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 Re:

The CHURCH would never sing the SONG OF MOSES..... do you know that song? Pharoh/Egypt/world/earthly dominion and power!!!


Revelation 15:3
And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvellous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.

Romans 11:25-27
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.



Apostate Christianity....the anti-christ movement would LOVE for you to believe Israel is the Harlot. Take heed my friends who you join yourselves with in these last days.


And there arose in Egypt a King who knew not Joseph!!!!!! Gentile arrogance.

Yet when Joseph was sold into Egypt, a type of Christ, rejected of his brothers, was blessed, because he did not bow to the egyptian gods, even at point of death. Egypt on the otherhand honored Joseph'd God, and that brought blessings to Egypt, and in doing so brought blessings to Israel..... they looked upon him whom they *pierced*(thought they had killed...sold into slavery).

Yes, Romans 11 and the story of Joseph have a parallel, ...Gentiles are blessed through the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob....

But as we see again( history repeats itself....there arose a King in Egypt...anti-christ..who knew not the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob (Gentile arrogance, Gentile Religions) who will and have to this day persecuted God's chosem people, thinking God has done away with Israel ....read and weep!!!!!!

Romans 11: 28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.


Love in Christ
Katy-did ;-)

 2007/8/2 12:09
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Logic

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved. AMEN.


Quote:
I gave plenty of back up scripture to testify for thyis to be true.



what you have stated seems at best a twisting of scripture to suit your own view. Then again dear bro, it may well be me who is wrong so i pray God straighten this out that we may both come to a Right understanding of what is going on here.AMEN.

Quote:
Not "come out of hiding", but became the harlot while in the wilderness.



bro Logic, if she goes to a place which God has prepared for her to be nourished for this whole period, and i believe she is nourished the whole time by God, how could she become the harlot if God is feeding her? :-? or has God abandoned her and therefore has lied about the provision he was to make for her? :-?

Quote:
the remnant of her offspring is the Church, because we keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ, not Israel.



bro if the offspring is Right before God, how can the mother then be unrepentant. Cows can't give birth to lions. help me understand how you believe Israel as this woman is unrepentant and yet God has made such provision for her and her seed keeps the commandments of God? Now Israel for the most part now is unsaved, but the trib hasn't happened yet and God will yet Judge her to bring her to Repentance that she may take her place Eschatologically. Israel will have too the testimony of Jesus...as soon as we as the Church do what we have been called to do and bring her to Jealousy by Representing God as He is to her that she may be Saved. if Israel is unsaved, we bear some responsibility in that for our failiure to bring her to jealousy by the flaky, cheapy, shallow Christianity (if we can call it that) which we practise. For all their hard-heartedness, Jews have a knack it seems for spotting cheap imitations and they don't go for the okie-doke...we better get on the ball saints...

Quote:
Who is called a harlot all through the Bible?



ah yes Israel is oft called a harlot because of her idolatry and spiritual infidelity...now if God calls Israel a harlot for this, what shall he call the Church which does these same things? a harlot? Now Paul says he wants to present the church at Corinth as a chaste virgin to Christ so they should hold fast to the Faith...what would the opposite of that be but a harlot? while it may not be expressed explicitly, the idea of spiritual infidelity as it pertains to the church=harlotry just as it does with Israel.

Quote:
God is dealing with Israel, not Rome. Rome is not married to any one, but Israel is(was) married to God. After the Church and true Israel is raptured, all that is left is the whore.



i beg to differ bro Logic. Yes Rome isn't married to anyone but one need not be married to be a harlot. i fear this escapist mentality of rapture before purification has warped many sa saint's view of not only Eschatology, the Church and ISrael, but even God Himself. if the Church was not meant to be here in those days, what need would there be in giving the Revelation since it was FOR the Church? bro Logic, the whose sits on many multitudes and nations and i can tell you, Israel has had no such influence over the world.Rome has by the spread of catholicism and its dealings with kings of nations.this woman is said to rule over the kings of the earth, Rome has such influence.Also the beast makes war with her seed which is yet on earth during this time so i see no rapture if it means escaping the fire of this time. There are saints here yet in Rev 18 being warned to come out of Babylon before the Judgment falls on her. This happens just before Rev 19 in which Jesus Returns...the rapture occurs at this point because the return of Christ is never said to be a secret but rather an even that all men shall see and Christ Himself never said He would come secretly for the Church and then again later. To say that Paul suggested such i believe is a gross misinterpretaion of scripture, a perversion of it from the enemy which will leave many woefully unprepared for the period of cleansing which we must first pass through to be proven to be Right before God.

thanks for the list of the mountains, are they 14 in all or 7 with 2 different names each?

