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Whew. I just got done reading all of this. You all can sure post some long postings :-)

I am post-trib. But let me ask...what does it matter? We all need to live ready for Him to come. I feel that if Father chooses to take me before the great trib, Great! If not, Great!

The question is...Are you ready if you are right? Are you ready if your wrong? Break off the spirit of religion and move to the spirit of God.

Many blessings



Hello Miccah - I see you have the gift of correction. :-)

You have popped on here and basically addressed us both or all on this thread -- may I ask where you have [i]discerned[/i] the "spirit of religion" and also -- how is that -- "When" He is returning to gather His Elect - doesn't matter - as you've said - "what does it matter?" - if we have to go through the tribulation and deal with the beast and the mark or not?

It seemed to "matter" quite a bit to GOD in His Word. Indeed.

Most curious as to how you discern a "spirit of religion" in whomever - on this thread.
This ought to be interesting.

 2007/9/20 2:58









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Quote:
Be very careful if you keep it in. Jesus was against what the Pharisees represented, religion. Don't get stuck in this rut.



Miccah, Those Links ARE ABOUT RELIGION!!!

I do hope you know the difference. I also hope you've read them. An interesting comment on the first one.......kinda reminds me of what you too are saying here !!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did


 2007/9/20 6:16









 Re:

Quote:
To Judge or To Judge Not?




He Reigns, I hope you don't mind my re-posting Kato Mivule Article here.

Here is another Great Article that is a must read:

http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/04/smith-deceived_on_purpose.htm



Seems as though there is a need for refreshing in the GIFT OF TRUTH! ;-)

To Judge or To Judge Not?
By Kato Mivule
Uganda, Africa
www.YesuMulungi.com

To Judge or Judge not, which is which? Are we Supposed To Criticize?

I have had many aggravated here in Uganda, Africa over the issue of Discernment were by some accusations have been flying left and right from "Pious African Christians" that we are "Judging", "Critical", and we are "To Judge Not"...

In Africa we have a cultural barrier when it comes to Bible Discernment and Righteous Judgment...Leaders especially African Village Chiefs are highly esteemed in African Cultures that it is a very bad omen to speak out against them or question them. African Leaders also take advantage of such weakness in the African Cultures by claiming that all who stand to oppose them will receive "Curses"...

This trend can be seen across Africa's Political Platform were Presidents assume a Deity Role and assume life Presidency often ending up in a dictatorship. Such thinking that I call the 'African Village Chief Mentality' has sadly taken the African Church by storm...

It is a shame that so-called Christian leaders have taken on this 'African Village Chief Mentality' and threaten all who question their activities and false doctrines with "Curses", Excommunication, and persecutions including death threats. These so-called Church leaders in Africa threaten their constituents by telling them that they should never "Touch the Anointed of God" and never speak against the "Man of God", those who do so are told they will receive "Curses"...

This has been one reason why Discernment and Righteous Judgment is not exercised in most African Churches as the believers walk and live in pure fear. As such the "Man of God" is free to teach whatever False Doctrine they desire... The African Church Leaders reign over their churches with an iron fist and nothing short of the Nicolaitanes Doctrine...

However, is this what the Bible teaches? Is this what Jesus Christ and the Apostles taught? So, we take a look at the scriptures below and see what the Whole Counsel of God's Word says...

Many have also made a tragic mistake of thinking that Pharisees don't exist in our so-called churches today, and that if they do exist they remain in the confines of Denominations like the Roman Catholic Church, Anglican Church and other Religions...this is nothing short of joining those who say Satan does not exist, that if he does he must be confined with those who practice witchcraft...

Such folks with this line of thinking forget that the most established 'Pharisees' of our day belong in the Prosperity Purpose Driven Political Dominionism Evangelistic Movement and can clearly be seen with their flashy and pompous so-called ministries across TBN and other "Christian" TV outlets around the world....

So, to simply "judge" and say that 'Pharisees' don't exist today is not to exercise discernment and not judging properly and righteously as we shall see below...

What was Paul doing when he warned the Galatians, Corinthians against FALSE TEACHERS? What was Peter and Jude doing in warning the believers in their epistles against false prophets and false teachers? What Was Jesus doing in Matthew 23?

