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 Re:Discernment

Katy - your last two paragraphs had truth in them that shook me. I'd like to post this for that reason and for reference on other present day topics. Lord Bless you and all and brokenvessel.
Jesus said, "Do not be deceived" and "Watch".
___________________________________________
[b]To Judge or To Judge Not?[/b]
By Kato Mivule
Uganda, Africa
www.YesuMulungi.com

[b]To Judge or Judge not, which is which? Are we Supposed To Criticize?[/b]

I have had many aggravated here in Uganda, Africa over the issue of Discernment were by some accusations have been flying left and right from "Pious African Christians" that we are "Judging", "Critical", and we are "To Judge Not"...

In Africa we have a cultural barrier when it comes to Bible Discernment and Righteous Judgment...Leaders especially African Village Chiefs are highly esteemed in African Cultures that it is a very bad omen to speak out against them or question them. African Leaders also take advantage of such weakness in the African Cultures by claiming that all who stand to oppose them will receive "Curses"...

This trend can be seen across Africa's Political Platform were Presidents assume a Deity Role and assume life Presidency often ending up in a dictatorship. Such thinking that I call the 'African Village Chief Mentality' has sadly taken the African Church by storm...

It is a shame that so-called Christian leaders have taken on this 'African Village Chief Mentality' and threaten all who question their activities and false doctrines with "Curses", Excommunication, and persecutions including death threats. These so-called Church leaders in Africa threaten their constituents by telling them that they should never "Touch the Anointed of God" and never speak against the "Man of God", those who do so are told they will receive "Curses"...

This has been one reason why Discernment and Righteous Judgment is not exercised in most African Churches as the believers walk and live in pure fear. As such the "Man of God" is free to teach whatever False Doctrine they desire... The African Church Leaders reign over their churches with an iron fist and nothing short of the Nicolaitanes Doctrine...

However, is this what the Bible teaches? Is this what Jesus Christ and the Apostles taught? So, we take a look at the scriptures below and see what the Whole Counsel of God's Word says...

Many have also made a tragic mistake of thinking that Pharisees don't exist in our so-called churches today, and that if they do exist they remain in the confines of Denominations like the Roman Catholic Church, Anglican Church and other Religions...this is nothing short of joining those who say Satan does not exist, that if he does he must be confined with those who practice witchcraft...

Such folks with this line of thinking forget that the most established 'Pharisees' of our day belong in the Prosperity Purpose Driven Political Dominionism Evangelistic Movement and can clearly be seen with their flashy and pompous so-called ministries across TBN and other "Christian" TV outlets around the world....

So, to simply "judge" and say that 'Pharisees' don't exist today is not to exercise discernment and not judging properly and righteously as we shall see below...

What was Paul doing when he warned the Galatians, Corinthians against FALSE TEACHERS? What was Peter and Jude doing in warning the believers in their epistles against false prophets and false teachers? What Was Jesus doing in Matthew 23?

What was Jesus Christ doing when He warned his disciples about False Prophets, the Yeast of the Pharisees, and the Yeast of Herod? Was Jesus Christ simply rebuking Pharisees of His day and that was it? Does the Bible Self Contradict? Does Jesus Christ speak one thing then another next time and self contradict? Are we trying to accuse Jesus Christ, Peter, Paul, James, Jude of Flip-flopping?

Do you suppose that So-called Born again Christians today have not Rejected Jesus Christ? Really, really, really??? Well, not until the Bible Scriptures prove otherwise…

Greek Words for Judge is…
Okay, well, lets take a look at the original Greek word ‘Judge’ and then we can verify what the Bible is speaking about. The Bible offers no Contradictions. The misunderstanding of the word ‘Judge’ and pious phrase most Christians use, “Judge Not” , comes from not reading the Whole Counsel of God’s Word and lack of study of God’s Word.

