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IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re: No Special Rank or Priviledge for Losing Ones Head ...

bro R.

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

as i said earlier, i believe sis K-D initially read more into what i said as she thought i excluded others who were not necessarily beheaded. in another thread i think bro Eli was the one God used to let me know that the beheaded spoke of those who were martyred. This was the thing i had in mind when i posted at first. However the bigger thing is that i hadn't read all the "ands" in that passage (funny how God keeps us blind to certain things until His time comes about) and only through God's working through sis K-D's persistence on this issue did it finally hit me. As you and i know (and as God showed it to me through you) this is the Beauty and UTILITY of fellowship at work here!

Quote:
Wow bro i have to agree with Katy-did here ... this is like a new doctrine i've never heard before ... Praise God that you prefaced this with "i believe", but "i believe" you're wrong in this conclusion ...



and indeed i was wrong and didn't have a better understanding of what God was saying here until now. in my response to sis K-D i brought back what i had said to her about this which she had missed since it was at the end of the post which you both were responding to. now my understanding is fuller.

Quote:
So my entry here ain't about when the rature, or the first or second resurrection, but about your conclusion that somehow only those "martyred/beheaded" (Rev. 20) will get to rule, reign and judge with Christ during the 1,000 years ... i totally disagree with this as so many scriptures aforehand testify to the contrary ...



and the Beauty and Utility of Fellowship strikes again! i bless God that He used sis K-D as He did to open my eyes. as i said in my response, as i was posting to her, Holy Spirit opened my eyes and i lost my train of thought and concluded sis K-D was right. in that moment, i saw all the "ands" and rather than rev 20 talking only about martyrs ruling with Christ, i saw it as being quite possibly a Hierachical arrangement of the thrones. it hit me and then it came to mind that God's angelic creation has a hierachy in it, the angels have set stations and responsibilities of differing gravity and scope, and so i believe it will be in the 1000 yr reign for us who reign with Him.

Quote:
Every saint is not required to die a physical martyrs death, let alone specifically by beheading, to rule, reign, and judge with Christ during the 1,000 year reign ... It is widely believed that the 24 elders of the Revelation is comprised of 12 OT and 12 NT chief saints, these 24 occupying their own individual thrones and closer to God's own throne than all other saints afterward, so then by your reasoning only a percentage of them who were martyred would be eligible, excluding even the Apostle John who was the only disciple to die of old age? ...



indeed. i had always assumed though that the 12 would have special seating and position since they were the foundational ones.This way John who was the only one not to be Martyred would not be excluded from rule. i didn't mean in any way to suggest that and i see how one could conclude so and so i apologize to you dear saints if i caused you to stumble in any way and ask forgiveness from our Lord and yourselves. Now i am not totally sure who the 24 elders are, Watchman Nee postulated that they may be angelic beings whose responsibility ends when the population of Heaven is complete since after a point they are no longer mentioned. it could be that the thrones these elders sit on is vacated for the 12 from the O.T. and 12 Apostles. Either way i pray God give us clarity on that and indeed all matters concerning scripture.AMEN.

Quote:
i think it important to note the "ands" in this passage ... "And I saw the souls of them that were beheaded" is inclusive in a larger bunch of those participants of the first resurrection, not exclusive ... If God makes us exclusive as in the case of the 24 elders that's OK and His prerogative, but i think we have to be careful in making ourselves for whatever the reason as such, for we're all joint heirs with Christ ...



AMEN. and i hadn't even see those "ands" until yesterday! bless God for you both. indeed i believe our Lord will give us distinctions according to our service to Him and we are all joint-heirs with Christ. as you know, if He wants me front and centre, i'm not trying to be off one seat from that. If God has in Mind 1000 crowns for me, 999 will not do, i'm receiving for the 1000.

Praise God for His working here in setting this brother straight and giving me a better understanding of His word in this matter through you both.AMEN.

Grace and PEace is ours in Jesus.AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/8/7 15:13Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Glorified Together With and In Our Jesus ...



Praise God for the spirit of your reply bro Ironman ...

Jesus has His way of keeping us all humble ...

Anytime we might conjecture like this ...

Matt.20
[12] Saying, These last have wrought but one hour, and thou hast made them equal unto us, which have borne the burden and heat of the day.

He answers back like this ...

