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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : I'm not joking... who do you believe killed Jesus?

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 Re:

For God so loved the world [u][i][b] HE GAVE [/b][/i][/u]his only begotten son, that whosoever believes in Him will not parish but have eternal everlasting Life.


A very Merry and Blessed Christmas to everyone!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did ;-)

 2007/12/21 16:50
psalm1
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

dorcas, my point in all that was.....david and saul both being priests and yet it would seem to me sauls behavior would have definatly justified him being killed by david.
now compare that to the priesthood of Jesus and how the Jews[priests] could have stoned Jesus but the death of Jesus was left to the gentiles.
In like manner the death of saul was left to the gentiles.
Soooooo my guestion is........since both instances had an opportunity for a priest to kill a priest, was anything or principle invoked that is not mentioned in the bible?



David

 2007/12/24 19:49Profile









 Re: I'm not joking... who do you believe killed Jesus?


psalm1 wrote:

Quote:
dorcas, my point in all that was.....david and saul both being priests and yet it would seem to me sauls behavior would have definatly justified him being killed by david.
now compare that to the priesthood of Jesus and how the Jews[priests] could have stoned Jesus but the death of Jesus was left to the gentiles.
In like manner the death of saul was left to the gentiles.
Soooooo my guestion is........since both instances had an opportunity for a priest to kill a priest, was anything or principle invoked that is not mentioned in the bible?

Hi David,

I've been thinking about your question and again am not sure how to answer it.

First, it's interesting you think of David and Saul as priests, when they most certainly were kings (rather) and prophets. In their day, the priests were of Levi, having started in Aaron's family when first established.

However, I notice that in the parallels offered by the two narratives, it was the greater who was threatened by the lesser and in some ways, Saul represents the established order (the monarchy corresponding to the scribes and Pharisees), and David represents God's free man. Both David as king-in-waiting, and Jesus, speak to us of the mercy which resides with the true power base.

In a way, Saul being slain by the enemy also speaks of how the man of flesh (or 'our old man') does not overcome... whereas David was the conquering hero naturally speaking, as Jesus was spiritually speaking.

Am I getting anywhere close to what you're musing?

 2007/12/29 0:32
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

""... whereas David was the conquering hero naturally speaking, as Jesus was spiritually speaking""

This is the difference in old testament and new testament salvation. By their works and keeping of the Law, they were saved by God's Mercy. But, still did not have life.

By or believing, Grace by faith gives us true salvation that is a new creature in Christ Jesus.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

The same went for Christs death, He died in the Flesh, but the Spirit is Life. Death came as David, Flesh, Resurrection came through the Spirit given to the Flesh. It really does not matter who killed Jesus, it was the Father's Will and ultimately it was God who Killed His own Son to get you and me.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/12/29 1:27Profile
psalm1
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

dorcas, Yes Jesus most certainly was priest before his crucifixon. The priesthood was transferred to him by John the baptist,who was the rightfull priest,not ciaphas,through baptism [john's priesthood was from zacharias].
Without this order the redemption is void.

David's office was triune[prophet priest king]
Sauls was only prophet,king

It helps to look at it in reverse[the way I look at most everything]
Start in heb. and start walking towards the old testiment.
Jesus wasnt pointing to anything they ,the priesthood were pointing to him.
Everytime the priest went into the holy of holies and sprinkled the blood on the mercy seat,he was pointing to jesus,not visa versa.
Jesus officiated his own sacrifice and presented his own blood.

Wow I just saw something....The reason the gentiles killed him is because in the sin offering it was not the priest but the ,"one that sinned' or the one that brought the sin offering that killed the animal.

The priest didnt slay it it was the job of the "sinner".
The priest took over at that point.
[tthe gentiles killed Jesus, then the Jews took over his body,[sacrifice]
It was expediant that only jewish hands touch the sacrifice?

Do you agree?

David

 2007/12/29 11:22Profile









 Re: I'm not joking... who do you believe killed Jesus?


Hi David

Quote:
David's office was triune[prophet priest king]

I'm missing something here... in that I know David offered worship and praise to God as a type of the worship of New Covenant believers who are made both priests and kings to God, and... he ate the shewbread once ... but... how do you figure him as a priest in the Old Covenant set-up?

