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 Re: The Matthew 24 Watch

[b][u]Exceprts[/u] from Mysticism & Christianity by Benjamin B. Warfield (1851-1921)
This essay originally appeared in The Biblical Review (vol. 2 ,1917, pp. 169-191)[/b]

"It is characteristic of mysticism that it makes its appeal to the feelings as the sole, or at least as the normative, source of knowledge of divine things. That is to say, it is the religious sentiment which constitutes for it the source of religious knowledge. Of course mystics differ with one another in the consistency with which they apply their principle. And of course they differ with one another in the account they give of this religious sentiment to which they make their appeal. There are, therefore, many varieties of mystics, pure and impure, consistent and inconsistent, naturalistic and supernaturalistic, pantheistic and theistic — even Christian. What is common to them all, and what makes them all mystics, is that they all rest on the religious sentiment as the source of knowledge of divine things.


If ... the mystic chances to be a theist, he may look upon the movements of his religious feelings as effects in his soul wrought by the voluntary actions of the God whom he acknowledges; and if he should happen to be a Christian, he may interpret these movements, in accordance with the teachings of the Scriptures, as the leadings of the Holy Spirit or as the manifestations within him of the Christ within us the hope of glory.

This Christian mysticism, now, obviously differs in no essential respect from the parallel phenomena which are observable in other religions. It is only general mysticism manifesting itself on Christian ground and interpreting itself accordingly in the forms of Christian thought. It is mysticism which has learned to speak in Christian language. The phenomena themselves are universal. There has never been an age of the world, or a form of religion, in which they have not been in evidence. There are always everywhere some men who stand out among their fellows as listeners to the inner voice, and who, refusing the warning which Thoas gives to Iphigenia in Goethe's play, "There speaks no God: thy heart alone 'tis speaks," respond like Iphigenia with passionate conviction, "'Tis only through our hearts the gods e'er speak." But these common phenomena are, naturally, interpreted in each instance, according to the general presuppositions of each several subject or observer of them. Thus, for example, they are treated as the intrusion of God into the soul (Ribet), or as the involuntary intrusion of the unconscious into consciousness (Hartmann), or as the intrusion of the subconscious into the consciousness (Du Prel), or as the intrusion of feeling, strong and overmastering, into the operations of the intellect (Goethe).


Clearly it is the type which has been called supernaturalistic that has the closest affinity with Christianity. Christian mysticism accordingly, at its best, takes this form and passes insensibly from it into evangelical Christianity, to which the indwelling of the Holy Ghost — the Christ within — is fundamental, and which rejoices in such spiritual experiences as are summed up in the old categories of regeneration and sanctification — the rebegetting of the soul into newness of life and the leading of the new-created soul along the pathway of holy living. From these experiences, of course, much may be inferred not only of the modes of God's working in the salvation of men but also of the nature and character of God the worker.

The distinction between mysticism of this type and evangelical Christianity, from the point of view which is now occupying our attention, is nevertheless clear. Evangelical Christianity interprets all religious experience by the normative revelation of God recorded for us in the Holy Scriptures, and guides, directs, and corrects it from these Scriptures, and thus molds it into harmony with what God in His revealed Word lays down as the normal Christian life. The mystic, on the other hand, tends to substitute his religious experience for the objective revelation of God recorded in the written Word, as the source from which he derives his knowledge of God, or at least to subordinate the expressly revealed Word as the less direct and convincing source of knowledge of God to his own religious experience. The result is that the external revelation is relatively depressed in value, if not totally set aside.

In the history of Christian thought mysticism appears accordingly as that tendency among professing Christians which looks within, that is, to the religious feelings, in its search for God. It supposes itself to contemplate within the soul the movements of the divine Spirit, and finds in them either the sole sources of trustworthy knowledge of God, or the most immediate and convincing sources of that knowledge, or, at least, a coordinate source of it alongside of the written Word. The characteristic of Christian mysticism, from the point of view of religious knowledge, is therefore its appeal to the "inner light," or "the internal word," either to the exclusion of the external or written Word, or as superior to it and normative for its interpretation, or at least as coordinate authority with it, this "inner light" or "internal word" being conceived not as the rational understanding but as the immediate deliverance of the religious sentiment. As a mere matter of fact, now, we lack all criteria, apart from the written Word, to distinguish between those motions of the heart which are created within us by the Spirit of God and those which arise out of the natural functioning of the religious consciousness."

