SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : What do you think about Pres. Bush and this War in Iraq?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 Next Page )
PosterThread
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 What do you think about Pres. Bush and this War in Iraq?

[img]https://www.sermonindex.net/images/forum/2004/may/featured_news.gif[/img]

----

How many of you know that Pres. Bush acknowledges outright that he's born again and saved by the blood of Jesus Christ? ... How many of you are aware of a book called "The Faith of George W. Bush", and that while he was still governor of Texas he had a dream (If I remember correctly) that something terrible was going to happen to America, and that he had to be president when it did? ... How many of you are aware that Pres. Bush believes himself "called by God" to be president, and that he stated this along with the telling of his dream, to a few men of the cloth, amongst them Billy and Franklin Graham and James Robison, while he was yet still governor of Texas? ...

I personally believe that our current President is born again ... I also believe that although a Christian, President Bush has put American in this pre-emptive Iraqi war more out of vengence (which belongs solely to the Lord) for Saddam attempting to assassinate his dad, than anything else ... But what I find most intriguing is that whether soveriegnly or permissively, God has appointed/allowed him to office, so his being there apparently fits into God's divine plan ... God knew that Pres. Bush was going to drive America into this Iraqi quagmire ...

Why do you think God has allowed this (or has in effect orchestrated this situation), and how do you think He will use this war now, and into our future, to His own glorious purpose in our world, our country, and His Church?


 2004/5/25 13:14Profile
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: What do you think about Pres. Bush and this War in Iraq?

The following statements are only personal and maybe not intended for those with a different calling than mine. :-)

The deeper i grow in Christ- the less I care one iota about the politics, etc... of this world- this earthly kingdom. I am always reminded of how the Jews thought the Messiah would come to overthrow the government and he would be some big king that all could see and obey. He didn't come to do an outward thing- but an inward thing. This is why they didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah.

Also, we are a country full of lukewarmness and compromise- why not have a president who fits this mold also. While many in this country gloat over the fact that 'our president is a Christian'- they are having the time of their lives in lukewarm heaven. Lead by example- hmmmmm.

The state of this country is in apostacy- the Lord has allowed what looks to be 'good and true' to be in rule because that is what even christians want. They want a guy who claims all the right things and heads up what's on their agendas.

I am so tired of this right wing conservative christianity in America- it has become one-in the same.

Quote:
American Christianity has so much of our culture and philosophy mixed with it. It almost seems to be powerless in the face of our social ills.

The Gospel of Jesus Christ was far more confrontive and life changing than our gospel. Our gospel is a combination of the "American Dream", the “Declaration of Independence”, the "Historical Church" and some selected teachings of Jesus all rolled into one pleasing palatable gift offered to our confused and hurting world......



This explains so much. Our country- with a president like this- is content to sleep with a "christian' president at the wheel. I am wondering if it would be more beneficial for the kingdom of God for us to have a morally corrupt president because at least it keeps the christians on their toes.

This presidency has allowed many people to fall asleep thinking that all is well. I see the Lord allowing this to actually let the people fall into deeper apostacy.

Time will tell. I am personally not concerned or care too much about this government. I am a foreigner in this world. :-) I do not consider myself an American- only a follower of Christ. I only pray that the Lord's will will be done on earth as well as in this country. Come Lord Jesus!

In Him, chanin


_________________
Chanin

 2004/5/25 14:10Profile
rocklife
Member



Joined: 2004/4/1
Posts: 323
usa

 Re:

Moreofhim, I totally agree with you. That is basically how I see things also.