Many Christians simply accuse those who ‘Judge Righteously’ as simply being “Critical”, “Filled with bitterness”, “Filled with hate”, “they hate my Pastor yet he is a Man of God…” and all the lazy excuses we give in entertaining false doctrines and the lies of Men…so let the Greek Words help us…

Judge: Strong's Number: 350 Anakrino
examine or judge
to investigate, examine, enquire into, scrutinize, sift, question
specifically in a forensic sense of a judge to hold an investigation
to interrogate, examine the accused or witnesses
to judge of, estimate, determine (the excellence or defects of any person or thing

Judge: Strong's Number: 1252 Diakrino
to separate, make a distinction, discriminate, to prefer
to learn by discrimination, to try, decide
to determine, give judgment, decide a dispute
to withdraw from one, desert
to separate one's self in a hostile spirit, to oppose, strive with dispute, contend
to be at variance with one's self, hesitate, doubt

Judge: Strong's Number: 1348 Dikastes
judge, arbitrator, umpire

Judge: Strong's Number: 2919 Krino
to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose
to approve, esteem, to prefer
to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion
to determine, resolve, decree
to judge
to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong
to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one's case may be examined and judgment passed upon it
to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure
of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others
to rule, govern
to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment
to contend together, of warriors and combatants
to dispute
in a forensic sense
to go to law, have suit at law

Judge: Strong's Number: 2922 Kriterion
the instrument or means of trying or judging anything
the rule by which one judges
the place where judgment is given
the tribunal of a judge
a bench of judges
the matter judged, thing to be decided, suit, case

Judge: Strong's Number: 2923 Krites
one who passes or arrogates to himself, judgment on anything
an arbiter
of a Roman procurator administering justice
of God passing judgment on men
of the leaders or rulers of the Israelites

Judge: Strong's Number: 2924 Kritikos

1. relating to judging, fit for judging, skilled in judging


"Judge Not?" Does the Bible Self-Contradict?
So, did Jesus not say first remove the beam (log) in your eye and then remove the mote (speck) from your neighbours? Was he refusing judging?

Did He not state that He himself judges righteously?

Is there no Righteous Judgment?

Does not the spiritual man judge all things and is judged by no one?

So, what is the context of judge not?

It is simple, if you practice evil or still struggle with evil and a certain sin in your life, then you can judge no one while practicing the same thing...

First get delivered from that sin then go and deliver others after you are free...

>>[u]The Bible forbids to Judge Unrighteous based on outside appearance, foods, days, festivals etc as the scriptures below show[/u]…

Romans 14: (Krino = To Condemn, Damn) …unrighteous judgment based on foods, days, drinks, etc…
1 Corinthians 10:23-33 (Krino = To Condemn, Damn)…unrighteous judgment based on foods…
Colossians 2:16-17 (Krino = To Condemn, Damn)…unrighteous judgments based on foods, drinks, holidays etc…
1 Corinthians 4:1-5 (Krino = To Condemn, Damn in Verse 5... Anakrino in previous = To Examine)…forbidden to premature judgment based on outward appearance in context of Paul going to the Corinthians in Chapter 1 and 2…In Uganda for instance, the “anointed” preacher is judged to be “anointed’ if they drive a New SUV, Fly First Class, live in a Mansion, have a 8000 Church etc, yet many True Anointed preachers who have nothing are prematurely judged by men in the flesh…
>>Again in this scripture we are forbidden to judge by outside appearance or by The Standards of this world, this includes status, riches, class, race, ethnic back ground, educational background etc…this is very common in many Prosperity Purpose Driven Churches and among Preachers who preach Riches, wealth and materialism…

James 2:1-13 (Krites = A Judge; Krino = Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Esteem, Determine, Conclude, Judge Rightly, To Condemn, Damn = Unrighteous Judgment )
1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;

3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

>>[u]But WE MUST JUDGE AND JUDGE RIGHTEOUSLY BASED ON GOD’S HOLY WORD[/u]….
>>Judge After You Have Removed the Log out of your Eye first…
>>Then you can help others...first get delivered to deliver others…
>>First get deliverance from evil doctrines and then help others who are bound…

Matthew 7:1-5 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Esteem, Determine, Conclude, Judge Rightly, To Condemn, Damn = Unrighteous Judgment)
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

>>[u]Jesus says that Judge with RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT[/u]…

John 7:24 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Esteem, Determine, Conclude, To Condemn, Damn = Unrighteous Judgment)
24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Luke 7:43 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Determined Rightly; Called into Question Rightly = Righteous Judging)
43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

2 Corinthians 10:7 (Prosopon = Surface; Outside appearance)
7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? if any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

>>Why Don’t you yourselves Judge what is Right?

Luke 12:56-57 (Dokimazo = Examine; Determine; Test; ...Krino = Question Rightly)
56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?