What was Jesus Christ doing when He warned his disciples about False Prophets, the Yeast of the Pharisees, and the Yeast of Herod? Was Jesus Christ simply rebuking Pharisees of His day and that was it? Does the Bible Self Contradict? Does Jesus Christ speak one thing then another next time and self contradict? Are we trying to accuse Jesus Christ, Peter, Paul, James, Jude of Flip-flopping?

Do you suppose that So-called Born again Christians today have not Rejected Jesus Christ? Really, really, really??? Well, not until the Bible Scriptures prove otherwise…

Greek Words for Judge is…
Okay, well, lets take a look at the original Greek word ‘Judge’ and then we can verify what the Bible is speaking about. The Bible offers no Contradictions. The misunderstanding of the word ‘Judge’ and pious phrase most Christians use, “Judge Not” , comes from not reading the Whole Counsel of God’s Word and lack of study of God’s Word.

Many Christians simply accuse those who ‘Judge Righteously’ as simply being “Critical”, “Filled with bitterness”, “Filled with hate”, “they hate my Pastor yet he is a Man of God…” and all the lazy excuses we give in entertaining false doctrines and the lies of Men…so let the Greek Words help us…

Judge: Strong's Number: 350 Anakrino
examine or judge
to investigate, examine, enquire into, scrutinize, sift, question
specifically in a forensic sense of a judge to hold an investigation
to interrogate, examine the accused or witnesses
to judge of, estimate, determine (the excellence or defects of any person or thing

Judge: Strong's Number: 1252 Diakrino
to separate, make a distinction, discriminate, to prefer
to learn by discrimination, to try, decide
to determine, give judgment, decide a dispute
to withdraw from one, desert
to separate one's self in a hostile spirit, to oppose, strive with dispute, contend
to be at variance with one's self, hesitate, doubt

Judge: Strong's Number: 1348 Dikastes
judge, arbitrator, umpire

Judge: Strong's Number: 2919 Krino
to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose
to approve, esteem, to prefer
to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion
to determine, resolve, decree
to judge
to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong
to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one's case may be examined and judgment passed upon it
to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure
of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others
to rule, govern
to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment
to contend together, of warriors and combatants
to dispute
in a forensic sense
to go to law, have suit at law

Judge: Strong's Number: 2922 Kriterion
the instrument or means of trying or judging anything
the rule by which one judges
the place where judgment is given
the tribunal of a judge
a bench of judges
the matter judged, thing to be decided, suit, case

Judge: Strong's Number: 2923 Krites
one who passes or arrogates to himself, judgment on anything
an arbiter
of a Roman procurator administering justice
of God passing judgment on men
of the leaders or rulers of the Israelites

Judge: Strong's Number: 2924 Kritikos

1. relating to judging, fit for judging, skilled in judging


"Judge Not?" Does the Bible Self-Contradict?
So, did Jesus not say first remove the beam (log) in your eye and then remove the mote (speck) from your neighbours? Was he refusing judging?

Did He not state that He himself judges righteously?

Is there no Righteous Judgment?

Does not the spiritual man judge all things and is judged by no one?

So, what is the context of judge not?

It is simple, if you practice evil or still struggle with evil and a certain sin in your life, then you can judge no one while practicing the same thing...

First get delivered from that sin then go and deliver others after you are free...

>>The Bible forbids to Judge Unrighteous based on outside appearance, foods, days, festivals etc as the scriptures below show…

Romans 14: (Krino = To Condemn, Damn) …unrighteous judgment based on foods, days, drinks, etc…
1 Corinthians 10:23-33 (Krino = To Condemn, Damn)…unrighteous judgment based on foods…
Colossians 2:16-17 (Krino = To Condemn, Damn)…unrighteous judgments based on foods, drinks, holidays etc…
1 Corinthians 4:1-5 (Krino = To Condemn, Damn in Verse 5... Anakrino in previous = To Examine)…forbidden to premature judgment based on outward appearance in context of Paul going to the Corinthians in Chapter 1 and 2…In Uganda for instance, the “anointed” preacher is judged to be “anointed’ if they drive a New SUV, Fly First Class, live in a Mansion, have a 8000 Church etc, yet many True Anointed preachers who have nothing are prematurely judged by men in the flesh…
>>Again in this scripture we are forbidden to judge by outside appearance or by The Standards of this world, this includes status, riches, class, race, ethnic back ground, educational background etc…this is very common in many Prosperity Purpose Driven Churches and among Preachers who preach Riches, wealth and materialism…

