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 Re: Is Believing Jesus' Words a Work?


Hi Logic,

I happened to spy this just before it fell of the front page in Devotional Thoughts. It may help you to see where not just Phillip gets ideas about Christ being 'born' in us.


The 'Bethlehem' of the Son of God

‘O, Come to My Heart, Lord Jesus’

[b]Galatians[/b] 1:15, 16; [b]4:19[/b]

Every man is meant to be the ‘Bethlehem’ of the Son of God by the regenerative power of Redemption. Just as the historic Son of God became Incarnate in the Virgin Mary – “that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God” – so the Son of God is formed in the life of the individual saint by the supernatural grace of God (Gal. 4:19).

Are we willing to submit to the ‘new man’ that is formed in us until our natural life is transfigured by His personal indwelling? It has nothing to do with our eternal salvation; it has everything to do with our temporal value to God. All most of us are concerned about is being saved from hell only and being put right for heaven. But there is something infinitely grander than that. We are given the marvellous chance of give up our right to ourselves to Jesus Christ so that we may become the devoted bondslaves of God Who saves us so supernaturally.


[i]~ Oswald Chambers, Still Higher For His Highest, December 25th[/i]

 2008/1/2 18:27
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi again Logic, I hope you are doing well. It is good to remember that the people we are typing to are people and not ideas or arguments.


About this in regards to Galatians 4:19 again,


You said "It is implyed."


I disagree. Verses 11 and 20 seem to say he was rather concerned about the standing of their faith, not whether character was being formed in them? Where is that, the matter of character, even being discussed? Verse 17 talks about those who were zealously affecting them and verse puts it out the issue plainly:


"Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?"



What does any of that have to do with character?


Logic, this was given as a refrence to point to the language of birth being used in regards to Christ.



Also, about fruit,


"John 14:16 is specificly speeking of our works of/from faith that HE calls fruit.
Not wine."



Is that the point Logic? I do not mean this in a condescending way, but this is really silly. Do you want to argue over where fruit comes from? a branch or a vine?



About John 6:29.


He said the work, of God, was to believe on Him.

He said God gives them(v 37), draws them(v44), and teaches them(v45).


"...but it is up tho man to descide to listen."


Those are your words.




Take care for now,


Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/2 18:38Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

It means, until Christ reigns wholly in your heart, soul & attitude; until you wholly and entirely embrace his doctrines; and conform your whole life to, and until you become wholly overwhelmed with his spirit.
Not until He is born in you.
They are already saved, HE is already in them.

You never explain why HE should be "born in them" if HE is already in them?

 2008/1/2 22:07Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi Logic,


"You never explain why HE should be "born in them" if HE is already in them?"


Right, I think I know what you are saying here. What I was looking at is that the language is used at all. If it was to happen [b]again[/b], that means it had to have happened [b]at least once[/b] to begin with.



You asked initially,


"Show me where Jesus is ever born again in us."


So this was in response to that.



You may be right about this and it may not even be refering to Christ being born in believers. I do not know.


Robertson's Word Pictures says in regards to the phrase [b]untill Christ be formed in you[/b]...

"This figure is the embryo developing into the child."


Elsewhere the scripture refers to being born of incorruptible seed. That would seem to be a similar picture as what springs from the seed continues to grow untill it is fully developed.




Hope this helps,


Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/2 22:37Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Elsewhere the scripture refers to being born of incorruptible seed. That would seem to be a similar picture as what springs from the seed continues to grow untill it is fully developed.

It says that [b]WE[/b] are born of that incorruptible Seed.
The Seed is not born in us.

 2008/1/3 10:37Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi again Logic,





Logic, do you think much about what others write to you?


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/3 17:37Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

I have two dogs. I've noticed that one of them can be very protective of her food and acts like it is something to be defended. She certainly doesn't act like she wants to share it with the other dog. Pretty much the only sound she makes while eating is to growl if you bother her.


We shouldn't be like that should we? Unless we only view our food as something to defend?




Chris




_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/1/3 18:06Profile
Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
ChrisJD wrote:

We shouldn't be like that should we? Unless we only view our food as something to defend

We shouldn't make things up that are not true, like Jesus being born again.
That is herretical.
Even to say that HE was born again in us, it blures the line of truth.
Nowhere does it say that HE was.
If Paul or any other of the Apostles meant that Jesus was "born again" in the christian, or even "birthed", they would have explicitly said it.
I am serious of keeping the truth of the Scripture PURE.
The Scriptures are our food, they are something to defend.
I don't like people muddying the pureness of it.

This could go to another topic if one wants to discuss it more so we may get back to the main toppic of this thread.

 2008/1/4 12:09Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, once again we have 2 people standing on either side of a door argueing over if it an exit or an entrance. jimp

 2008/1/4 14:17Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Believing Jesus' Words [b]is[/b] a work, but not a work of the law.
One must choose to belive, and acting upon HIS words proove that one does believ.
The acting upon HIS words are the works of faith.

What are Jesus' Words?
You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Love is a verb, work is a verb, Believing Jesus' Words [b]is[/b] a work.

 2008/1/4 14:37Profile





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