Complete Article - http://www.contemplative.us/archives/2006/06/mysticism_christianity.php

 2007/9/20 23:26









 Re:

Quote:
The characteristic of Christian mysticism, from the point of view of religious knowledge, is therefore its appeal to the "inner light," or "the internal word," either to the exclusion of the external or written Word, or as superior to it and normative for its interpretation, or at least as coordinate authority with it, this "inner light" or "internal word" being conceived not as the rational understanding but as the immediate deliverance of the religious sentiment. As a mere matter of fact, now, we lack all criteria, apart from the written Word, to distinguish between those motions of the heart which are created within us by the Spirit of God and those which arise out of the natural functioning of the religious consciousness."



Great article He Reigns:

We must know that not everything supernatural is spiritual. Satan can turn himself into an angel of light and preacher of righteousness. All sorts of manifestations are going on today NOT IN SCRIPTURE re: being slain in the spirit is one of them.

Anti-christ is coming with great signs and wonders, and we are to know the difference between truth and lie. We have God’s Word for this. Yet, how many claim to have extra-biblical knowledge, not is scripture and claim this is of God.

Revelation says concerning anti-christ and HIS KINGDOM…., “who can fight against it”. Well, we may not be able to fight against it, but we are to discern it and not go near it.

We know these *Marian* sightings are satanic…., stigmas are mystical phenomenon, but NOT IN SCRIPTURE.

2 Timothy 3:
8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Jannes and Jambres were those mystics and magicians during the time Moses went into Egypt to bring Israel out. These men were able to imitate everything Moses could do. Scary huh?
2 Timpthy 3 is concerning these last days, including the warnings of mystics and magicians.

Here are two web sites that would be of great edification for these days.
I’m sure there are many more out there.


http://www.crossroad.to/Excerpts/warnings.htm
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/mysticism.html




2 Timothy 3:
8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.
10But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2007/9/21 9:16
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Note

Let me make something perfectly clear here.

"This forum"

Some of you have been here a mere matter of days, some not even a month and others perhaps only a few. It is quite troubling for one thing to hear many of the statements leveled at "This forum" and that is not from the posture of defense but one of either ignorance or presumption.

One of the most grievous things that goes on here is the overlooking of so much. There are [i]years[/i] of history behind this forum and the brethren who have contributed to it.

It would behoove many to hold their tongues, hold their peace and leave the moderating to the moderators.

Having stated this, would appeal again to the disclaimers linked at the bottom of this reply. Would bring no discouragement to anyone, all are welcome and misunderstandings abound, it is the very nature of things. But, there is something that must be understood about the surroundings one finds themselves in here. The manner and behavior of those who participate need to recognize that "This Forum" is quite likely very different than the idea that one either carries into it or supposes that it's members and constituents are made up of. These things are generally laid out in the links mentioned.

More will be needed elsewhere spoken to about this and will be again of a general observation, one that must be understood as to those it applies to, others will rightly disregard it. I am speaking of a general peevish and argumentative mindset that has spiritual ramifications and attributes, it is unruly, divisive and out of place here.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/9/21 9:47Profile









 Re: Note

Appreciate your words and function here on this Site Brother. No small task -- that, I can only imagine.
'Nebulous' is still in mind here. I expect on mosts threads where there will be/are "disagreements" - but if one comes out with no clarity as to what they disagree 'with', it makes all feel defensive or just plain confused and fearful to post at all. Am experiencing that myself, because of vagueness. Communicating effectively what is our hearts can be straining.
Let your yea be yea and nay be nay - I suppose. Or as one brother stated - send a PM or email and specify.
We all need help -- all desiring to be transformed into 'His' image [no small task for the Holy Spirit] and this may be a means of help for us all.
May He Bless you with the wisdom and strength for the task/responsibility. In Him.

 2007/9/21 13:12









 Re:

Katy - Thank you for your clarification.
Yes, the age of that Article confirms that truth remains truth - whereas, those things outside of Scripture, fall to the ground in time.
You've caused me to look up your reference and felt the whole of that chapter would fit in with the subject of this thread.

I'm only looking at the Title of the thread in this matter.

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
2Ti 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Thank The Lord for the Ballast of His Word.
God Bless all by It.

 2007/9/21 14:55









 Re: Some old/new thing.

[b]CONTEMPLATIVE SPIRITUALITY - THE LATEST 'CHRISTIAN' CRAZE[/b]
By Paul Proctor

The greatest danger to the church today is not the atheist, the agnostic, the liberal, the humanist, the Marxist or even the Muslim extremist, but rather the "Christian" who subtly blends truth and lie resulting in a designer deity and discipline that finds common ground with the very enemies of Christ so as to become modish and marketable to the mainstream.