James 2:1-13 (Krites = A Judge; Krino = Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Esteem, Determine, Conclude, Judge Rightly, To Condemn, Damn = Unrighteous Judgment )
1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;

3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

>>But WE MUST JUDGE AND JUDGE RIGHTEOUSLY BASED ON GOD’S HOLY WORD….
>>Judge After You Have Removed the Log out of your Eye first…
>>Then you can help others...first get delivered to deliver others…
>>First get deliverance from evil doctrines and then help others who are bound…

Matthew 7:1-5 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Esteem, Determine, Conclude, Judge Rightly, To Condemn, Damn = Unrighteous Judgment)
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

>>Jesus says that Judge with RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT…

John 7:24 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Esteem, Determine, Conclude, To Condemn, Damn = Unrighteous Judgment)
24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Luke 7:43 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Determined Rightly; Called into Question Rightly = Righteous Judging)
43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

2 Corinthians 10:7 (Prosopon = Surface; Outside appearance)
7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? if any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

>>Why Don’t you yourselves Judge what is Right?

Luke 12:56-57 (Dokimazo = Examine; Determine; Test; ...Krino = Question Rightly)
56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?

>>Prove, Judge, Discern ALL Things…Hold to The Good

1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 (Dokimazo = Examine; Determine; Test; Prove; Try)
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

>>The Spiritual Man Judges ALL things…

1 Corinthians 2:11-16 (Anakrino = Question; Investigate; Interrogate; Scrutinize; Discern; Judge Rightly)
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

>> Paul says…”Judge ye what I say”…

1 Corinthians 10:15 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Esteem, Determine, Conclude, Judge Rightly)
15 I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say.

>>Be AWARE of FALSE PROPHETS…
>>How can you be AWARE of false prophets is you don’t judge righteously?????
>>You SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS…
>>How can you know them by their Fruits if Don’t Judge????

Matthew 7:15-20 (Prosecho = Be Aware, Pay Attention, Be Cautious, Take Heed)
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

>>What is our Standard of Righteous Judgment???
>>Is it not the Word of God?
>>We Judge basing on God’s Holy and True Word…
>>If they live and teach contrary to scripture there is no light in them!

Isaiah 8:20
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

>>Avoid those who teach contrary to Sound Doctrine…
>>How can you AVOID them if you Judge not righteously???
>>…They serve their own belly = Prosperity Movement???
>>They give fair speeches (feel good messages) to deceive the simple…

Romans 16:17-18 (Skopeo = Mark Them, Take Heed, Consider)
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple…

>>ALL scriptures below require Righteous Judgment Based on God’s Word…
>>Unless you “Judge not”, then you cannot accept these scriptures…

2 Corinthians 6: 14-18 (Aphorizo = Separate, Sever, Exclude, Divide)
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

2 Timothy 3:5 (Apotrepo = Turn Away, Deflect, Avoid)
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2 Thessalonians 3:6 (Stello = Avoid, Withdraw Yourself, Abstain from Associating with)
6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

Ephesians 5:11 (Elegcho = Reprove, Confute, Admonish, Tell A Fault, Rebuke)
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Romans 12:9 (Apostugeo = Abhor, To Utterly Detest)
9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

>>We are COMMANDED to TEST every spirit…
>>How are you going to Test, if you “Judge not”?
>>…For many False Prophets are gone out in the world…

>>So, Brothers and Sisters, Try, Test, Discern, Judge, all Spirits…
>>False teachers and preachers will detest the Life of Christ Jesus in them…
>>They hate to live after the example of Jesus Christ…to carry our Cross and follow Him…