_________________
Jina

 2004/5/25 15:03Profile
matthew
Member



Joined: 2004/4/22
Posts: 57


 Re:

You mentioned the poorness of the faith of the president (you must know that when it comes to politics and political figures I am almost completely knowlegeless)

What are some things that the president has done that would be "bad fruit" that would make you question his faith? (not refuting your point, just asking for clarification) If discussing this is gosip, ignore it.

matthew


_________________
matthew bauer

 2004/5/25 15:14Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re:


(caps for clarity)

SISTER CHANIN YOU STATED:



"The deeper I grow in Christ- the less I care one iota about the politics, etc... of this world- this earthly kingdom. "



WITH ME IT'S THE EXACT OPPOSITE ... I'M THOUROUGHLY FASCINATED BY THE FACT THAT EARTHLY GOVERNMENTS, POWERS AND PRINCIPALITIES ARE ALL SUBJECT TO OUR LORDS WHIMS, WHETHER HE RAISES THEM UP, KNOCKS THEM DOWN OR USES THEM AGAINST ONE ANOTHER (AS I SEE HIM DOING RIGHT NOW) TO BRING FORTH THE MEND OF THIS CRACK IN INFINITY THAT WE CALL TIME, BY WINDING DOWN THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES, AND THE RULE OF SATAN IN THIS WORLD, TO THE BIRTHING OF HIS KINGDOM WITHIN A NEW HEAVENS AND NEW EARTH.

LIKE OUR OLD TESTAMENT COUNTERPARTS LISTED BELOW OUR JOB IS TO WATCH FOR THE SIGNS OF HIS COMING, TO PRAY, AND TO WARN:

WATCH!

Isa.21 [5] Prepare the table, watch in the watchtower, eat, drink: arise, ye princes, and anoint the shield. [6] For thus hath the Lord said unto me, Go, set a watchman, let him declare what he seeth.


Isa.62 [6] I have set watchmen upon thy walls, O Jerusalem, which shall never hold their peace day nor night: ye that make mention of the LORD, keep not silence,


Jer.6 [17] Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.


Jer.31 [6] For there shall be a day, that the watchmen upon the mount Ephraim shall cry, Arise ye, and let us go up to Zion unto the LORD our God.


Ezek.3 [17] Son of man, I have made thee a watchman unto the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.


Ezek.33 [2] Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman: [6] But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand. [7] So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me.


WHAT ARE THE SIGNS I WATCH FOR?


Matt.24 [3] And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? [4] And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. [5] For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. [6] And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. [7] For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. [8] All these are the beginning of sorrows.


THE ABOVE SIGNS TO WATCH FOR ARE THOSE OF "THE BEGGINING OF SORROWS" WHICH I PERSONALLY BELIEVE WE'VE BEEN IN SINCE WW1 ... THESE SIGNS WILL CULMINATE, AND BEGIN TO SPILL OVER INTO THE SIGNS TO WATCH FOR OF "TRIBULATION" (BELOW) ... WHAT I WATCH FOR IS THE BEGINNING OF TRANSITION BETWEEN ABOVE AND BELOW ...


THE TRIBULATION:

[9] Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. [10] And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. [11] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. [12] And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13] But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. [14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.


THE GREAT TRIBULATION:

[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: [17] Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: [18] Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. [19] And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! [20] But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: [21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. [22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
[29] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [31] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. [32] Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: [33] So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. [34] Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. [35] Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. [36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. [37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, [39] And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. [40] Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.


HIS ADMONITION TO HIS CHURCH TO WATCH, PRAY AND BE COGNIZANT OF CURRENT EVENTS BECAUSE THEY MARK EVEN MORE THE EMINENCE OF HIS COMING:


Matt.24 [42] Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. [43] But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.


Matt.25 [13] Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


Mark.13 [33] Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. [34] For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. [35] Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: [37] And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.


Luke.12 [37] Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. [38] And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. [39] And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.


Luke.21 [36] Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.


1Cor.16 [13] Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.


Eph.6 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;


Col.4 [2] Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving;


1Thes.5 [6] Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.


2Tim.4 [5] But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.


1Pet.4 [7] But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.


Rev.16 [15] Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.


Eph. [15] See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, [16] Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.