>>[u]Prove, Judge, Discern ALL Things…Hold to The Good[/u]

1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 (Dokimazo = Examine; Determine; Test; Prove; Try)
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

>>[u]The Spiritual Man Judges ALL things[/u]…

1 Corinthians 2:11-16 (Anakrino = Question; Investigate; Interrogate; Scrutinize; Discern; Judge Rightly)
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

>> Paul says…”Judge ye what I say”…

1 Corinthians 10:15 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Esteem, Determine, Conclude, Judge Rightly)
15 I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say.

>>[u]Be AWARE of FALSE PROPHETS[/u]…
>>How can you be AWARE of false prophets is you don’t judge righteously?????
>>You SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS…
>>How can you know them by their Fruits if Don’t Judge????

Matthew 7:15-20 (Prosecho = Be Aware, Pay Attention, Be Cautious, Take Heed)
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

>>What is our Standard of Righteous Judgment???
>>Is it not the Word of God?
>>We Judge basing on God’s Holy and True Word…
>>If they live and teach contrary to scripture there is no light in them!

Isaiah 8:20
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

>>Avoid those who teach contrary to Sound Doctrine…
>>How can you AVOID them if you Judge not righteously???
>>…They serve their own belly = Prosperity Movement???
>>They give fair speeches (feel good messages) to deceive the simple…

Romans 16:17-18 (Skopeo = Mark Them, Take Heed, Consider)
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple…

>>ALL scriptures below require Righteous Judgment Based on God’s Word…
>>Unless you “Judge not”, then you cannot accept these scriptures…

2 Corinthians 6: 14-18 (Aphorizo = Separate, Sever, Exclude, Divide)
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

2 Timothy 3:5 (Apotrepo = Turn Away, Deflect, Avoid)
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2 Thessalonians 3:6 (Stello = Avoid, Withdraw Yourself, Abstain from Associating with)
6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

Ephesians 5:11 (Elegcho = Reprove, Confute, Admonish, Tell A Fault, Rebuke)
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Romans 12:9 (Apostugeo = Abhor, To Utterly Detest)
9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

>>[u]We are COMMANDED to TEST every spirit[/u]…
>>How are you going to Test, if you “Judge not”?
>>…For many False Prophets are gone out in the world…

>>So, Brothers and Sisters, Try, Test, Discern, Judge, all Spirits…
>>False teachers and preachers will detest the Life of Christ Jesus in them…
>>They hate to live after the example of Jesus Christ…to carry our Cross and follow Him…

>>They hate to live for Christ Jesus and Jesus Christ living in them…

>>…Which means death to the fleshly desires, things of this world, the prosperity comfy gospel, the get rich quick gospel…it means a life of persecution, being hated by the world, giving to the poor, storing up riches in Heaven and not earthly possessions…it means adhering to The Words of Jesus Christ…false teachers, ministries, apostles, prophets hate this because Christ Lives Not in Them…

>>They speak always of The World, the riches, money, fame, popularity, how to build mega million dollar buildings, glamorous cars, Elite Traveling, Mansions and the best indulgence they can get from the world; therefore the world loves them and cherishes them because Truly they belong to the world…for them godliness is a means of gain…and the world listens to them because they are of the world…

1 John 4:1-6 (Dokimazo = Try, Examine, Discern, Prove, Test)
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

>>Friendship with this world is enmity with God…
>>If you are in love with this world, you are an enemy of God…
>>Many Churches today are adulteresses…in love with this world and hating Jesus Christ their Bridegroom, Head, Husband and King…

James 4:4
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God

>>Therefore James 4:11 speaks about the unrighteous judgment of judging by outside appearance that James speaks about in James 2, otherwise Jesus, Paul and James are self contradicting which is not the case…

>>[u]EXAMINE yourself to see if you are still in the faith[/u]…
>>How can you do this if you don’t self-judge???
>>Judge yourself based on God’s word so as not to be judged with the world…

2 Corinthians 13:5 (Peirazo = Examine, Scrutinize, Prove, Try; Dokimazo = Prove, Discern, Approve, Examine, Test , Try)
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

1 Corinthians 11:31-32 (Diakrino = Judge Ourselves, Separate Thoroughly, Discern, Judge; Krino = Condemn, Damm, Decree, Determine, Call in Question)
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

>>[u]Judge those within the Church with Righteous Judgment Based on God’s Word[/u]…

1 Corinthians 5:11-12 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Determine, Judge, Try, Conclude, Decree, Think, Decide)
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

>>[u]Judge Prophets and their Prophesy[/u]…Deuteronomy 18:20-22, Jeremiah 14 and Jeremiah 28 speak about the same thing and not being afraid of Prophets who prophesy of their own accord…but JUDGE ALL PROPHETS AND PROPHESY based on God’s Word…

1 Corinthians 14:29 (Diakrino = Separate Thoroughly, Discern, Judge, Contend, Discriminate)
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

>>We are forbidden to Judge the Brethren using world standards and taking them to courts of Law…this thing is very common among Prosperity Movement as they fight over Control of Material Wealth…

>>We are settle disputes among brethren we ourselves and Judge our selves…
>>So, how do we carry out such Judgment in 1 Corinthians 6 and “Judge not”?