>>They hate to live for Christ Jesus and Jesus Christ living in them…

>>…Which means death to the fleshly desires, things of this world, the prosperity comfy gospel, the get rich quick gospel…it means a life of persecution, being hated by the world, giving to the poor, storing up riches in Heaven and not earthly possessions…it means adhering to The Words of Jesus Christ…false teachers, ministries, apostles, prophets hate this because Christ Lives Not in Them…

>>They speak always of The World, the riches, money, fame, popularity, how to build mega million dollar buildings, glamorous cars, Elite Traveling, Mansions and the best indulgence they can get from the world; therefore the world loves them and cherishes them because Truly they belong to the world…for them godliness is a means of gain…and the world listens to them because they are of the world…

1 John 4:1-6 (Dokimazo = Try, Examine, Discern, Prove, Test)
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

>>Friendship with this world is enmity with God…
>>If you are in love with this world, you are an enemy of God…
>>Many Churches today are adulteresses…in love with this world and hating Jesus Christ their Bridegroom, Head, Husband and King…

James 4:4
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God

>>Therefore James 4:11 speaks about the unrighteous judgment of judging by outside appearance that James speaks about in James 2, otherwise Jesus, Paul and James are self contradicting which is not the case…

>>EXAMINE yourself to see if you are still in the faith…
>>How can you do this if you don’t self-judge???
>>Judge yourself based on God’s word so as not to be judged with the world…

2 Corinthians 13:5 (Peirazo = Examine, Scrutinize, Prove, Try; Dokimazo = Prove, Discern, Approve, Examine, Test , Try)
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

1 Corinthians 11:31-32 (Diakrino = Judge Ourselves, Separate Thoroughly, Discern, Judge; Krino = Condemn, Damm, Decree, Determine, Call in Question)
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

>>Judge those within the Church with Righteous Judgment Based on God’s Word…

1 Corinthians 5:11-12 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Determine, Judge, Try, Conclude, Decree, Think, Decide)
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

>>Judge Prophets and their Prophesy…Deuteronomy 18:20-22, Jeremiah 14 and Jeremiah 28 speak about the same thing and not being afraid of Prophets who prophesy of their own accord…but JUDGE ALL PROPHETS AND PROPHESY based on God’s Word…

1 Corinthians 14:29 (Diakrino = Separate Thoroughly, Discern, Judge, Contend, Discriminate)
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

>>We are forbidden to Judge the Brethren using world standards and taking them to courts of Law…this thing is very common among Prosperity Movement as they fight over Control of Material Wealth…

>>We are settle disputes among brethren we ourselves and Judge our selves…
>>So, how do we carry out such Judgment in 1 Corinthians 6 and “Judge not”?

1 Corinthians 6 (Krino = Judge, Properly Distinguish, Call in Question, Condemn, Sentence To, Conclude; Kriterion = A Rule of Judging, Tribunal, Judgment, To Judge)
1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

>>We are supposed to grow up spiritually and be able to discern, judge, prove, test, try ALL things based on God’s Word and discern between good and evil…

Hebrews 5:11-14 (Diakrisis = Discern, Judicial Estimation, Disputation)
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

>>We must grow and abound in more knowledge and ALL judgment…
>>This is to grow in the knowledge of Christ = His Holy Word and All Judgment…
>>So, we can then Judge Righteously based on God’s Holy Word…

Philippians 1:9-10 (Aiathesis = Discernment, Judgment)
9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

Conclusion...
If I am freed by God's Holy Word from Prosperity Doctrines, Mega-Church Building Teachings, the False Doctrine of Tithes from Hell, Nicolaitanes Doctrines of one Man Pastor Ministries, Balaam Doctrine of Greed, and Materialism, Political Christianity, Rapture before Tribulation (Pre-Trib) False Doctrine, Church Growth Movement, Purpose Driven False Doctrine, and many many more, so I can speak out against such Heresies just as Paul the Apostle did clearly with His mandate and approval from God...

Christians Today need to be more Discerning and to Judge with Righteous Judgment Based on God's Holy Word. There are many False Prophets that have gone throughout the world. Many of them are on TBN, the likes of Joyce Meyer, Kim Clement, Rod Parsley, Paul Crouch, Ben Hinn, Joel Osteen, and almost 99% of the TBN family...being a part of this False TBN Family and associating and supporting it makes one engage in their False Doctrines and Teachings, especially the Prosperity and Political Christianity Dominionism Doctrines...