Quote:
mountains, however, are Kingdoms as Babylon is in this verse and God's Kingdoms is in the one after it.



yes they are but that is not the only application for mountain in the word. Mountains can be literal mountains like here in Matt 4:8

[b]Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; [/b]

matt 17: 20

[b]And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you. [/b]

in Rev 8:8 a mountain is something else (perhaps a comet...a big one)

[b]And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; [/b]

The references in scripture for mountain for the most part are literal mountains, on occasion it is a nation.

anyhow bro, may God straighten us both out where we are wrong that His Name may be Glorified forever.AMEN.

i will say though that your view of unrepentant Israel being the harlot has some truth to it. That being those Jews which are unsaved will be one with those people who are unsaved, Catholic, protestant, hindu, muslim and all the other religions under the ecumenical umbrella fostered by Rome. i had not considered this but i bless God for what He said through you to bring that to light.

Grace and PEace be ours in Jesus' Name.AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/8/2 12:26Profile









 Re:

Logic,

We do know Isaiah 14 has not yet come to pass, but it will. Verse 7 clairifies that. Also the STARS also refer to Israel. Seems to me that Mystery Babylon here is the Mother of Harlots. Babylon is not the Jews, but rather Gentile world power, Gentile arrogance.


Isaiah 14
1For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob.

2And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors.

3And it shall come to pass in the day that the LORD shall give thee rest from thy sorrow, and from thy fear, and from the hard bondage wherein thou wast made to serve,

4That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!

5The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers.

6He who smote the people in wrath with a continual stroke, he that ruled the nations in anger, is persecuted, and none hindereth.

[b][color=CC0000]7The whole earth is at rest, and is quiet: they break forth into singing.[/color][/b]

[u][i][b](This will happen ONLY during the 1000 Year Kingdom Reign of Jesus Christ) [/b][/i][/u]

8Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us.

9Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

10All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

11Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

18All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

19But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

20Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

21Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

22For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.

23I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.

24The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:

25That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.

[b][color=CC0000]26This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
27For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back? [/color][/b]


28In the year that king Ahaz died was this burden.

29Rejoice not thou, whole Palestina, because the rod of him that smote thee is broken: for out of the serpent's root shall come forth a cockatrice, and his fruit shall be a fiery flying serpent.

30And the firstborn of the poor shall feed, and the needy shall lie down in safety: and I will kill thy root with famine, and he shall slay thy remnant.

31Howl, O gate; cry, O city; thou, whole Palestina, art dissolved: for there shall come from the north a smoke, and none shall be alone in his appointed times.

32What shall one then answer the messengers of the nation? That the LORD hath founded Zion, and the poor of his people shall trust in it.


Love in Christ
Katy-did

 2007/8/2 14:16
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
bro Logic
Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved. AMEN.
Quote:
I gave plenty of back up scripture to testify for thyis to be true.

what you have stated seems at best a twisting of scripture to suit your own view. Then again dear bro, it may well be me who is wrong so i pray God straighten this out that we may both come to a Right understanding of what is going on here.

No, I was just comparing the Preiestly garments are take gold, and blue, and [u]purple[/u], and [b]scarlet[b], and fine linen(Exodus 28:5-9), just as the woman was arrayed in [u]purple[/u] and [u]scarlet[/u] color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls(Rev 17:4)
Using the Scripture to reveal Scripture.

Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
Quote:
Not "come out of hiding", but became the harlot while in the wilderness.

bro Logic, if she goes to a place which God has prepared for her to be nourished for this whole period, and i believe she is nourished the whole time by God,


The verse said that "they they should feed her there"
Not God.
The they refers back to the verse before, which would be the Nations that the "male child" was to rule all nations with a rod of iron.(Rev 12:5-6)

Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
bro if the offspring is Right before God, how can the mother then be unrepentant.

My Dad is not save.
Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
Cows can't give birth to lions.

Bad comparison.

Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
help me understand how you believe Israel as this woman is unrepentant and yet God has made such provision for her and her seed keeps the commandments of God?

Christainity is the consumation if Judaism.
Israel is still unrepentant waiting for their Masiah.
They reject Christ, they are still the harlot.
Are they being faithful to God now? Then what do you suppose God will calol them.
However, God still bleeses Israel, favores them, defends them, and will never forget them.
The Trib is so that they will repent.

Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
Now Israel for the most part now is unsaved, but the trib hasn't happened yet and God will yet Judge her to bring her to Repentance that she may take her place Eschatologically.

my point exactly.

Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
Israel [b]will[/b] have too the testimony of Jesus...as soon as we as the Church do what we have been called to do and bring her to Jealousy by Representing God as He is to her that she may be Saved.

Yes, they [b]will[/b], then they will be repentant.
As I said, the Harlot is [b]Unrepentant Israel[/b]

Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
ah yes Israel is oft called a harlot because of her idolatry and spiritual infidelity...now if God calls Israel a harlot for this, what shall he call the Church which does these same things?

The [b]true[/b] Church of God(You and I) does not do the same things.

Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
i beg to differ bro Logic. Yes Rome isn't married to anyone but one need not be married to be a harlot.

Go back to Hosea;
Hosea married the harlot Gomer,
Hosea represents God, Gomer represents Israel. Where in the Bible is any body els callde a harlot. Must keep it that way.

Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
bro Logic, the whose sits on many multitudes and nations and i can tell you, Israel has had no such influence over the world

It's not about influance.
[b]Psalm 1:1[/b] [color=990000]Blessed is the man that walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor [b]sits[/b] in the seat of the scornful.[/color]

It is about gouing along with them or taking rest with them.

Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
thanks for the list of the mountains, are they 14 in all or 7 with 2 different names each?

2 different names each.

Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
yes they are but that is not the only application for mountain in the word. Mountains can be literal mountains like here in Matt 4:8...
...The references in scripture for mountain for the most part are literal mountains, on occasion it is a nation.

[b]Rev 17:9[/b] [color=990000]And here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sits.[/color]

If a woman is symbolic and the heads are symbolic, then the Mounts are too.
Why keep the woman symbolic if the mount become literal?

 2007/8/2 15:08Profile









 Re:

James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Revelation 2:22
Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Who is God talking to? Adultery with Who? Certainly not Israel. ….But idolatry.
Rev 2:20Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. 21And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. 22Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. 23And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
Now read about the TALE OF TWO CITIES… THE EARTH AND ALL IT’S PRIDE....

Revelation 18: 7How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

Ezekiel 28
1The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
2Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyre, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God

8Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

Isaiah 23:15
And it shall come to pass in that day, that Tyre shall be forgotten seventy years, according to the days of one king: after the end of seventy years shall Tyre sing as an harlot.

Who and what does TYRE represent?


Tyre is an ancient Phoenician city and the legendary birthplace of Europa and Elissa (Dido). Today it is the fourth largest city in Lebanon [4] and houses one of the nation's major ports known locally in French as Soûr. Tyre is a popular destination for tourists. The city has many ancient sites, including its Roman Hippodrome which was added to UNESCO's list of World Heritage Sites in 1979 (Resolution 459).[2]
The name Phoenician is of Greek origin. The Greek ethnonym Phoinikes is attested since Homer, and as early as Linear B po-ni-ki-jo, ultimately borrowed from Ancient Egyptian Fnkw "Syrian people".[5] It became connected with φοῖνιξ phoînix "purple" (cf. also Phoenix): cloth dyed with Haustellum brandaris was a typically Phoenician product. Latin Poenicus, later Punicus "Punian" is derived from the Greek term. The term is an exonym, and the self-designation of Phoenicians was divided by cities: a native of Sidon would call himself "Sidonian", a native of Carthage a "Carthaginian" etc., and collectively bani kan'an "Children of Canaan,"[citation needed].