Another point is that while we recognise him as a prophet, he did not recognise himself as a prophet, and Nathan filled that office.

One thing I've wondered is whether that was his son Nathan. I've no idea how one checks it out.

Quote:
Wow I just saw something....The reason the gentiles killed him is because in the sin offering it was not the priest but the ,"one that sinned' or the one that brought the sin offering that killed the animal.

The priest didnt slay it it was the job of the "sinner".
The priest took over at that point.
[tthe gentiles killed Jesus, then the Jews took over his body,[sacrifice]

I'd like to chew this a little longer, but I sense that you're onto something I didn't have in my mind when I started the thread.

Interestingly, it plays into those waking moments to which I referred in a post last week, about which I still intend to post. But do keep your thoughts coming. I do completely believe that Jesus was the sacrifice for the whole of mankind [i]at the time that He died[/i] and that [i]He knew this also[/i] (John 10) [i]regardless of what things may have looked like on the ground to Jews, at the time of His death[/i].


 2007/12/29 13:10









 Re: I'm not joking ... who do you believe killed Jesus ?


David, you said

Quote:
it was not the priest but the ,"one that sinned' or the one that brought the sin offering that killed the animal.

I wonder if you would kindly post the scripture to support this statement, please? (And if it appears in more than one place, indicate at least one other.)

Sorry... I should have asked earlier. I'm not sure where to find it.

Thanks. :-)

 2007/12/29 14:05
psalm1
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

dorcas, lev4;29

David

 2007/12/29 18:00Profile
psalm1
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

[i]i[/i]

Quote:

dorcas wrote:

Hi David
Quote:
David's office was triune[prophet priest king]

I'm missing something here... in that I know David offered worship and praise to God as a type of the worship of New Covenant believers who are made both priests and kings to God, and... he ate the shewbread once ... but... how do you figure him as a priest in the Old Covenant set-up?

Another point is that while we recognise him as a prophet, he did not recognise himself as a prophet, and Nathan filled that office.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dorcas, two things that validate Davids prophetic annointing 1] he prophesied in the psalms {just by his participation in the written word,psalms,he will forever be cannonized as prophet.]
2] He prophecied correctly over goliath.

Remember when saul offered burnt offerings[acting as priest] God striped the kingdom from him

Later we read ,possibly in 2sam, david also offered up burnt offerings
David acted correctly in the office of priest.
Saul was in forbidden territory.
Only a priest can offer burnt offerings.


David

 2007/12/29 23:15Profile









 Re: I'm not joking... who do you believe killed Jesus?


From my post at the end of p6

Quote:
Further to my last three posts, I want to put a note here that when I awoke this morning, there was more understanding coming to my spirit from the Lord, which I will try to write when I have words.

To boil this down to a few words, what I was realising is how seriously significant it is that Paul related 'faith' to Abraham's pre-circumcision state. Abraham is the Jews' primary link with the Gentiles - their Adamic nature. This is what Jesus came to address: sin.

Associated with this realisation was the way the elders and chief priests willingly said 'His blood be upon us and on our children'. They understood something about their very real participation in His forthcoming death as a fact, even if they didn't understand He was their eternal sacrifice. But both before His death and after Pentecost, there were those who recognised how He fulfilled scripture, and they [u]believed[/u] on Him.

I get the sense from the New Testament, that there was a profound wishing that He had not had to die - from both Peter and John initially. Later, Paul says 'if they had known'... as if has come to understand that it was not possible 'they' could have known because [i]that was the way God's plan had to be outworked[/i].

Interesting at the feet of whom Paul lays this charge:

(Young) 1 Corinthians 2:8
which no one of [u]the rulers of this age[/u] did know, for if they had known, the Lord of the glory they would not have crucified;


Now, I wonder if he is saying obliquely, that the Jews did know? In a way, that's not important. Afterwards, by the Holy Spirit, they could be convinced of sin and righteousness and judgement. (John 16).



David,

Your observation that the 'sinner' had to slay the sacrifice, fits perfectly into the truth that in Jesus, 'our old man' was also crucified.

This was the uncircumcised as well as the circumcised, since Jesus Himself was there as a Jew, dying for Jews, as much as Man, dying for men.

 2007/12/30 18:11





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