In Africa we have Copycats of the TBN Family and because people are poor, many tend to see the rich affluent Preachers on TBN as Holy and True and simply believe all their False Teachings without question...this ought not to be so...

Acts 17:10-12 (Anakrino = Searched, Scrutinize, Investigate, Interrogate, Determine, Question, Ask, Discern, Examine, Judge)
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

True Christians act like the Berean Christians and Search the Scriptures Daily to see if those things preachers today say are so...yes, they will question everything, judge All things, Discern and Prove if all what preachers say is true...Apostate Christians are forbidden by their Pastor Preachers from doing so by telling them out of simplicity that, "Judge Not" while they feed them with False Doctrines from Satan and Hell...

Yes, I pray that we continue to grow in the Knowledge of Christ Jesus, His Holy Word so we can Rightly discern between Good and Evil...the days are evil and the Great Apostasy is happening before our own eyes...

Yes, as True Christians and Holy Saints of God, we are called to Judge ALL Things and to Judge Righteously, The Word of God being our Basis...Amen.


Thank you Kato.

Seems as though more here are in agreement then not!!

Love in Christ
Katy-did




 2007/9/20 6:31









 Re:

Miccah,

2 Corinthians 10:3-5
3For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
7Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? if any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.


Just as Israel when going to possess the land, were to drive out all those “ITES”, by Faith, The Lord going before them.

As we approach these last days, we too must drive out the “ITES” re: the Hinnites, Warrenites, Popites, Mormonites, Parasites, Termites, Moonites, etc, etc, out of any thoughts in our minds, and bring our Whole Heart, Mind, Body and Soul into the OBEDIENCE of the WORD of God, and through that obedience, the Lord WILL, bring these strongholds down and reveal Truth like you’ve never seen.

Yes, there does seem to be giants in the land, but do not be afraid...don't look to the right or look to the left, but Keep your eyes on Jesus Christ ALONE!!!


It’s called OBEDIENCE of FAITH.

THEN we are exhorted to:

Ephesians 6:
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the WORD OF GOD:

Love in Christ
Katy-Did


 2007/9/20 8:24
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:
Hello Miccah - I see you have the gift of correction. :-)



lol. No. I have the gift of difference on opinion is all. It sometimes feels that if you post here, and are not a Baptist, you get blasted. Again though, just my opinion.

Quote:
You have popped on here and basically addressed us both or all on this thread -- may I ask where you have [i]discerned[/i] the "spirit of religion"



Great question.

Before I post anything, I pray about it. I ask to speak in truth and honsety for His gain and not my own. I ask that He reveals His truth to me/us and that I speak this truth. I ask for barriers to be broken down between brethren.

The discernment comes from prayer, fasting and experience. It may be hard to see the spirit of religion (I know because I have been under that same spirit a time ago), but it is present in these forums/people. People are hesitant to look past their differences in theologies and follow the one true purpose there is, which is Kingdom. As you have seen even in this posting, people would rather argue about what they believe to be the interpretations of scripture, then focus on the One. When people begin to judge others because they are not in agreement, ie. KJV vs. NKJV, Baptist vs. Non-Denomonational, Kingdom vs. kingdoms, etc... a spirit of pride/religion takes hold. This is why I try not to debate pre, mid or post trib events, or denomonational stances. People get so focused on trying to explain why everyone should believe what "they" think about how God handed His word to us and why everyone else should submit to this thinking, that they loose the true focus of The Word.

Do you think that God agrees with your position only? Do you think that God only believes what you believe? Do you think that God is a Baptist, Catholic, Luthern, etc...? Do you really think that when Jesus comes back that only "insert denomonation" will be saved?

God is above religion, and so we must also be. He is for His Church, so we must be also. To do anything else is religious. When we start to get religous on others and think that our position is the only position, we open ourselves up to hypocrisy and false teachings based on the "knowledge of man" and not the knowledge of God.

Quote:
and also -- how is that -- "When" He is returning to gather His Elect - doesn't matter - as you've said - "what does it matter?" - if we have to go through the tribulation and deal with the beast and the mark or not?