Luke.7
[28] For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist: but he that is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.

So that ALL of us no matter what He calls us to in this life, international ministry or local, international recognition or an intercessory prayer warrior who no-one may ever know our name, a martyr or the very last saint saved just seconds before GRACE as a grace period is cut off and they never have to suffer a blessed thing, can be all leveled out and equally encouraged by this ...

Rom.8
[14] For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Glorified together as a joint heir to me means what Christ gets, we get ... God is just too good - and thank you Jesus!!! ... :knockedout:


 2007/8/7 15:57Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re: Glorified Together With and In Our Jesus ...

bro R

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

Quote:
Praise God for the spirit of your reply bro Ironman ...



Praise God indeed for His opening of my eyes that i may see more Clearly the Truth of the Scriptures. AMEN.

Quote:
So that ALL of us no matter what He calls us to in this life, international ministry or local, international recognition or an intercessory prayer warrior who no-one may ever know our name, a martyr or the very last saint saved just seconds before GRACE as a grace period is cut off and they never have to suffer a blessed thing, can be all leveled out and equally encouraged by this ...

Rom.8
[14] For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Glorified together as a joint heir to me means what Christ gets, we get ... God is just too good - and thank you Jesus!!! ...



AMEN and AMEN bro! God is indeed too Good and thank you Jesus.AMEN.

Grace and Peace is ours In Jesus' Name.AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/8/7 17:31Profile









 Re:

Ironman, Rahman, I have thoroughly enjoyed these conversations. It's made me dig deep, and also learning more as I co along. I do know this, the Lord is truly a rewarder of those who diligently seek HIM. It's funny, Everything I ask the Lord to explain, He has. Now that answer might not come ofr a while, I've always asked questions WAY WAY over my head, and like a Child, I'm probably the biggest pain in the neck the Lord has ever known ..... "Why this and Why that, and if you said this here, why did you say that there, and that contradicts that and on and on". It's been a painful road as well, because many answers aren't just a " here ya go" answer, but an answer that comes through an actual process...and when I'm through, the Lord will say..." Now that is your answer to that question". Well you know those are burned right into my heart and mind and soul, so when I say that I KNOW the truth about something, I will say that I know. and if I don't know, then I will say, I don't know.

Once, as a baby Christian I asked about Moses. I use to CRY about Moses, and even gave God a stern talking to about how MEAN He was...after all Moses had done...just ONE little mistake and poof...that's it for you. For years I had a difficult time, because I would wonder and ask, Lord, If I make one mistake is it Poof for me too?

I guess that is and was the bottom line. Well, here is how I got my answer many many years later...through painful failure, over and over. But I learned GRACE , real live bonified GRACE...something head knowledge never would have satisfied. So after I understood GRACE + nothing, the Lord said: Moses *Represented* the law of sin and death. AND when I took the Children into the Promise Land, it was based on faith, not law. Had moses gone in and led the way, everyone would think you were saved by Law. But I sent Joshua who is a *TYPE* of Jesus to lead the way. Since Moses was with me on the Mt of Transfiguration, he is well and fine and I've explained it all to him and he understands.

The only reason I'm even telling you this is because it's so exciting to have that relationship with the Lord and so wonderful we can go to Him and ask ANYTHING. If you don't get your answer right away, there may be some things first you have to learn in order to really grasp the answer.

The MORE you know the Bible AND the more you put away your pre-concieved ideas (many false teachings as we all have those planted here and there) and just say, Lord, If I've been taught wrong, please purge those things and plant your only Truth. He will, Yes He will.

Anyway, I will reflect on all your points here too, and thank you all again for a great conversation where we can learn and get excited too. There is so much to learn and no one has all the answers. But here a piece and there a piece, we will grow!!!

With Love In Christ Jesus
Katy-did :-)

 2007/8/7 19:26









 Re:


Ironman, here is another reason the Catholic Church believes Mary to be the Woman in Genesis 3:15 and Revelation 12.

AND Believing themselves to be the only true Church, and earthly organization...not a heavenly one. The plot thickens.......


Catholics place much emphasis on the Virgin Mary for these reasons, and how it fits in with THEIR end time Prophecy, not ours, or the True Church.

What and Why The Roman Catholic Church States about Mary...