1 Corinthians 6 (Krino = Judge, Properly Distinguish, Call in Question, Condemn, Sentence To, Conclude; Kriterion = A Rule of Judging, Tribunal, Judgment, To Judge)
1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

>>[u]We are supposed to grow up spiritually and be able to discern, judge, prove, test, try ALL things based on God’s Word and discern between good and evil[/u]…

Hebrews 5:11-14 (Diakrisis = Discern, Judicial Estimation, Disputation)
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

>>We must grow and abound in more knowledge and ALL judgment…
>>This is to grow in the knowledge of Christ = His Holy Word and All Judgment…
>>So, we can then Judge Righteously based on God’s Holy Word…

Philippians 1:9-10 (Aiathesis = Discernment, Judgment)
9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

Conclusion...
If I am freed by God's Holy Word from Prosperity Doctrines, Mega-Church Building Teachings, the False Doctrine of Tithes from Hell, Nicolaitanes Doctrines of one Man Pastor Ministries, Balaam Doctrine of Greed, and Materialism, Political Christianity, Rapture before Tribulation (Pre-Trib) False Doctrine, Church Growth Movement, Purpose Driven False Doctrine, and many many more, so I can speak out against such Heresies just as Paul the Apostle did clearly with His mandate and approval from God...

Christians Today need to be more Discerning and to Judge with Righteous Judgment Based on God's Holy Word. There are many False Prophets that have gone throughout the world. Many of them are on TBN, the likes of Joyce Meyer, Kim Clement, Rod Parsley, Paul Crouch, Ben Hinn, Joel Osteen, and almost 99% of the TBN family...being a part of this False TBN Family and associating and supporting it makes one engage in their False Doctrines and Teachings, especially the Prosperity and Political Christianity Dominionism Doctrines...

In Africa we have Copycats of the TBN Family and because people are poor, many tend to see the rich affluent Preachers on TBN as Holy and True and simply believe all their False Teachings without question...this ought not to be so...

Acts 17:10-12 (Anakrino = Searched, Scrutinize, Investigate, Interrogate, Determine, Question, Ask, Discern, Examine, Judge)
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

True Christians act like the Berean Christians and Search the Scriptures Daily to see if those things preachers today say are so...yes, they will question everything, judge All things, Discern and Prove if all what preachers say is true...Apostate Christians are forbidden by their Pastor Preachers from doing so by telling them out of simplicity that, "Judge Not" while they feed them with False Doctrines from Satan and Hell...

[i]Yes, I pray that we continue to grow in the Knowledge of Christ Jesus, His Holy Word so we can Rightly discern between Good and Evil...the days are evil and the Great Apostasy is happening before our own eyes...

Yes, as True Christians and Holy Saints of God, we are called to Judge ALL Things and to Judge Righteously, The Word of God being our Basis...Amen.[/i]

 2007/9/15 13:12









 Re:

He-Reigns:
Thanks for posting that article. WOW! Even Paul said “WAKE UP“!!!!! Seems as though many have fallen asleep at the wheel.

How foolish for anyone to give honor to meer men, just because they are someone's daughter or son. A Doctor or famous person who got saved, and just because of that we think they are God's spokesman.

ALSO remember we are a BODY, and we work together as a BODY. When someone claims they were chosen to lead the way, and become exalted above all the other members of the BODY..watch out...red flag!!!

It is GOD who approves, not men. Even Paul, the 12th Apostle, was not chosen by the remaining 11. So even Apostles don't have power to exalt anyone.

TRUE Christianity IS NOT POPULAR, so when you see those who have millions following..... beware...that's a red flag right there. If Jesus were on earth today, He couldn't get elected as Dog Catcher...that is A FACT. Christinity has not changed from the beginning and it will get WORSE as we get closer to the return of the Lord. THAT is a FACT!!!! ** 2 Timothy 2

We are shunned for speaking the truth. Actually it's made me even bolder and bolder as time goes on. I know the time is short. I know I'm saved, I know they can kill my body, but my heart, mind and soul my all in all belong to the Lord.