I would never try to come off and say that the Word of the Lord doesn't matter. It does and It shall. The point I was making is to have people overlook their personal religious beliefs and look at the broad picture. That picture is that we need to be ready for what ever God has in store for us, regardless if it is pre, mid or post. If someone is so dead set that it is pre or mid, [u]and then it is really post[/u], they may feel mislead and fall away from God. This is all I am saying. Just because everyone "feels" one way or was "taught" one way about the rapture [u]doesn't mean that it is correct[/u]. Thus said, instead of getting into "debatable subjects" as talked about in the Bible, focus on being ready to do what ever God has in store for His people.

Quote:
It seemed to "matter" quite a bit to GOD in His Word. Indeed.



Yes, end times does matter to God, and to His people. So does spreading false teachings based on personal beliefs. I for one do not care when He takes me, as long as He does. To plan on something else is planning to be let down. All we know is that He will take us at some time. Eveything else is "debatable".

Quote:
Most curious as to how you discern a "spirit of religion" in whomever - on this thread.
This ought to be interesting.



Reference above. Hopefully this answered your question/s.

May the Lord give you grace upon grace upon grace.

Miccah


_________________
Christiaan

 2007/9/20 12:20Profile









 Re:

Hello again Miccah.

Here are my feeble attempts at trying to come to some sort of understanding.

Quote:
lol. No. I have the gift of difference on opinion is all. It sometimes feels that if you post here, and are not a Baptist, you get blasted. Again though, just my opinion.



So that would mean, your "doctrine" is different than a lot of the folks here, as you see it.

Quote:
Before I post anything, I pray about it. I ask to speak in truth and honsety for His gain and not my own. I ask that He reveals His truth to me/us and that I speak this truth. I ask for barriers to be broken down between brethren.

The discernment comes from prayer, fasting and experience.



So, because you've prayed and fasted and because of "discernment" - you "speak in truth and honesty" the "truth that He reveals" to you, because you've done all of these things and believe most of us here are Baptists who jump on non-Baptists.

Quote:
It may be hard to see the spirit of religion (I know because I have been under that same spirit a time ago), but it is present in these forums/people.



Interesting.

Quote:
When people begin to judge others because they are not in agreement, ie. KJV vs. NKJV, Baptist vs. Non-Denomonational, Kingdom vs. kingdoms, etc... a spirit of pride/religion takes hold.



Oh, I see. So that would mean, that what you have is the humility that the rest of us need.
May I ask, who brought up the word "Denominations" and judging kingdoms vs Kingdom first ?

Quote:
This is why I try not to debate pre, mid or post trib events, or denomonational stances. People get so focused on trying to explain why everyone should believe what "they" think about how God handed His word to us and why everyone else should submit to this thinking, that they loose the true focus of The Word.



So on page 6 - where you signed onto this thread - you weren't trying to "debate", nor were you "trying to explain why everyone should believe what [you] think about how God handed His Word to us and why everyone else [here] should submit to [your] thinking" ?
O.K..

I suppose I will have to go back and read all your posts again.

Quote:
When we start to get religous on others and think that our position is the only position, we open ourselves up to hypocrisy and false teachings based on the "knowledge of man" and not the knowledge of God.



O.K.. Will keep that part about "false teachings" in mind.

Quote:
Thus said, instead of getting into "debatable subjects" as talked about in the Bible, focus on being ready to do what ever God has in store for His people.



Do you believe in the word "doctrine" ? It's listed 44 times in the N.T..

Quote:
Yes, end times does matter to God, and to His people. So does spreading false teachings based on personal beliefs.



Yes, I see that you began to explain your end-time beliefs in the last post on page 6.

Now I have another question - how do we Stop the "spreading false teachings based on personal beliefs" unless we expose them Scripturally ?

But you said, we shouldn't do this [debate], above - yet, you've debated since signing on here.

You see - I see you saying two things at once since you've signed on to this thread and I'm just trying to get some consistency here.

As Katy well posted earlier -- I believe it was just before you signed onto this thread on page 6 -- "Jesus is The Word of God" - and that is what we were marveling at before your First post.

