SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is Believing Jesus' Words a Work?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 Next Page )
PosterThread
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi again all,



Logic, you said


"One must choose to belive,"


The Lord Jesus said to those who had asked Him if He was the Christ


"...ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you." - John 10:26(KJV)


Next He said His sheep do hear His voice, and that His Father gave them to Him.





Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/4 19:19Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
ChrisJD wrote:
Quote:
"One must choose to belive,"

The Lord Jesus said to those who had asked Him if He was the Christ

"...ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you." - John 10:26(KJV)

[b]John 10:26-27[/b] [color=990000]But you believe not, because you are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
[b]:27[/b] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:[/color]

If they would hear HIS voice, they would be HIS sheep.
Therefore, if they would hear HIS voice, they would belive.
If it was not for pride, prejudice, and for their false assumetions of who the Messiah should be, and from a determination not to believe, they would be HIS sheep.

Quote:
Next He said His sheep do hear His voice, and that His Father gave them to Him.

By the hearing from the Father and learning of the truth, is the way that the Father gives them to Him.
[b]John 6:45[/b] [color=990000]It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Everyone then, who hears from the Father and is learning the truth, is coming to Me.[/color]

 2008/1/4 23:03Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi Logic, thank you for writing back.


Logic, you said,


"If they would hear HIS voice, they would be HIS sheep."




The Lord Jesus said,


[b][color=660033] My sheep hear my voice...[/color][/b]

- John 10:27(KJV)




Logic you said,


"If it was not for pride, prejudice, and for their false assumetions of who the Messiah should be, and from a determination not to believe, they would be HIS sheep."




The Lord Jesus said,



[b][color=660033]...ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep,... [/color][/b]

- John 10:26(KJV)




The word translated because, according to Strong's is


G1063
γάρ
gar
gar
A primary particle; properly assigning a reason (used in argument, explanation or intensification; often with other particles): - and, as, because (that), but, even, for indeed, no doubt, seeing, then, therefore, verily, what, why, yet.



Again, Logic, you said


"...if they would hear HIS voice, they would belive."




The Lord Jesus said,


[b][color=660033]He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.[/color][/b]


- John 8:47(KJV)



John also wrote,


"He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [i]even[/i] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."


- John 1:11-13(KJV)


Logic, you said,


"By the hearing from the Father and learning of the truth, is the way that the Father gives them to Him."



The Lord Jesus said,


[b][color=660033] But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me... [/color][/b]


- John 6:36-37(KJV)



The Lord Jesus also said of His disciples


[b][color=660033] I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. [/color][/b]


He also said


[b][color=660033]"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live."[/color][/b]


- John 5:25(KJV)


and...


[b][color=660033]""For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [i]them[/i]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will."[/color][/b]


- John 5:21(KJV)




Thanks again,


Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/5 3:22Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
ChrisJD wrote:
Hi Logic, thank you for writing back.
Logic, you said,
Quote:
"If they would hear HIS voice, they would be HIS sheep."

The Lord Jesus said,

[b][color=660033] My sheep hear my voice...[/color][/b]- John 10:27(KJV)
Logic you said,
Quote:
"If it was not for pride, prejudice, and for their false assumetions of who the Messiah should be, and from a determination not to believe, they would be HIS sheep."

The Lord Jesus said,
[b][color=660033]...ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep,... [/color][/b]- John 10:26(KJV)
The word translated because, according to Strong's is
G1063
γάρ
gar
gar
A primary particle; properly assigning a reason (used in argument, explanation or intensification; often with other particles): - and, as, because (that), but, even, for indeed, no doubt, seeing, then, therefore, verily, what, why, yet.
Again, Logic, you said
Quote:
"...if they would hear HIS voice, they would belive."

The Lord Jesus said,
[b][color=660033]He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.[/color][/b]- John 8:47(KJV)
John also wrote,

"He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [i]even[/i] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God."- John 1:11-13(KJV)
Logic, you said,
Quote:
"By the hearing from the Father and learning of the truth, is the way that the Father gives them to Him."

The Lord Jesus said,
[b][color=660033] But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me... [/color][/b]- John 6:36-37(KJV)
The Lord Jesus also said of His disciples

[b][color=660033] I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. [/color][/b]

He also said
[b][color=660033]"Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live."[/color][/b]- John 5:25(KJV)
and...
[b][color=660033]""For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [i]them[/i]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will."[/color][/b]- John 5:21(KJV)

Thanks again,
Chris

So, you agree that if they would hear HIM they would believe and be His sheep.

Thanx for reiterating.

 2008/1/5 10:40Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi Logic,


"Jesus answered and said unto them,


[b][color=660033]This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. [/color][/b]"

- John 6:29(KJV)





[b][color=660033]Why do ye not understand my speech? [i]even[/i] because ye cannot hear my word. [/color][/b]


- John 8:43(KJV)



In answer to your question, no.