There is an awesome verse in Psalms, I believe in Psalms 66:

(para-phrasing here) We went through fire and water...they rode over our heads, but the Lord brought us out into …well you read it…I say, Mt. Sion, the Mt .of Amazing Grace with Hudspa to go with it!!!!

That would be equal to …Rev 3: "buy of me gold tried in the fire that you may be rich…with eyes to see and ears to hear. Your utterly LOST without them!!!!!

I love Job’s words when he went through his trial….I SHALL COME FORTH AS GOLD.

Well, the GOLD is the WORD of God. And all else is wood hay and stubble.

Paul said to Timothy, In Timothy “ In my fathers house there are vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor“.

Don’t forget we are called to be soldiers as well. We fight the good fight of faith.

Jesus said, I didn’t come to bring peace but a sword…and HIS WORD is that Sword.

One would ask, “ why does God prepare us through those fiery trials……?

Ephesians 3, “We are strengthened with MIGHT in the Inner man…to know the height, depth, length and width, of none other that Jesus Christ, and the Wisdom and Knowledge in Him, passing to His Saints…His Chase Virgins who refuse to go whoring around and compromising with the world, and anything that exalts itself against and above the WORD of God.

Do you see in Revelation….“He who sits on a White Horse…and His name is Called the WORD OF GOD, and his vesture dipped in Blood“. That is such a profound verse!!!!


You know all that cursing and curse stuff started with Benny Hinn when he was criticized for what he was teaching. These are wells without water…spewing up their own shame.

These are End Times, who are making the way for anti-christ to take his, or should I say, the Throne of David, and will actually believe he is Jesus Christ…because they knew not the scriptures.

Thanks for your post He Reigns!!!!!! Keep posting!!!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did






 2007/9/17 19:11









 Re:

Katy, thank you for your post. Love rejoices at Truth.

Quote:
ALSO remember we are a BODY, and we work together as a BODY. When someone claims they were chosen to lead the way, and become exalted above all the other members of the BODY..watch out...red flag!!!



Two major facts there. No lone-rangers either way. Even the prophets are accountable to the others. We're the Body - [b]He's[/b] The Head.
Sis, if you're shunned for Truth, you still tell the Truth. That's love. It seems humans have His love strangely defined. If one fears not being "liked" for telling the truth - that isn't love but self-love. If we are always looking at self - we'll fall for sure. Precious are the wounds of a friend. Yes, we must say things from a sincere and fervent love for people, but the reaction from most, the Word says, won't be "liking you". He said, if they hated Him they'll hate His people. No matter how sweet you try to be, they'll still hate you. Yet, continue to tell the truth in love.
Considering the verses you posted - I'd rather stay in His Love and Truth than compromise, just to be just a little more comfortable in this world and to "make friends and influence people. John the Baptist and the Apostles didn't write that book. Almost all were killed. Do we think we won't be ?
Yes, it will get worse, as you've said. The multitudes will turn against His Saints.
Well, you posted my favorite verse and I got happy reading it. These passages make my blood move. Can't even begin to fathom the sight this will be.
Whenever any of us are discouraged or oppressed, think of these, that you've posted in part ---

First these fools gather -

Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

And then the sky is rent -

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Yes! Victory by "The Word of God". That sure is "the Gold". How worth it all it will be on That Day. Unimaginable. Incredible. And to think of the petty things that we think or worry about. Our love [b]must[/b] be for The Word of God First. Yes!

Sis, how many times I've closed my mind off to everything else and tried to picture this/His Return. Mind boggling. "And every eye shall see Him" - words fail for this.
As soon as I saw that you had posted Rev 19:13 my heart started to skip for joy.
These are encouraging words and we're to encourage each other along. Sometimes, some "encouragers" are like Marine Boot Camp Instructors - but it works. How are we to think that our Commander and Chief - The King of kings - would give us an easier boot-camp then that ? We're training to go through some "perilous times" - yes, you're right there - spiritual warfare as never seen before in human history - so how is it that we want to be pampered ? I'd say - Lord - send in your Drill Instructor SIR - Get us ready to get through as Overcomers. These days, it seems we want a Spa and back rubs instead. Soaking in the whirlpool doesn't make Overcomers.