PRES. BUSH MAY NOT BE A LOT OF PEOPLES DEFINITION OF A CHRISTIAN, BUT HE'S THE FIRST PRESIDENT I'VE EVER HEARD UNASHAMEDLY UTTER THAT CHRIST SAVED HIM ... WE ARE LIVING IN A TIME WHERE ALL THREE ABRAHAMIC ORIGINED RELIGIONS (JUDAISM, ISLAM AND CHRISTIANITY) ARE ALL CONVERGING TO A FUTURE, POTENTIALLY CATACLYSMIC CLASH ... OUR PAST PRESIDENTS HAVE ALWAYS KEPT CHRISTIANITY OUT OF THE MIX WHILE ATTEMPTING TO JUGGLE JUDAISM AND ISLAM ... PRESIDENT BUSH HAS LIT THE FUSE OF THE AFOREMENTIONED POWDER KEG, BY ADDING CHRISTIANITY TO THIS MIX IN CLEAR ALLIANCE WITH JUDAISM ...

I SEE THIS CLEARLY AS GOD'S HAND AND TIMING IN BRINGING US ALL TO THE BRINK OF TRIBULATION.

 2004/5/25 16:23Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: What do you think about Pres. Bush and this War in Iraq?

Quote:

How many of you know that Pres. Bush acknowledges outright that he's born again and saved by the blood of Jesus Christ?



While president Bush might have genuienly become a Christian sometime in the past, and was truly born again, I personally doubt he is currently living his life under the lordship of Jesus Christ. Although I will not say this about every political leader, it is difficult for me to imagine that a person who occupies such a high office in the world is a Christian.

Obtaining such an office did not come without much political manipulation, exalting of the self, putting others down "unashamedly" as if they were but mere dogs. Bush just didn't wake up one morning, say he thought it'd be a good idea to run for President, then alerted this fact to the world and the general public through TV advertisments, and then just sat back and got elected. Nor does staying in such an office not come without the same political manipulation, exlating the self, and putting others down. Otherwise, a lot of folks who are wanting his job would have easily obtained it by now through the same methods that such offices are obtained, all while he sat around and did nothing.

I believe Bush is there because God has ordained it, and frankly, he seems like the man we needed as a country since 9/11. I believe Bush might have geniuenly been born again at one point in time. But just being such does not make you a Christian. A Christian is one who follows the Lord. When asking if somebody is a Christian, the question should not simply be "Have they been born again?" Rather, the question should be "Are they following the Lord?" Many who have been born again have since abandoned the faith. Their past acceptance of Christ will gain them nothing on the day of judgment should they not be found faithful when the Master of the house returns from His trip.

A dear sister in the Lord I know says the Lord has laid it upon her heart to pray daily for president Bush, because she says, he needs the Lord.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2004/5/25 17:28Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4821
Savannah TN

 Re:

First as Rahman stated:

Quote:
WITH ME IT'S THE EXACT OPPOSITE ... I'M THOUROUGHLY FASCINATED BY THE FACT THAT EARTHLY GOVERNMENTS, POWERS AND PRINCIPALITIES ARE ALL SUBJECT TO OUR LORDS WHIMS, WHETHER HE RAISES THEM UP, KNOCKS THEM DOWN OR USES THEM AGAINST ONE ANOTHER (AS I SEE HIM DOING RIGHT NOW) TO BRING FORTH THE MEND OF THIS CRACK IN INFINITY THAT WE CALL TIME, BY WINDING DOWN THE TIMES OF THE GENTILES, AND THE RULE OF SATAN IN THIS WORLD, TO THE BIRTHING OF HIS KINGDOM WITHIN A NEW HEAVENS AND NEW EARTH.



I agree with this thought as long as one is only watching for the signs and protecting the sheep. The question is: are we looking for man to solve the world's problems or do we seek to discern how God is working?

Secondly, I believe the war was instigated to bring about economic objectives. Zignev Bresizinski wrote a book in I believe 1997, called: The Grand Chess Match. In this book he outlines strategies that would promote world wide domination of economic and political systems by the United States. If one were to read it now you would see a remarkable coincidence of historic facts that have occurred in 5 or 6 years that parralell this book.