Take care for now,


Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/5 10:59Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
ChrisJD wrote:
Hi Logic,


"Jesus answered and said unto them,


[b][color=660033]This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent. [/color][/b]"- John 6:29(KJV)

Yes, to believe on HIM is the work.
Quote:
Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. -John 8:43(KJV)

In answer to your question, no.

Take care for now,

You quote the same Scriptures as I do, but, you still say no, How is that?

Are you implying that it is God who rejects man instead of man rejecting GOD?

 2008/1/7 11:53Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi Logic,


I guess we read or understand these passages differently.



Take care,



Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/7 20:15Profile









 Re: Is Believing Jesus' Words a Work?


Hi ChrisJD and Logic,

I wonder if you both can see the [u]same[/u] interpretation of who is doing 'the work', if I re-arrange the clauses of the sentence construction?

[i]that ye believe on him whom he hath sent, is the work of God[/i]


If we put this into the past tense, it might be even clearer.

[i]that ye believe on him whom he hath sent, was the work of God[/i]


Or, we could try:

[i]that ye believed on him whom he has sent, is the work of God[/i]


Okay.... try this...

[i]The work of God, is that ye believe on him whom he has sent[/i]


Lastly, following in the thoughts conveyed around English grammar in the thread 'Presenting the Apostrophe', 'the work of God' can be written as [i]God's work[/i].

Now, the original would read:

This is (or, It is) God's work, that ye believe (or [i]to believe[/i]) on Him whom He hath sent.


In other words, if there is any 'work of believing', [u]God does it all for us[/u].

This is in accordance with other aspects of the gospel, such as 'the gift of God is eternal life' (Rom 6:23) and 'not of works, lest any man should boast' (Eph 2:9)

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; [i]it is[/i] the gift of God,


I think we have to imagine a conversation with someone we know very well.

Logic, let me put this to you... When you give your wife some information she needs, so that she can carry out a task you wish her to do, does she have to [u]work[/u] at believing you are telling her the truth, and that she will find things just as you said they would be?

In other words, the context of your speech to your wife, is that you are already both assured of your existence, and of your knowledge of each other's hearts. These parameters are originally patterned for us regarding our relationship to God, in Hebrews 11:6, as the basis for consciously approaching God at all.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, that if [i]believing[/i] (or [i]faith[/i]) is 'the work', then we should all be exhausted by every relationship into which we enter, which requires a response from us, or, to which we find ourselves desiring to respond.

Much as you find it tempting to entertain this possibility, there is much in personal experience (therefore), which militates against drawing such a conclusion.

The explanation for the truth that faith is not a work, mnay lie in the [color=0000FF]spiritual nature of true communication[/color] between God and His creatures, and between creatures themselves.

 2008/1/8 9:06
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi Logic,

I guess we read or understand these passages differently.
Take care,
Chris

Are you implying that it is God who rejects man instead of man rejecting GOD?

 2008/1/8 11:49Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

dorcas wrote:

Hi ChrisJD and Logic,

I wonder if you both can see the [u]same[/u] interpretation of who is doing 'the work', if I re-arrange the clauses of the sentence construction?
[i]that ye believe on him whom he hath sent, is the work of God[/i]
If we put this into the past tense, it might be even clearer.
[i]that ye believe on him whom he hath sent, was the work of God[/i]

Or, we could try:

[i]that ye believed on him whom he has sent, is the work of God[/i]

Okay.... try this...

[i]The work of God, is that ye believe on him whom he has sent[/i]

Lastly, following in the thoughts conveyed around English grammar in the thread 'Presenting the Apostrophe', 'the work of God' can be written as [i]God's work[/i].

Now, the original would read:

This is (or, It is) God's work, that ye believe (or [i]to believe[/i]) on Him whom He hath sent.

In other words, if there is any 'work of believing', [u]God does it all for us[/u].

Or we can read it in context of the previous verse.
[b]John 6:28[/b] [color=990000]Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?[/color]

This would make sence for the responce to be:
"that ye believe on him whom he hath sent, is the work of God"

Quote:
Logic, let me put this to you... When you give your wife some information she needs, so that she can carry out a task you wish her to do, does she have to work at believing you are telling her the truth, and that she will find things just as you said they would be?

Believing is an action, verb.
All actions are works in one way or another.

Quote:
I guess what I'm trying to say is, that if believing (or faith) is 'the work', then we should all be exhausted by every relationship into which we enter, which requires a response from us, or, to which we find ourselves desiring to respond.


Is your marriage exhausting?

Lets just face it, in contect of John 6:28, the only way to read John 6:29 is "that ye believe on him whom he hath sent, is the work of God"

 2008/1/8 12:01Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy