Orm,God came to Adam and Eve and the end of the day and fellowshipped with them. Everything was absolutely perfect from our human standpoint. God loved it as did the humans. Jesus came and now the people got a glimpse of what Adam and Eve fouled up. I say glimpsed because their environment was so defiled by the consequences of sin which could easily blind a person to who/what they were seeing, hence Jesus resorted to miracles in an attempt to break through this fog that enveloped them in their blindness. Before Jesus left he promised his Spirit to his children 'who will lead you into all truth'. He also considered the Spirit's indwelling superior to his physical presense on this earth. John 16:7,8: "It is expedient for you that I go away for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:"Indeeed do I attempt to live the 'way of the cross': I make no apologies for that. Gal 2:20: I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." This is what I hope others will see in me. In reality my life mirrors too often that of Christiana, wife of Christian in "Pilgrim's Progress". And as I study the scriptures I find Paul in the same battle with flesh. I need to experience a crucifixion on a regular basis, like Paul said "I die daily." (I Cor. 15:31.)Am I missing your point? Likely. "But I know whom I have believed and am persuded that he he is able to keep that which I have committted unto Him against that day!" ginnyrose
_________________Sandra Miller
ginnyrose wrote:Orm,God came to Adam and Eve and the end of the day and fellowshipped with them. Everything was absolutely perfect from our human standpoint. God loved it as did the humans. ginnyrose
godcentral wrote:Hello Ormly,God is all powerful and therefore doesn't even require pro-creation for his purposes.Mat 3:9 And do not think to say within yourselves, We have a father, Abraham. For I say to you that God is able to raise up children to Abraham from these stones.
murdog wrote:Orm,I must say I find that this thread actually angers me. First of all it does not seem as if you have a point. I am not alone on this as it seems most of the other posters have no idea what the question actually is.Secondly you have been extremely rude and condescending to some of the other posters who question you. You get annoyed with them for not being clear, when by your own admittance you are guilty of the same.Enough Already.Murray
Note: Though in italics, all translations understood the "making" process and added the word. Adam was made ...; Jesus was made....
He would have, by a series of moral choices, arrived at his own transguration.... just like the man Jesus. That was the ultimate intention for him by God. Adam failed the first test given him
hey orm,
Address some of the questions I have asked like "Did God place Adam here to fail just so you could be redeemed"? If not, what did God have in mind .... and don't give me "for His pleasure" bit. That won't wash.
godcentral wrote:hey orm,Quote:Address some of the questions I have asked like "Did God place Adam here to fail just so you could be redeemed"? If not, what did God have in mind .... and don't give me "for His pleasure" bit. That won't wash.Clearly through Israels fall the gentiles recieved mercy. It was all pre-planned and Adam is not exempt from this plan for:Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? For it is God who wants to show his wrath and power.
Your question was "Did God place Adam here to fail just so you could be redeemed"? well, my view is yes he did. Adams fall did not take God by surprise. For he is the potter (the creator of us all. Adam as well) making the lumps of clay into whatever he pleases
godcentral wrote:Your question was "Did God place Adam here to fail just so you could be redeemed"? well, my view is yes he did. Adams fall did not take God by surprise. For he is the potter (the creator of us all. Adam as well) making the lumps of clay into whatever he pleases
Ormly has an erroneous understanding of the word "Transfiguration" as something that was to happen to Adam after his obedience, Transfiguring him into a son of God.But the scripture in the Gospel of Matthew 17:2 and Mark 9:2 was revealing to the Apostles, those who were standing there, that Jesus Christ is/was God who being veiled in the flesh had been seen and to testify of these things afterward. He didn't have to do anything or prove anything FIRST, to receive His Transfiguration. His being transfigured "momentarily" for the disciples eyes to see, PROVED HE IS/WAS and will always be Lord. When He came down off the Mountain, He once again, clothed in Flesh for you and me, continued His Ministry, went to the Cross, Rose Again, was seen of some 500, (not in a transfigured state...*white as snow* etc) until He went to the Father and was once Again Glorified with Him. This Glorified Jesus, appeared to Paul on the road to Demascus, with such brilliance, it blinded Paul. This mis-application of the understanding of Transfigur"ed" NOT Transfigur "ATION"( no word in scripture for TransfigurATION....as something of BECOMMING.Through Christ, and IN CHRIST ONLY ,are our minds being transformed from Glory to Glory, even by the Spirit of the Lord. This is ALL the WORK of the Lord, so in reality of the Saint, It should read, HIS UTMOST for our Highest. As that is exactly what HE DID, God GAVE HIS UTMOST, God Gave HIS Only Begotten Son....To God be the Glory for all the UTMOST Things HE has done.Love In ChristKaty-did