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the Coming of the Lord;
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword;
His Truth is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! His truth is marching on.

I have read a fiery Gospel writ in burnished rows of steel;
“As ye deal with My contemners, so with you My grace shall deal”;
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with His heel,
Since God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Since God is marching on.

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment seat;
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet;
Our God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Our God is marching on.

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us live to make men free;
[originally …let us die to make men free]
While God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! While God is marching on.

He is Coming like the Glory of the morning on the wave,
He is wisdom to the mighty, He is honor to the brave;
So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of wrong His slave,
Our God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Our God is marching on.


Sis, Thank you for loving & lifting up The Word of God - and you keep posting too. :-)

 2007/9/18 0:47
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Whew. I just got done reading all of this. You all can sure post some long postings :-)

I am post-trib. But let me ask...what does it matter? We all need to live ready for Him to come. I feel that if Father chooses to take me before the great trib, Great! If not, Great!

The question is...Are you ready if you are right? Are you ready if your wrong? Break off the spirit of religion and move to the spirit of God.

Many blessings


_________________
Christiaan

 2007/9/18 2:07Profile









 Re:

Miccah and He Reigns:

Everything in the OT was for an example for us. I love Judges, and one of the most telling tales is Judges 6:

Now, it's not about Deborah, so I'm not trying to exalt women here. It's about what she is saying.

Listen:

6In the days of Shamgar the son of Anath, in the days of Jael, the highways were unoccupied, and the travellers walked through byways.

7The inhabitants of the villages ceased, they ceased in Israel, until that I Deborah arose, that I arose a mother in Israel.

[b][color=CC0000]8They chose new gods; then was war in the gates: was there a shield or spear seen among forty thousand in Israel? [/color][/b]

9My heart is toward the governors of Israel, that offered themselves willingly among the people. Bless ye the LORD.

10Speak, ye that ride on white asses, ye that sit in judgment, and walk by the way.

11They that are delivered from the noise of archers in the places of drawing water, there shall they rehearse the righteous acts of the LORD, even the righteous acts toward the inhabitants of his villages in Israel: then shall the people of the LORD go down to the gates.

Have a Blessed Day in the Lord!!!

Love in Christ
Katy-did

 2007/9/18 6:41
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:

Katy-did wrote:
Miccah and He Reigns:

Everything in the OT was for an example for us. I love Judges, and one of the most telling tales is Judges 6:



I see you are pre-trib. Still the question remians below.

Quote:
The question is...Are you ready if you are right? Are you ready if your wrong? Break off the spirit of religion and move to the spirit of God.



Are you ready? Are you ready regardless of what you think you know, and what I think I know? Are you ready for the Lord to come and shake everything that can be shaken?

What will happen if everything that you have is stripped away and all that you have left is God? Are you ready for that day?

Look at the Church in states without freedom of religion...they are persecuted for Christs sake. They are killed, tortured, raped, beaten and much more. Are you prepared for that day to come against you?

Are you prepared to harbor those that will kill you? Are you prepared to give it all, your family, your friends, your job, your life for the sake of the Kingdom?


This is what I mean by "be ready".


Quote:
Luke 12:35-37 (NKJV)

35 “Let your waist be girded and your lamps burning; 36 and you yourselves be like men who wait for their master, when he will return from the wedding, that when he comes and knocks they may open to him immediately. 37 Blessed are those servants whom the master, when he comes, will find watching. Assuredly, I say to you that he will gird himself and have them sit down to eat, and will come and serve them.



You be like men who wait for their master.

In Christ

Miccah


_________________
Christiaan

 2007/9/18 18:16Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Are you prepared to harbor those that will kill you? Are you prepared to give it all, your family, your friends, your job, your life for the sake of the Kingdom?



Miccah,

When I gave my life to the Lord, I gave Him ALL, and was translated out of this present evil age into the Kingdom of His Dear Son, Jesus Christ.

I'm not sure I'm pre-trib, and not sure if Revelation 10:7 is pre or mid or pre-mid, or what, but I know:

1st John says,

We don't know what we will be, but we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is.

Christians are no longer part of this world system, in anyway, shape or form...or at least this is our calling to the Church.

Jesus Christ is my HOPE, not a kingdom. And today, since there are so many Kingdoms that people are referring to, I want to know exactly what Kingdom you are referring to.