The following were among the deities(gods) in the Phoenician or Canaanite pantheon.[6]

•Adon(is), handsome young god
•Anath, goddess of Love and war, the maiden
•Asherah or Baalat Gubl, goddess of Byblos
•Astarte (or Ashtarte), queen of Heaven
•Baal, El, Ruler of the Universe, son of Dagan, rider of the clouds, Almighty, Lord of the Earth
•Baal-Hammon, god of fertility and renewer of all energies in the Phoenician colonies of the Western Mediterranean
•Baal-Sidon, this could just mean 'god of Sidon', also possible is that it was a deification of a patriarch
•Dagon, god of crop fertility.
•Eshmun or Baalat Asclepius, god of healing
•Kathirat, goddesses of marriage and pregnancy
•Kothar, Hasis, the skilled, god of craftsmanship
•Melqart, king of the underworld and cycle of vegetation
•Mot, god of death and of the underworld.
•Resheph, god of illnesses and plagues.
•Shamash, god of the Sun
•Shahar, god of dawn
•Shalim, god of dusk
•Shapash, sun goddess
•Tanit, chief goddess of Carthage
•Yamm, god of the sea, judge of the dead.
•Yarikh, moon god

Much like ancient Rome and all their false gods...or Modern Romanism, only changing clothing, but still keeping their same gods, just calling them saints, or the virgin Goddess of Heaven.

Diana also a virgin goddess!

Just like TYRE:
9And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

10Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

11And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

12The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

13And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

14And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

15The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

16And saying, Alas, alas that great city, that was clothed in fine linen, and purple, and scarlet, and decked with gold, and precious stones, and pearls!

17For in one hour so great riches is come to nought. And every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off,

18And cried when they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, What city is like unto this great city!

19And they cast dust on their heads, and cried, weeping and wailing, saying, Alas, alas that great city, wherein were made rich all that had ships in the sea by reason of her costliness! for in one hour is she made desolate.

20Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

21And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.

22And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;

23And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.

24And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Ezekiel 28
1The word of the LORD came again unto me, saying,
2Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyre, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:

The TALE OF TWO CITIES. Where do you live? Earthly worldly, Gentile World Power, or Heavenly!




And what about the faithful Remnant of Israel....will they put theoir trust and faith in Gentile world power...not according to Revelation 15....they sang the song of Moses and overcame the beast.

Love in Christ
Katy-did

 2007/8/2 16:47
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Logic
Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

Quote:
No, I was just comparing the Preiestly garments are take gold, and blue, and purple, and scarlet[b], and fine linen(Exodus 28:5-9), just as the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet color, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls(Rev 17:4)



praise God for what you said here coz it put things into perspective and i see more clearly where you are coming from now. in my previous post i began to see a bit about how unrepentant ISrael would be part of this false world religion. Now that i see the comparison with the priestly garments of old, i see more clearly. thanks bro.

Quote:
The verse said that "they they should feed her there"The they refers back to the verse before, which would be the Nations that the "male child" was to rule all nations with a rod of iron.(Rev 12:5-6)



now i believe that the provision of the Lord for this woman is such that it would not allow her to become this harlot. i feel still that apostacy of Rome has much to do with this and the JEws who will not repent will jump in with this crowd.

Quote:
My Dad is not save.



i was not talking solely of physical progeny but rather Spiritual progeny. John called the church in his epistles "little children" but this was not a reference to him being their physical father but spiritual father. Paul spoke of being a spiritual father also. the progeny here that i was talking about is Spiritual. so to put it into perspective, the spiritual progeny of this woman Israel, keeps the commands of Christ so she must also because to be born into that Spirit requires that whoever is birthing is also in that Spirit.This is the perspective in which i was speaking about a cow giving birth to a lion. an unsaved man can't save an unsaved man. if one doesn't have Salvation, he can't give it. Furthermore Israel is indeed at present playing the harlot but so are we in many regards so we too need to repent so i would not be so quick to place the Church in heaven during the trib in the way you are speaking.