“Because she is the New Eve, she, like the New Adam, is born immaculate, just as the First Adam and Eve were created immaculate. Because she is New Eve, she is mother of the new mankind (Christians), just as the first Eve was the mother of first mankind (the children of Adam). And, because she is the New Eve, she shares the fate of the New Adam. The First Adam and Eve died and went to dust, the New Adam and Eve were physically raised to heaven“.

But let’s take this apart for a moment…

1.There is no scripture about a 2nd Eve, and if there were, scripture would be very open and clear about that. In making that possible, God would have created a second Adam and Eve as he did originally. Eve was taken out of Adam's side, not created or formed as Adam. Mary then would have to be formed out of Jesus rib for her to be the New Eve.

REMEMBER……

3.Adam the first was formed out of the dust of the earth, Eve was formed out of Adams' rib. God did not create Jesus out of the dust of the earth, although He could have if He wanted to. Adam was not formed as a baby, but a full grown man. So in essence, our flesh was formed originally of the dust of the earth...(ashes to ashes, dust to dust) still is. The bible says, the soul that sinneth it shall die...Jesus was not a newly created soul. .He was/is God from the beginning.

4. 1 Corinthians 15 says, the First man Adam was a life giving soul, the 2nd Adam...Jesus Christ, is a life giving Spirit. Jesus came to save our souls. Our sinful nature comes from our soul. Our soul is where the heart is...our inner most central point of our conscience. Our Conscience (those born again) are purged and cleansed by the Blood of Jesus...Hebrews
We are a New Creation IN CHRIST ONLY . Our redemption is in Jesus Christ alone. We (Born Again Christians) having identified with Christ in death and resurrection life, having been raised up together with HIM, are baptized into HIS BODY, forming the Church. He is the Head of the Body, just as Adam was the Head of Eve. There is no need for another Eve, for WE are His Bride, His Body. It's through Jesus Blood we are washed and redeemed and purchased. Mary shed no blood. Hebrews 10. We enter through the Veil, that is to say *HIS* Flesh to the Father. The Church, His Bride, is Flesh of His Flesh and Bone of His Bone.



5. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1
And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same, that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels, but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Galatians 3:16
Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, And to seeds, as of many, but as of one, And to your Seed, who is Christ.


THEREFORE>>>>>>

6. There is only "*ONE* SEED" who is Christ. Mary, being immaculately conceived would have to be ANOTHER SEED ….so Their Mary is not the Mary of Scripture, making her jesus not the Jesus of Scripture. You see if God overshadowed Mary's mothers womb it would make Mary fully God /fully Human as well. There is no scripture about a 2nd Eve, and if there were, scripture would be very open and clear about that. In making that possible, for her to be an independent Eve created totally apart, would make her a goddess or a god…and we know this is not so.

BUT …..

IF God HAD created a second Adam and Eve as he did originally, The New Eve would be taken out of the 2nd ( Jesus Christ’s) Adam's side, Mary then would have to be formed out of Jesus rib for her to be the New Eve. We know that didn’t happen. We, His Church , His Bride, His Body is Flesh of His flesh and bone of his bone.


Catholicism is a false Gospel, an accursed Gospel. Do you see how dangerous this teaching leads to? It's anti-christ pure and simple.

God WILL NEVER compromise the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ in this way, by a divided heart and distorted theology.... NEVER in all eternity!!!

Also.....
Mary wasn't even brought up until around the 300-400 AD in Greece, when the Catholic church wanted to bring the Greeks under their power, and Greece not wanting to give up their virgin goddess Diana, The RCC offered up Mary to take Diana's place. No mention of Mary (as they worship her now) in the Catholic Church before that time.


Love in Christ
Katy-did




_________________

 2007/8/13 8:09
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 i thought...

sis K-D
Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

i thought we had exhausted this issue of Mary and Eve and all. i have no thing further to say on it save that i was saved out of Catholicism and am not going back.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/8/13 13:14Profile









 Re: i thought...

Ironman: I am so delighted you :

Quote:
i was saved out of Catholicism and am not going back.



But with these recent scriptures you praised God for......

Rom.8
Quote:
Romans 8[14] For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

[16] The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:




This one especially **addresses** the Issues of Mary and Eve and all.