Personally, I prefer posts about "beliefs", to be filled with 'The Word of God' and not just directives. How about you?

You cannot throw away doctrine and reproving false doctrine and say, you have discernment about "the people here".
You cannot say, God tells you what to post and say you don't like debates by starting debates.

Can you at least consider where I've quoted you above and see these answers don't square with each other and only add to confusion -- adding in also, your earlier posts?

And that -- that may very well be why Katy has re-posted the Message on "Judging"?

I am not in or of any "denomination" btw, if that helps you to relax at all.

 2007/9/20 15:14









 Re:

Quote:
Do you think that God agrees with your position only? Do you think that God only believes what you believe? Do you think that God is a Baptist, Catholic, Luthern, etc...? Do you really think that when Jesus comes back that only "insert denomonation" will be saved?



Miccah, you are absolutely correct in stating God is not denominational. Actually that is considered "Carnal" or worldly minded according to Paul in 1 Corinthians 3.

This is why in these days it's SOOOOOOO important to put on the mind of Christ, that comes only through reading the Bible...the Word of God, and not let men regardless of what denomination try to hold dominion over your mind.

Actually Rick Warren is BAPTIST. The POPE is Catholic etc.

I believe I posted here earlier we should never run after men who have become so popular with the world, and world views. James says friendship with the world is at emnity with God. Meaning the ENEMY of God.

To be perfectly honest, the Obedient Saint will not be popular AT ALL.

To Judge, or what I got from Kato's comment, is we Judge what is being taught...just as the Bereans, after hearing Paul, an Apostle, went back and searched the scriptures to JUDGE what Paul was teaching was indeed the truth. They didn't say...Gee, that's Paul, we don't need to question.

We should all be good Bereans and Judge EVERYTHING that is being said today...it could be a matter of life or death...and that, I believe, is the most important reason we do judge, and warn.

As Jude says..."snatching some out of the fire, hating even their garments to be spotted by the WORLD". Obviously they KNEW how serious we should take God's warnings. We just re-iterate them...as Peter also said...."it's not burdensome for me to keep reminding you"... It's not a burden at all. It's out of LOVE, not debate.

With Love in Christ
Katy-Did

 2007/9/20 15:45
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:


Quote:
So that would mean, your "doctrine" is different than a lot of the folks here, as you see it.



I don't have a doctrine besides what is talked about in the Bible and the Word of God. But if you wish to call it that, so be it.

Quote:
So, because you've prayed and fasted and because of "discernment" - you "speak in truth and honesty" the "truth that He reveals" to you, because you've done all of these things and believe most of us here are Baptists who jump on non-Baptists.



The beautiful thing about the Lord is that He will speak to all of us. I always move to speak in truth and honsety. If this upsets you, I am sorry for that, but how will I be able to stand before the Lord and explain that I was silent when something needed to be said.

As for the comment about being or not being a Baptist, it was only my opinion. God said nothing to me one way or the other about that :)

Quote:
Oh, I see. So that would mean, that what you have is the humility that the rest of us need.



No, I need Christ's humility. I strive for that daily. But your reply to me here has no tone of humilty or patience.

Again, I am sorry to offened, but the Word IS offensive to many. Sometimes it is even offensive to us believers. Some times it offends me, but that offensivness allows me to reexamine myself and my relationship with Christ and make changes where changes need to be made. I never said agree with me, only that I do not need to agree with you. Test everything, everything I say, and even everything that you say to others. I How else will we learn unless we do this?

Quote:
May I ask, who brought up the word "Denominations" and judging kingdoms vs Kingdom first ?



When talking on the subject of "the spirit of religion", what does it matter who brought what up first? If denomonations and multiple kingdoms are implied, should I keep it quite?

Quote:
So on page 6 - where you signed onto this thread - you weren't trying to "debate", nor were you "trying to explain why everyone should believe what [you] think about how God handed His Word to us and why everyone else [here] should submit to [your] thinking" ?
O.K..

I suppose I will have to go back and read all your posts again.



I guess it will be hard to truly know what my "doctrine" is, since I am new to these forums. But to quickly break it down for you...

I believe in the Word of God. I stand for the truth and honesty. I fight for the Son, as He fights for me. I have a heart of no compromise when it comes to the Truth.