When one leavens the Christian faith with New Age teachings and practices, the result is a sacrilegious synthetic that is every bit as damning as the New Age itself, minus the stigma, rendering it more perilous than its predecessor precisely because of its churchy disguise. By way of the Hegelian Dialectic, many professing Christians are now embracing and promoting the hottest new hybrid to hit the church today, called "Contemplative Spirituality," that brings certain beliefs and practices from Eastern Mysticism into otherwise Christian worship to effectively permit, provide and promote what biblical Christianity does not.

Thesis (Christianity) + Antithesis (New Age) = Synthesis (Contemplative)

This dialectic derivative and its use of chants, more commonly associated with Zen Buddhism and the Transcendental Meditation of Hinduism, is becoming well entrenched in the Christian culture and being practiced for the sole purpose of emptying one's mind in order to experience an altered state of consciousness, (aka, "Alpha," "Nirvana," etc.) and the spiritual empowerment of "finding God within," which ultimately results in, among other things, silence, darkness, voices, visions and a "presence" erroneously assumed to be Divine - certainly not something Jesus taught His followers, but instead what He often delivered the demonically oppressed and possessed from - now ironically and tragically what many young "Christians" are actually seeking.

"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first." - Luke 11:24-26

Nowhere in scripture are we encouraged to recite mind-emptying mantras but are in fact, specifically commanded NOT to engage in them. Jesus considered such things to be a "heathen" practice. Nevertheless, today's Emergent enthusiasts fondly refer to it as "Contemplative Prayer" or "Centering Prayer." Some even use biblical words and phrases as their mantra, known to many as "lectio divina," which essentially turns the Word of God into a meaningless mechanism of magical mush. Still others choose the repetition of very short prayers that can each be voiced within in a single breath to achieve "the silence" – calling them "breath prayers."

"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." - Matthew 6:7

And please don't write me citing the Lord's Prayer as an example of God condoning recitation. The Lord's Prayer was an example of HOW to pray, not WHAT to pray.

We all know what an insult it is to be patronized and propagandized by anonymously authored speeches, store bought sermons and ghostwritten books where someone feigns the wisdom, insight and sincerity of another by claiming and/or reciting their words as their own before an audience to artificially accomplish what they could not authentically articulate themselves. Even though this is becoming an increasingly accepted practice in our conscience-free culture, when it comes right down to it, nobody likes a hypocrite or a schmooze. And when we perform prefabricated prayers or chant monotonous mumbo jumbo to vacate our brains for ecstatic experiences instead of honestly opening our hearts in prayer and supplication before the Lord Jesus Christ, we demonstrate to Him and everyone else that we have nothing real to offer, and worse, aren't all that interested in anything He has to say to us through His Word, because we're in it for the high, not for religious "dogma," as it is so insultingly referred to by many from within the Emerging Church movement who are clearly no more convicted by the Holy Spirit than the carnally-minded crowds that followed Jesus around to get their stomachs stuffed.

Imagine your child communicating with you by reading someone else's scripted speech - or just repeating to you the very same words and phrases over and over and over until their eyes roll back in the head. Do you honestly think that would bring the two of you closer together? Why then do Contemplatives think recitations and incantations will bring us closer to our Father in Heaven? I dare say that the only one it will bring them closer to is the prince of this world.

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." - 1st John 4:1

Frankly, those who indulge in Contemplative prayer and walk Labyrinths to get a buzz for Jesus are no better off than winos mumbling and stumbling through a maze of darkened downtown streets only to wind up languishing alone on cardboard beds beneath bridges and between buildings, because the end is the same - confusion, delusion, depression and death. They're not following Christ or obeying His Word, they're only junkies chasing a high and running from the reality of their own rebellion by attempting to anesthetize their pain and escape accountability - all the while justifying themselves by sorting through the conjectural compost of beard-stroking street urchins and calling it "Emergent conversation."

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." - Colossians 2:8

Contemplative Spirituality is finding its way into the church these days largely through youth groups, events, conferences, concerts, and coffee houses where Emergent leaders and their wayward wisdom wow young wannabes into mind-numbing mysticism right under the noses of ignorant and/or delinquent parents and pastors who assume their teens are being instructed in the faith of their fathers, having, in absentia, abdicated their spiritual duty over to change agents so they themselves can passionately pursue their own purpose driven lives.