The Kingdom of God
The Kingdom of Heaven
The Coming Kingdom Restored to Israel Acts 1:6&7
The Kingdom of His Dear Son, Jesus Christ.

To suggest one has never suffered unless one suffers through the Great tribulation is nonsense.

Our whole life is the fellowship of His Sufferings. So once again, one must discern their suffering, and make sure you are suffering for the right reasons, and for the right Kingdom.


You ask, if the Lord were to return today would I be ready…..Well, I’m as ready as ready can be.

If I should suffer MORE than I have suffered all ready, would I be ready……Well, The suffering I have all ready gone through HAS prepared me to endure, or even die if need be. I know I will be with the Lord. I HAVE PEACE WITH GOD, and I have the PEACE OF GOD.



I would give my life for the sake of the Gospel, and keep singing those praises the Jesus Christ came into this world to save sinners. To translate us out of this present evil age into the Kingdom of His Dear Son. And as Paul told those in Rome before he was beheaded, when he stood to preach the GOSPEL to them,

Acts 26:

17Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

18To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

19Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:


What about You? Are you ready? And what Kingdom are you prepared to give your life for? Or rather, WHO are you prepared to give your life for.....THE LOST PERHAPS!!!????!!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

Added:
PS, also remember, we are PERFECTED in LOVE, and perfect love casts out fear.....

Did Stephen show fear when he was stoned to death? NO! He looked up to heaven and said:
I see Jesus, sitting at the Right Hand of God!

 2007/9/19 8:40
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:


Quote:
Are you prepared to harbor those that will kill you? Are you prepared to give it all, your family, your friends, your job, your life for the sake of the Kingdom?




Quote:
Jesus Christ is my HOPE, not a kingdom. And today, since there are so many Kingdoms that people are referring to, I want to know exactly what Kingdom you are referring to.

The Kingdom of God
The Kingdom of Heaven
The Coming Kingdom Restored to Israel Acts 1:6&7
The Kingdom of His Dear Son, Jesus Christ.



The Kingdom. The Kingdom is the Kingdom. Not to be confussed with different theologies or timelines taught on the subject.

Quote:
To suggest one has never suffered unless one suffers through the Great tribulation is nonsense.



I could not agree more. But that is a different topic.

Quote:
Our whole life is the fellowship of His Sufferings. So once again, one must discern their suffering, and make sure you are suffering for the right reasons, and for the right Kingdom.



One Kingdom (with many different theologies from man that will all say their own theology is the right theology. This is dangeous btw, many are headed under a spirit of religion), headed by God. God's Kingdom is absolute.

Miccah



_________________
Christiaan

 2007/9/19 15:40Profile









 Re:

Quote:
One Kingdom (with many different theologies from man that will all say their own theology is the right theology. This is dangeous btw, many are headed under a spirit of religion), headed by God. God's Kingdom is absolute.



Miccah,

We are told to RIGHTLT divide the word of Truth.


Many today think they are bringing in the Kingdom FOR Jesus. The same mistake made during the Crusades...and look at all the blood shed.

Added Edited for content:
Here is what is happening now, because many not knowing and dividing the Word of Truth correctly. Too many people rely on others to tell them what the Bible says...big mistake!:

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/warrenexplanation.html

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/rick_warren_new_age.html


Dominion Theology is anti-christ, all based on Kingdom NOW Theology.

With that in mind. YES please discern your Kingdoms, with the Word of God.

So I will have to whole-heartedly disagree with your comment.


Love in Christ
Katy-Did

PS Added for Content

Many people recite the Lord's Prayer

Our Father etc.

However, we are not to pray recited prayers in the first place...pagan.

But notice it says,

On earth as it is in Heaven.

Kingdom of Heaven is refering to the 1000 year Reign, and that is a Kingdom Age Prayer, for the 1000 year Reign.

Strangely, those who have not rightly divided the Word of God think we can pray in Peace for the world. But look....there won't be any peace until Jesus Reigns and Rules in the Kingdom Reign. The CHURCH HIS BODY, you know the one Paul has told us about will reign and Rule with Christ during this time. But before that happens, the world will be in great turmoil.


This IS where many will be deceived when anti-christ takes the throne, 2 Thess 2, and he will actually bring peace for 3 1/2 years...When this happens everyone will believe him to be the Lord.

The way the Body of Christ KNOWS he is not God is because we will have been raptured at that time to reign and rule with Him. This IS in scripture.