Thirdly, if you were to read a book written by Gregg Palast, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy, you will get a glimpse of how the Bush family has ascended to power in this century. Remember Daddy Bush was head of the CIA before he became president. Grandpa Bush did business with the Nazi government before and during the WW2.

"Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world [b]makes[/b] himself an enemy of God." James 4:4

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2004/5/25 18:17Profile
Gideons
Member



Joined: 2003/9/16
Posts: 474
Virginia

 Re: Interesting discussion

As a Political Scientist of sorts, it's rather interesting.

Since I live in the D.C. area, what I see is bothersome to me, at least in terms of some of his appointees. I believe our current president is a man of faith, but much of what goes on is playing the part (again by some of his appointees).

I also know that there oftentimes prayer meetings in the White House and other government officials as well. The current chaplain of the Senate is a very Godly man, as is his assistant.

The work in the political arena is much like the church in the U.S. Much of it is pure fluff, "Having a form of Godliness and denying the power thereof" (2 Timothy 3:5). Then there are a remnant of true believers, who sincerely follow Christ and aren't in it for political favors or mammom of some sort or another.

As to how this fits in prophetically, I'll save that for some other folks to discuss. I do believe we should pray for our political leaders and am confident we do have some godly leaders. Perhaps not a huge number (i.e. likely not a high number) but we do have some true followers of Christ. That's reassuring to me on some level but surely we should pray more.


_________________
Ed Pugh

 2004/5/25 20:29Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Well, here I thought picking the 'lounge' to moderate was a safe bet ;-)

My thoughts...hmmmm.

First off, brother Rahman, go easy on the all CAPS, it's considered 'shouting' in Internet parlance, just a heads up.

I am a 'Religious right flaming conservative' of the school of Rush Limbaugh...O.K. not totally.
I used to be. So I am totally unoffended.

Politics? I grew weary of the 'fluff' quite awhile ago, so much rhetoric. Was it right to go after Saddam? Yep. Terrorists? Yep.
Is President Bush a Christian? I believe so, not as in 'former' but presently. I don't think his faith is for show, don't have any reason to doubt his sincerity. Has anyone read the aforementioned book? Just curious. I do understand that he reads his bible everyday and prays.

Remember he is the President not a preacher and is also limited in his power by Congress and the Legislature. I would have bigger bones to pick with a lot of them frankly.

I am also thankful that it was him in office when 911 happened.

"Issues" As a Christian I don't think it is to difficult to decide which 'side' of things we should fall on, political party's don't have any bearing on my decisions, they just happen to lean more toward one side. But my loyalty's are to the Lord. I don't get bogged down in all the rest of what is being 'said'.

But world events...Oh, you bet. As was pointed out, we are to discern the times. I do hope we are keeping an eye on what is going on in Israel and the surrounding countries. It seems to me that this world is sitting on a powder keg that is just waiting to blow, and there is an awful lot of people who would love nothing more than to see us Christians, Jews and Americans dead. I believe persecution is coming, it's just a matter of time. I hope we are ready for it...


_________________
Mike Balog

 2004/5/25 22:52Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: What do you think about Pres. Bush and this War in Iraq?


Bro. Mike, sorry about the caps ... I've got to figure out how to use "bold" when I post.


((( Bro. Jeff said:

I agree with this thought as long as one is only watching for the signs and protecting the sheep. The question is: are we looking for man to solve the world's problems or do we seek to discern how God is working?)))


I watch the signs only to warn both the saved and the unsaved ... And yes, oh yes, to seek to discern how God is working, this is the most fascinating part of it all since we have an entire book that gives us the signs to look for before hand ... And as to looking for a man to solve the worlds problems ... Yes I look for that, but only in the since of percieving who the man of perdition is ... For it is foretold by the prophet's of old that the anti-christ will come to power by brokering peace into a world on the verge of unprecedented choas ... WWIII ...