Quote:
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

***OVERCOMERS***...Remember!!! Do you even know what an overcomer is? Overcoming FALSE doctrine is a major part...just look at all the 7 letters , and how God rebukes the false teachers...jezebel etc, co-mingling in the Church. The luke warm are those who stick their head in the sand and don't want to take a stand....but really don't have eyes to see or ears to hear the dangers.

I wasn't aware the subject had changed, but ALL truth working together for good. The subject has not changed at all. The Catholic Church is earthly...not overcomers, yet we *in Christ* ARE.

If the Church is bone of His Bone and Flesh of His flesh....that makes Eve a TYPE of Church, His Bride...*US*, no need for a New EVE, or that teaching.....it's only anti-christ, and will draw you away from who you are IN CHRIST ALONE.

WE His Church, His Body, His Bride is that chase Virgin that will be presented without spot or wrinkle, just as teh 144,000 also virgins who's loyalty is to Jesus Christ and He alone...no co-mingling with the world/ or false doctrine...being adulterers and adultresses!

Co-Mingling these truths is unacceptable. Many Catholic teachings are far to reaching in the Protestant Churches and has weakened the Faith....with many now practicing Ash Wed and Lent...a very Catholic tradition, that began to creap in after WWII.

You still seem very sensative about many Catholic teachings that you seem to want to hold on to, or ignore rather then address.

Even if you are not going back, I pray you will let go! The subject never Changed one bit...you just haven't yet seen the connection of all the conversations and the dangers of these false teachings working against the True Church.

With Love in Christ
Katy-did


PS Added/ Edited for content...

In Placing Mary in Genesis 3:15 and Revelation 12 is where they come up with her being Co Redemptress, and all those other Co's, including saying SHE is the Ark of the Covenant......but WE,and we alone, His Church are Co-heirs.

Young men overcome the Evil one...1st John....Satan is the evil one who is a liar and was from the moment he opened his mouth. We overcome those lies of his as we press on for the Prize of the High Calling of God in Christ Jesus.

 2007/8/14 4:42









 Re:

IRONMAN PART 2

Just to show I'm not making this up, please read.....:

By the RCC:

MARY AS CO-REDEMPTRIX, MEDIATRIXAND ADVOCATE





An important document about Mary has been issued under the imprimatur of Bishop Sheldon of Steubenville, OH. It is a theological study written by Dr. (Priest) Mark Miravelle, and centers around the stated hope: "There is only one final action that remains in bringing the Marian roles of Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate into the fullest acknowledgement and ecclesial life of the People of God; that our Holy Father, in his office as Vicar of Christ proclaim the Marian roles of Co-Redemptrix, Mediatrix of all graces and Advocate for the people of God as Christian dogma revealed by God, in rightful veneration of the Mother of Jesus, and for the good of the one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church of Christ. Dr. Miravelle, prefaces each section with a verse of scripture:

Genesis 3:15 - Old Testament prophecy of the Co-Redemptrix.

Isaiah 7:14 - Mother of the Suffering Servant

Luke 1:38 - New Testament beginning of Co-Redemptrix

Luke 2:35 - Presentation Prophecy of the Co-Redemptrix

John 19:26 - Climax of the Co-Redemptrix

I Timothy 2:5 - Sharing in the One Mediation of Christ

Luke 1:38 - Mediatrix of Christ: Source of all Grace

Luke 1:41 - Mediatrix in the Visitation of Graces

John 2:1 - Mediatrix of the 1st Miracle and Public Ministry of Christ

John 19:26 - The Establishment of the Mediatrix of All Grace

Acts 1:4 - The Holy Spirit and the Mediatrix of All Grace

I Ki 2:8,15; 2 Ki 11:24; Proverbs 31:8,9 - O.T. Role of Queen Mother

Revelation 12:1 - Advocate and Queen for the People of God

Revelation 22:17 - The Spirit and the Advocate


Love in Christ
Katy-did

PS The ONLY *CO-Anything* in scripture is the Church, His Body, as Co-Heirs. Buried with Him in Baptism of death and raised up together with Him, baptized into His Body , making the Church, His Bride, by that self same Spirit...a New Creation...In Christ...Christ in you, our Hope of Glory!

 2007/8/14 8:27
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 hold up sis...

sis K-D

Greetings in Jesus' Name by WHose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

i do understand that those who overcome, overcome the world and all its trappings, false docrtines and all. This is why i press into God all the more because He spurs me to, He knows i don't want to be running around here deceived in anywise.

Quote:
I wasn't aware the subject had changed, but ALL truth working together for good. The subject has not changed at all. The Catholic Church is earthly...not overcomers, yet we *in Christ* ARE.



i had said all i felt led to say as succinctly and simply as i could and so i didn't feel the need to say anything further. sis i agree with you that the Catholic doctrine on Mary as comediatrix, co-redemptrix are wrong. i'm not arguing that with you because there is nothing to argue about. what i am saying is that the devil doesn't invent anything new, every lie that he tells is a perversion of the Truth of God. so if Catholicism being of the devil says that Mary is co-redemptrix/mediatrix based on certain scriptures, this is because the enemy has perverted a Truth of God to deceive men. so what i see is this, Mary is represented there (or is there in the women in question) in Genesis 3:15 since Jesus is her seed, her child in a very real sense. She is also there in woman with the 12 stars, who we know to be ISrael also. She is this woman too (although we know some things don't apply to her so the woman is not only Mary, but Israel also) because she is a Jewess (Israel) and she did give birth to Jesus really. That is the Truth which the enemy has perverted by saying that this also makes Mary Co-redemptrix and mediatrix both conclusions are of Satan. i see your point sis but it would seem that you have yet to be quickened to what i am trying to get accross. One can most certainly separate the Truth from the lie in the searching of the word. See i see a much broader context for Gen 3:15 than Eve, Israel and Mary and can see those persons in that verse as i view that verse in the Eternal Context, this doesn't make me go for the Romish lie but rather see right through and call it for what it is.

Quote:
If the Church is bone of His Bone and Flesh of His flesh....that makes Eve a TYPE of Church, His Bride...*US*, no need for a New EVE, or that teaching.....it's only anti-christ, and will draw you away from who you are IN CHRIST ALONE.



it seems you too are seeing the broader context of Gen 3:15! now what you shared here i hadn't even considered but i can bear witness to it.

Quote:
Co-Mingling these truths is unacceptable. Many Catholic teachings are far to reaching in the Protestant Churches and has weakened the Faith....with many now practicing Ash Wed and Lent...a very Catholic tradition, that began to creap in after WWII.



exactly, and this is why i have tried to go to great pains to let you know how God has given me Grace to divide the Truth (and retain it) from the lie (and discard it) on this issue of Gen 3:15. yes i see Mary in ther, and ISrael, and now the Church, however i don't see Mary in this or any other scripture which alludes to her in the same way put forth by these damned Popish doctrines.

Quote:
You still seem very sensative about many Catholic teachings that you seem to want to hold on to, or ignore rather then address.



if i may be blunt sis, you're dead wrong about me here. i told you in no uncertain terms that i am not going back to that mess. this has complicated my relationship with my mom (who is devoutly catholic) but by His Grace i am past that point of wanting to salvage that if it means going back to Catholicism. sis either you haven't read fully what i have said, and i believe i have gone to great pains to make my position clear, else you would see clearly that i have been given Grace to separate the Truth from the Lie in this matter. it seems our Lord hasn't quickened you to see what He has shown me as yet for reasons that are His own. i pray He does though. i have ignored nothing you have brought up but sought to address each point as clearly as i could.

Quote:
Even if you are not going back, I pray you will let go! The subject never Changed one bit...you just haven't yet seen the connection of all the conversations and the dangers of these false teachings working against the True Church.



but i already have let go sis, i turned my back on that mess years ago. i felt i made my position abundantly clear but it seems you haven't seen that. you have equated my seeing Mary in those 2 scriptures with believing in her as co-redemtress/mediatrix and that is not true at all. it is like saying because i am black i am automatically a hooligan, which is not true. yes i see Mary in those sciptures but no i disagree vehemently with the Catholic view because i have been shown how Mary fits into those 2 sciptures/contexts properly without grasping at straws to make her out to be something she is not but only Christ can be. yes i am black but no i am not a hooligan. does that make it clear sis? :-(

Quote:
In Placing Mary in Genesis 3:15 and Revelation 12 is where they come up with her being Co Redemptress, and all those other Co's, including saying SHE is the Ark of the Covenant......but WE,and we alone, His Church are Co-heirs.



yes this is true, the reason being that it is true that Mary is in those 2 scriptures but the enemy, the vile liar that he is, twisted that truth to have men believe that this presence of Mary in those scriptures makes her equal to Christ which is blasphemy. The devil didn't just make that up, he based it on a Truth and perverted it. you know very well that the worst lies are those which are so close to the Truth you need a very fine comb to divide the 2...

i have no idea how they got Mary to be the Ark of the Covenant also, that is beyond me sis, but the devil is slick...