Anti-christ WILL be on the scene before we go...and not sure how long that will be for, but according to 2 Thess 2, he will be revealed to us.

Don't be deceived! Study your Bible's.



Quote:
To suggest one has never suffered unless one suffers through the Great tribulation is nonsense



Quote:
I could not agree more. But that is a different topic



Actually Miccah, that was the topic in this blog!

 2007/9/19 18:13
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:


Miccah,

Quote:
We are told to RIGHTLT divide the word of Truth.



Divide it does not call for multiple Kingdoms.

Quote:
Many today think they are bringing in the Kingdom FOR Jesus. The same mistake made during the Crusades...and look at all the blood shed.



Jesus is Lord, there is nothing any of us can or will do that can change this. God ushers in the Kingdom, not man.

Quote:
Added Edited for content:
Here is what is happening now, because many not knowing and dividing the Word of Truth correctly. Too many people rely on others to tell them what the Bible says...big mistake!:

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/warrenexplanation.html

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/rick_warren_new_age.html



Kate, by suggesting these different links, are you not just doing what you said others are doing?
Quote:
Too many people rely on others to tell them what the Bible says...big mistake!:

I rely on the word of God, and not man to tell me He means and says in scipture.

Quote:
Many people recite the Lord's Prayer

Our Father etc.

However, we are not to pray recited prayers in the first place...pagan.



So when Jesus said this...

9"This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us today our daily bread.
12Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.[a]' 14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

...you feel that it is pagen? I appreciate your opinion on this and no offense, but I trust the words of Jesus and what He tells all of us to do, over what you think we should do. Plus, by denying doing what The Lord tells us to do [u]in the Bible[/u], you are saying that the Bible is wrong and the word of Jesus is inaccurate. This truly concerns me. Anytime someone would have me question what Jesus told us to do is grounds sets off for multiple bells and whistles to
end the discussion.

Quote:
But notice it says,

On earth as it is in Heaven.

Kingdom of Heaven is refering to the 1000 year Reign, and that is a Kingdom Age Prayer, for the 1000 year Reign.



Kate,

This is what you've been taught and is your theology.

One God manifest into three beings (Trinity) does not equal multiple Kingdoms. It equals one heck of an equation that will be reveiled to us on that Day. One Kingdom, God the Trinity.

Also, I hope I am misunderstanding you and you are arguing timeline about your point above. To suggest that there are multiple Kingdoms is to say that there is multiple gods. The Kingdom is! It consists of different timelines and actions happening in it, but it never is a seperate Kingdom from God. To preach anything else is sinful.

Quote:
The way the Body of Christ KNOWS he is not God is because we will have been raptured at that time to reign and rule with Him. This IS in scripture.



Very much your theology and your opinion. I get all fuzzy inside too thinking that the Father will take me before the great trib, but what your again talking about is scripture interpretations, which are everywhere and all different. If you put your hope and faith in the pre/mid-trib, that is your business. I put mine in the Lord

But still, the question is not when it happens, but are you ready for things to happen? Even if it is different then you expect. For someone to think, including myself, that they have absolute key-in on the mind of God and His plans needs to rethink some things.

Also, if you are wrong about the pre-mid trib rapture, could this be the "great falling away" that is talked about? What would pre and mid rapture folk think about God if they were here in those days? I have a feeling that they would either not believe that we are in those days, or they would "fall away" from God because they believed the theology that God was saving them from pain and hardship. I do not ask you to change your mind, but pray. Pray and ask God to reveal Himself.

Quote:
Anti-christ WILL be on the scene before we go...and not sure how long that will be for, but according to 2 Thess 2, he will be revealed to us.



Not a very fun thought, but this is one area I do agree with you on completly

Quote:
Don't be deceived! Study your Bible's.



*sigh*
Thanks for thinking I have no idea what I'm talking about and I don't know the Bible. Very denominational of you.

Quote:
To suggest one has never suffered unless one suffers through the Great tribulation is nonsense



Quote:
I could not agree more. But that is a different topic



Actually Miccah, that was the topic in this blog!


It was?

I will not call out a denomonation, because that only creates division. But as much as you can, please keep your denomonation out of converations. Jesus did not have a denomonation/religion, and to suggest that He did creates a spirit of religion amoungst us.

Be very careful if you keep it in. Jesus was against what the Pharisees represented, religion. Don't get stuck in this rut.

Great discussion. Many blessings

Miccah


_________________
Christiaan

 2007/9/20 0:56Profile





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