(((Bro. Mike said:

But world events...Oh, you bet. As was pointed out, we are to discern the times. I do hope we are keeping an eye on what is going on in Israel and the surrounding countries. It seems to me that this world is sitting on a powder keg that is just waiting to blow, and there is an awful lot of people who would love nothing more than to see us Christians, Jews and Americans dead. I believe persecution is coming, it's just a matter of time. I hope we are ready for it... )))


Amen ... I asked the question about president Bush and the war in Iraq for the reasons Bro. Mike stated above. The following is an excerpt from an essay I wrote, gleaned from a letter to Pres. Bush, shortly after 9/11:


A SCENARIO FOR WWIII

While ferverently praying concerning the horrors of 9/11/01 I heard the Lord our God say, "Is this you I hear O America. My wayward son, my second prodigal. You who have erred in My Christianity, the same as thine elder brother Israel in their worship of Me. Is this you I finally hear calling, God Bless Me, when you have turned your face from Me. Lip service you have offered upon My altar. Donning an outward vestige of My Godliness, but like white washed graves - inside you are full of decay. I thought I was dead to you, but in your time of travail you call? You have become an idolater, when I have told you that I am jealous, exacting exclusive devotion, and that you are to have no other gods before Me. Filthy mammon cannot save you from your reaping, nor your weapons of war. Only I can turn back the savage hand that strikes. Turn thine other cheek. Vengeance is mine, I shall repay"

But how can we, as a nation, turn the other cheek to such horrific events as took place on Sept.11? Even I, a man of God privy to His plan, am soulishly, nationalistically, requiring a like payment in blood. But the larger question is what do we chance to ignite in our fit of self-righteous indignation, when we remain blinded to the fact that the real war is spiritual, invisible, and incapable of being seen thru the eyes of intellectualism and emotionalism? We have forgotten God, and replaced Him with our faith in our wealth, and in our own military might. And now the mighty find ourselves uncovered of His divine protection, and allowed to be chastised by a plague of deadly gnats. If we truly recognized this ghastly event as a clarion call to repentance, we as a nation could take this as an opportunity of global spiritual leadership, exemplifying Christ, and "forgiving (this time) those who have trespassed against us". So that if it were to ever happen again, there would be no hardship in forming a global coalition amongst the free world, against terrorism. But we won't do this, for we are still obscure to the fact that our hands are far from clean internationally, and that it is because of OUR national sin(s) that God has disciplined us so harshly.

We as a nation now stand at the edge of the very self same precipice, that in the past we've so desperately pleaded the tiny state of Israel from which not to leap. And now we ourselves are about to make that jump, by massive retaliation for this unbearable wrong. I just pray that Pres. Bush, we American people, and our allies realize that once we're in free fall, there is no turning back! We Americans may soon choose to be the Satanic catalyst of the world crisis that will prepare the way of the AntiChrist. The third world conflict! For he is the man that comes to the fore with the perfect plan of peace that will quell this impending global destruction. At least for a time. -------

I am on the wall watching with great anticipation!


((( Bro. Mike you also said:

Is President Bush a Christian? I believe so, not as in 'former' but presently. I don't think his faith is for show, don't have any reason to doubt his sincerity. Has anyone read the aforementioned book? Just curious. I do understand that he reads his bible everyday and prays. )))

I believe him a Christian also ... And even though like all of us, he's prone to mistakes, even in the mistakes "all things work together for the good" ... God will get His glory out of it ... I've not read the book, but I watched an hour program with the author on C-Span's book channel, fascinating ...

I think all of us have to be careful of how we judge one anothers outward Christianity, because God is a reader of the heart ... David was a murderer and an adulterer, in constant repentance, but yet he was concidered a man after God's own heart .... Why? ... Because in Acts, even though imperfect, God said that He could rely on him to do what He wanted ... My prayers are with our President, and that he will do what it is that God wants done, even if it's to bring the world to the brink of WWIII, that His kingdom come, that His will be done ... Amen

 2004/5/26 9:53Profile





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy