You know, I'm not trying to argue with you, I'm just stating the fact that your views are not orthodox. Despite the fact that you feel strongly about this issue, the majority of Christian witness (ie. orthodoxy) over the past two thousand years is in opposition of the conclusion you have come to.

As I was considering this, among Christians there are really only three camps that you could call home, Oriental Orthodox fellowships (ie. coptics) who believe in something similar to Unitarianism, Oneness Pentecostals and Unitarians. Really the only one of these groups that fits into Western Protestant Christianity is the Oneness Pentecostals... and they are very much on the fringes.

This forum for the most part tries to keep the narrow road of biblical orthodoxy. Since most of the members of this forum are Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Baptists, Anglicans, Methodists etc, I've just got to be honest, you're going to be on the outside with a Unitarian viewpoint.

I really don't know how you can expect any different response than the one that you've gotten. You wouldn't walk into a Presbyterian seminary and proclaim that you hate reformed doctrine. You wouldn't walk into a Assemblies of God's church and state that tongues are a deception of the devil. You shouldn't expect to get a positive response coming to a forum that is probably better than 90% Trinitarian and claim that there is no Trinity and come away without any bruises.

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Ian Smith

Jesus makes it clear in John 14 who he is and who is in him.
He is the one whom we believe in and the one who we must obey, and that God the father has put all authority in the hands of Jesus.
If this teaching of unitarianism poisons just one of God's little one's.??!!!
you have a millstone to look forward to.
Please stop.
Have a great day.

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howard

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Matthew Miskiewicz

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Matthew Miskiewicz

Hi Nile, Are you saying that just two weeks ago you stopped believing in the Deity of Christ?

That you no longer believe that He was Creator God come in the flesh?

I'll wait for your answers.

He_Reigns,

Two weeks and a half weeks ago I first heard of non-trinitarianism. After a week (and enough reading to be a full-time job) I was convinced. I read articles and arguments till I had read everything I could think of and had looked at every verse I (or my friends) could think of. Since then, I have been the scripture only and am becoming convinced more each day that Jesus is the Son of God and not God the Son.

So you could say I stopped believing in the Deity of Christ about a week and a half ago.

Yes that is correct, I do not believe Jesus was Creator God come in the flesh.

The verses that talk about Jesus creating the world are referring to the messianic age. Look at Hebrews 1:2 and then Hebrews 2:5. John 1:3 isn't talking about Jesus, but the actual word of God, just like it says.
This is directly from the Geneva Bible:

1 In the beginning was that Word, and that Word was with God, and that Word was God. 2 This same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by it, and without it was made nothing that was made. 4 In it was life, and that life was the light of men.

Amazing isn't it? That the whole notion of the word in John 1:1-3 being Jesus just came about in the last 500 hundred years or so.

Thank you for the question.
Matt

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Matthew Miskiewicz

Let me give a point of clarification:

Jesus is not God in the flesh, but He does represent God in the flesh. He is the perfect image of God.

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Matthew Miskiewicz

Oh Matt, no I can't say it's amazing.
You must go into the Greek friend, please.
This is extremely important. If you make Jesus/The Logos anyone but GOD in the flesh, it is very crucial. I do want to talk to you about this.
You've read some things other than 'just' His Word and that is what has happened.
I know you mean well - but there is such an attack on the Body Of Christ right now, to turn brother against brother and make us question what His Word "really" says - it is the last days Matt - and we're ALL being affected in one way or another. I can admit that. Maybe my beliefs are staying the same, but my mood is being affected and I'm fighting that myself.

Would you consider looking into the Greek on this? I pray so. This is the foundational doctrine of our Salvation - and if we try to build another foundation - all that we build onto it will crumble.

Just for now - I'll leave this here for you to maybe see from the Strong's what the Greek says by the numbering. O.K.?

Joh 1:1 In1722 the beginning746 was2258 the3588 Word,3056 and2532 the3588 Word3056 was2258 with4314 God,2316 and2532 the3588 Word3056 was2258 God.2316
Joh 1:2 The same3778 was2258 in1722 the beginning746 with4314 God.2316
Joh 1:3 All things3956 were made1096 by1223 him;846 and2532 without5565 him846 was not3761 any thing1520 made1096 that3739 was made.1096


His Love.
Annie

Matt...reading your posts greatly saddens me. Here are some resources for you to check out:

[url=http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/TheHistoryOfTheTrinity.pdf]History
of the Trinity[/url]

[url=http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/TheIAMSayingsProveJesusToBeDivine.pdf]The "I AM" Saying of Jesus - written by a former Muslim (these convinced Him that God is a Trinity)[/url]

[url=http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/Deity_of_Jesus.pdf]The Deity of Jesus by Walter Martin[/url]

Norman Geisler on the Trinity:
[url=http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/Trinity1.pdf]Part 1[/url]
[url=http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/Trinity2.pdf]Part 2[/url]
[url=http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/Trinity3.pdf]Part 3[/url]
[url=http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/Trinity4.pdf]Part 4[/url]
[url=http://www.pinpointevangelism.com/Trinity5.pdf]Part 5[/url]

Matt, what do you do with the fact that ALL of the Early Church Fathers believed in the Trinity and in the Deity of Jesus. Many of these men were disciples of the apostles. Men like Polycarp, Papias, Ignatius and Clement of Rome. And then after them were men like Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Hermas, Hippolytus, Tertullian, etc. They were Greek and read the Greek as a first language. Some of them heard from the Apostles directly and the others heard from those who heard from the Apostles. The Deity of Christ or the Trinity is NOT some new doctrine. It has been believed since the BEGINNING brother. You have all of history to fight against. Pardon me for being blunt, but you seem to be treating this as if it is a conspiracy theory or something. I pray that you seek and search this out more brother and that God will reveal the truth to you.

Also, check out this page: [url=http://www.answering-islam.org/Who/index.html]Who Is Jesus?[/url]
God Bless...

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Kerrigan Skelly

Annie, thank you for your concern.

I do not believe like the JWs that Jesus was "a" god or like the Mormons that Jesus was just like God. I know that both times God is used it is the same God. But I think that the "word" is the actual word of the God, or the plan or reason or wisdom of God. Look at proverbs 8.
Here is what I believe on John 1:
[url=http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Olympus/5257/Beginning.htm]In the Beginning was the Word[/url]

I will look at the Greek, but what should I look for?

Thank you with love,
Matt

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Matthew Miskiewicz