Quote:
Young men overcome the Evil one...1st John....Satan is the evil one who is a liar and was from the moment he opened his mouth. We overcome those lies of his as we press on for the Prize of the High Calling of God in Christ Jesus.



AMEN, this is how and why our Lord has allowed me to separate the lie from the Truth in this matter. After this i don't even know how else or how more simply i can put this. God knows my conscience is clear sis, i've made every effort to make his plain as i know how. if you don't yet understand it, i pray God open this up to you when and how He sees fit.AMEN.

i love you in our Lord sis and give thanks for what He has shown me through you and i pray our Lord has ministered something to you through me.AMEN.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/8/15 4:16Profile









 Re: hold up sis...

IRONMAN, I did not intend to offend you, as it appears I have, but just trying to make a connection with all that has been said through out this whole blog, also concerning Israel. And Yes, Satan will do anything to thwart what rightfully belongs to them. I posted a great article about Genesis 3:15 and Rev 12 from that perspective.

You said:

Quote:
exactly, and this is why i have tried to go to great pains to let you know how God has given me Grace to divide the Truth (and retain it) from the lie (and discard it) on this issue of Gen 3:15. yes i see Mary in ther, and ISrael, and now the Church, however i don't see Mary in this or any other scripture which alludes to her in the same way put forth by these damned Popish doctrines.




There is only ONE correct interpretation...it's either Mary, OR Israel, OR the Church, and each will lead to a different conclusion and a diferent ending. But "It is finished", and regardless of how we want to interpret, there is still only ONE correct ending...and YES this does affect how we see and understand the end times. How we see and hear and understand these end times is to have eyes to see and ears to hear....leading the Saint to be burning with the FIRE of that TRUTH warning others....."you're going the wrong way", or "YES, it's this way...keep going, or "come out of her my people". If you say it's all three, how will you know what two is incorrect? There are not several endings to this story, no alternative endings you can play on your DVD, and then decide which one you like the best!!!!


God Bless Ironman! I'll say no more!
Katy-did

:-)

PS added/edited for content
You would ask, does it really matter and why...I know I'm saved, I'm God elect, and that is all that matters...well....

If it were that easy, no need would there be for the 7 warning letters to the Churches...no need at all, because the warning letters are about this very thing...a little leaven ruins the whole lump.

Look at all the books written today on end time prophesy....1,000 variations on a theme...and who is correct, and how do you know for sure.

We have, Pre, Mid, Post Trib, Revelation taken so literally that people think there will actually/literally be horses with human heads with scorpion stingers...Do we know what is symbolic and what is literal, and can anyone even agree? Yet does it all affect how we live each day? Some say...oh I'm saved, can't lose that, God picked me, and all the rest are made for hell. But not all believe that. Do the ones that do see an urgency to witness and warn? NO!

In these last days, God IS revealing more and more to His Saints...more than He did to Calvin and Luther. Yet so many fall back on Calvin and Luther. We have SOOOO much more light now then they did. Could they imagine the whole world being able to SEE the two witnesses dead in the street and raised up again? NO, because they could not possibly conceive a TV, Internet etc, as we have today, making that seen in a different way. I'm sure they spiritualized it away.

Many Christian during WWII departed from the faith because they KNEW it was the end, that Hitler WAS the antichrist.....everything had the perfect earmarks, but one thing they failed to see,.... Israel was not back in their land. I'm sure they were relying on Calvin or Luther?!!

That Prophecy and promise that has now being fulfilled....yet more to come...* Isaiah 14

Yes, we need to pay close attention to detail. The Lord is preparing His Church TODAY for something....lets pay attention to details...for none are too small.
ONE Body
ONE Lord
ONE Spirit
ONE Baptism,
ONE Faith
Even as ye are called in ONE Hope of your Calling.

Love in Christ
Katy-did

 2007/8/15 19:34





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