The seeker-sensitive pulpits of America long ago jettisoned the fear of the Lord and the Gospel of repentance in order to partake in the pragmatic pleasures of personal experience and cuddle in the cozy compromise of consensus, spawning a generation of "Christians" that care not about the absolute truth of God's Word but only about turning inward for gratification and guidance and outward for adulation and affirmation, just like their PDL parents, making them more compliant to the coming one-world religion of tolerance, diversity and unity. Simply put, Contemplative prayer is quickly becoming the transition tool of choice to ultimately unite a compromised church with a wanton world through mysticism.

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools…" - Romans 1:21-22

If you would like to know just who these Contemplative gurus are and what they're teaching today's young people, I would invite you to bookmark the following websites below #1, 2, and 3, where a wealth of information is available. Just because your son or daughter is an active member of a "traditional church," don't make the mistake of thinking they aren't being tempted to join in and experience this latest "Christian" craze.

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you." - 2nd Corinthians 6:14-17

Related Articles:

1. Lighthouse Trails Research
2. Eastern Regional Watch (Contemplative/Emergent Section)
3. Christian Research Service (Contemplative Section)


http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/

http://lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?cat=3

 2007/9/21 15:38









 Re:

I was so blessed by reading this last article posted.


Quote:
The greatest danger to the church today is not the atheist, the agnostic, the liberal, the humanist, the Marxist or even the Muslim extremist, but rather the "Christian" who subtly blends truth and lie resulting in a designer deity and discipline that finds common ground with the very enemies of Christ so as to become modish and marketable to the mainstream.




So many Christians today are so wrapped up in the politics of the world and the war and Fox news, that it would seem the greatest of a filibuster the enemy would use to keep our minds off of what is really going on from a Spiritual perspective....fleecing the Sheep in more ways then one.

As we all join hands in fighting the Islam’s and terror, we are not Growing in the Grace and Knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Islam is not the enemy.....ignorance; apathy and indifference is the greatest enemy IN the church today.

I pray for those and am so thankful for those who will speak the truth from the roof tops! God Bless those who do!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2007/9/21 16:28
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Contemplative ...

Quote:
If you would like to know just who these Contemplative gurus are and what they're teaching today's young people, I would invite you to bookmark the following websites below ...



Of the links you provided I would add a note of discretion just as well. Whatever their intentions, and amongst others, they did an especial disservice to George Fox by their equating him at fault and linking to some fringe cultic group borrowing of his name.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=13444&forum=16&post_id=&refresh=Go]A QUAKE THAT SHOOK ENGLAND by Greg Gordon[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=category&cid=410]George Fox[/url]


_________________
Mike Balog

 2007/9/23 12:26Profile









 Re:

I would bring your concern to their attention.
It is one of the more reputable ministries out there - so I'm sure they would be interested.
I've yet to meet a 100% inerrant human - so I would never discredit 'any' ministry on the basis of just the mention of one man. Just as I wouldn't want this Site that we're on, discredited for the variety of authors carried.
I wrote extensively 28 years ago, things that I wouldn't necessarily write today. Though not "error" in the sense of heresy - but I believe when I was younger, I gave much more credit to humans than I would now, nor would I shun any large ministry, solely on the basis of one favored author.
I have Quakers in my own family, so I am somewhat familiar.
The type ministries that were linked to above, meet the most critical judgments of all and are seldom on most people's Favorites List, though they carry one of the hardest of all ministries.
With all due Respect for all that preach(ed) the centrality of Christ, in sincerity.

 2007/9/23 13:14









 Re:

George Fox thought Paul to be, I guess, someone beneath George Fox's standards or opinion of himself and the Written Word of God.

Also known as the Godfather of the feminist movement, encouraged women to leave the home and preach, also promoting the complete opposite of Paul's teaching (or rather God's inspired Word through Paul) concerning Husband and wife.

George Fox and Company did not obey or follow the following Scripture.

1 Timothy 2
1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;


1 Peter 2:12-14
12Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

13Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

14Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.


http://www.cephas-library.com/renovare_willow_creek.html

http://www.universalistfriends.org/intro.html

http://pamphlets.quaker.org/QUF.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quakerism


One MUST study the background of George Fox against the Written Word of God and decide if George truly was Moved by the Holy Spirit that moved him away from scripture rather then obey Scripture. The INNER LIGHT He was moved By is in opposition to the LIGHT we abide in, Jesus Christ, the Light of the World.

And look where that behavior has taken them today!!!


George Fox may very well be quaking still in dread of Judgement Day.

Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-Did


2 Thessalonians 3:14
And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.


 2007/9/24 21:18





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