Quote:
Do you believe in the word "doctrine" ? It's listed 44 times in the N.T..

Yes, I see that you began to explain your end-time beliefs in the last post on page 6.




Quote:
Now I have another question - how do we Stop the "spreading false teachings based on personal beliefs" unless we expose them Scripturally ?

But you said, we shouldn't do this [debate], above - yet, you've debated since signing on here.



What does this accomplish? Think about all the good you and I could be doing for the Kingdom if we focused this energy on prayer. Wow.

Quote:
You see - I see you saying two things at once since you've signed on to this thread and I'm just trying to get some consistency here.



If I have confused you or have been confusing, I am sorry. It is not my intention. I am imperfect and doing the best I can to stay true to what the Lord wants me to do.

Quote:
As Katy well posted earlier -- I believe it was just before you signed onto this thread on page 6 -- "Jesus is The Word of God" - and that is what we were marveling at before your First post.

Personally, I prefer posts about "beliefs", to be filled with 'The Word of God' and not just directives. How about you?



Would it just be easier if I was quite and agreed with what everyone else is saying? Would it make everyone feel more comfortable?

I cannot.

Quote:
You cannot throw away doctrine and reproving false doctrine and say, you have discernment about "the people here".
You cannot say, God tells you what to post and say you don't like debates by starting debates.



I said that God tells me what to post? I think I said that I pray, fast and use experience. Plus I ask for His revelation so that I may speak truth.

Quote:
Can you at least consider where I've quoted you above and see these answers don't square with each other and only add to confusion -- adding in also, your earlier posts?



I will pray about what you have said since it is from a fellow brother. I will never turn my back on a brother or sister if they ak me of something. I may not give them the answer they want, but I will not turn away, unless it is a sin.

I ask you to please do the same in return. Pray for what I have said and test it.

How can we become united unless the Lord unites us? Praying together is a great start.

Quote:
I am not in or of any "denomination" btw, if that helps you to relax at all.



I sense that you would take this as a personal attack on yourself, your/others denomonation and your friend, it is not. What I say I say out of love, regardless if it is painful. I try to remove flesh from my words and insert the Spirit. I do fail. Christ doesn't.

Many blesssings to you and yours.

Miccah.


_________________
Christiaan

 2007/9/20 18:07Profile









 Re:

Miccah, I was thinking through supper - What would it matter if everyone on this forum was Baptist?
You've said you've discerned things about those on this forum - but then you say to give you a chance because you are new. I know what it is to be new too - but if you have differences with the things you've read on this thread - bring Scripture to the table and we can discuss things.
Miccah, I don't get offended by words on my monitor and least of all from someone I don't know.
Maybe if you'd just re-read your posts from page 6 - you may see what I was trying to ask you.
I love sharing God's Word back and forth with the brethren. You haven't given any Scripture yet, but just came on correcting; I don't know what.
Maybe Katy can understand what your differences are with the people here, as you've said - because I don't think I really want to know. If everyone here is Baptist, I could care less - so I think I'll just leave it at that - too nebulous for me.

 2007/9/20 20:09
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:

HE_Reigns wrote:
Miccah, I was thinking through supper - What would it matter if everyone on this forum was Baptist?
You've said you've discerned things about those on this forum - but then you say to give you a chance because you are new. I know what it is to be new too - but if you have differences with the things you've read on this thread - bring Scripture to the table and we can discuss things.
Miccah, I don't get offended by words on my monitor and least of all from someone I don't know.
Maybe if you'd just re-read your posts from page 6 - you may see what I was trying to ask you.
I love sharing God's Word back and forth with the brethren. You haven't given any Scripture yet, but just came on correcting; I don't know what.
Maybe Katy can understand what your differences are with the people here, as you've said - because I don't think I really want to know. If everyone here is Baptist, I could care less - so I think I'll just leave it at that - too nebulous for me.



Thanks for the reply. My last post stands as is, and has answered your questions above. Other then that, thank you for your general statements.

If you wish to discuss, feel free. If not, God blessand move on to the next topic.

Again, many blessings.

Miccah


_________________
Christiaan

 2007/9/20 20:34Profile





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