Quote:
The true Church of God(You and I) does not do the same things.



we don't? dear brother if you can say to anyone, or profess before God that you have no idols or other sin which has yet to be purged from you then praise God for the Consummation of the work of Perfecting you in Jesus! i have yet much to repent of, some things i am unaware of as yet. Do you yet have sin you are guilty of which you must repent of or have you repented of all and no longer commit them? the Church has placed idols all over the place and worships them. don't tell me the true Church isn't guilty of such because that is a lie. We ought NOT be guilty of them indeed but there is something hindering the Full Manifestation on this side of what happened when we received Holy Spirit and were Saved. We have yet to see that purging take Full Effect in our lives in our thoughts, intents, attitudes, words and deeds. if your brother is backslidden, we have a responsibility to restore that brother or else the whole body will be affected. This is the Nature of our Bond, that we are One and so if one suffers, we all do, Christianity is not an individualistic faith because what happens to one brother affects others. We are Perfected in Christ, our inner man is Renewed but there must be evidence of it in our lives and in many respects this is lacking so we too need fire to be brought to repentance which is why i believe we will be here during the Trib. After all who will tend to her with the message of the gospel if the Church is gone? YEs there is the 144000, but the Church at some point must move Israel to Jealousy not by being whisked away in rapture but by Demonstrating the Faith to ISrael, that is the only thing which can do this.



Quote:
Hosea represents God, Gomer represents Israel. Where in the Bible is any body els callde a harlot. Must keep it that way.



Rahab was a harlot, and she was a gentile...mmm. could it be that perhaps from the Gentile church there could some some who will make up the harlot? Israel i also called a virgin mind you so she is not a harlot all the time and i belive in Rev 12 she is chaste in that she faithfully does as God requires, giving birth to His Son.

Quote:
It's not about influance.



oh but it is bro, how can 2 people walk together if they don't agree?

Quote:
Psalm 1:1 Blessed is the man that walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor stands in the way of sinners, nor sits in the seat of the scornful.



to walk in the counsel of the ungodly is to be influenced by them. to sit in the seat of the scournful would be to be influenced by them and also to influence them. Birds of a feather flock together right? to go along with such is to also push them along.

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2 different names each.



thanks bro.


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If a woman is symbolic and the heads are symbolic, then the Mounts are too.
Why keep the woman symbolic if the mount become literal?



who's keeping the woman symbolic? :-? i said the woman is Israel, not that she is a symbol for her. There is a duality here which God has quickened me to which seems to be going over people's heads for the most part...it makes for a lonely road so i pray God quicken more of us to this coz this can get hard...JOhn described what he was in the spirit, so he literally did see this woman and these things so it is literal in that sense. Some of the manifestations of these literal spiritual things may not necessarily be the same in the physical but they have an physical equivelent which we will see. We may not see a beast coming out of the sea...but i would not be surprised if God switched it on us and we saw this literally happen in the physical...what would we say then? :-P "oh snap!...hey is that the beast in Revelation...whoa...i need to call someone..."

bro Logic, you are as your name says, logical. like Spock almost...in some areas this restrict the moves of God in one's life as we are closed thinking that God would not do such coz it doesn't make sense. as God has been dealing with me, i have found that the scriptures have a far much broader context than we perceive. in fact the Context of scripture is Eternal because God is Eternal. if you think of a diamond and how it is cut and has all these facets, looking at it from a different angle allows us to see a different color of light being shone...even from the same facet. so it is with scripture. in this discourse i have seen that the harlot on the beast is not just Rome, but includes apostate Israel and other religions also apart from Christianity in it's True Sense. it was the same scripture, same harlot but God showed me more about it through you.

The revelation is an interesting book and we tend to read it as linear and it is to a degree. We must remember that God sees past present and future all at the same time. if we look at the Revelation (and indeed the whole bible) in this light, it makes sense. paul says we are seated in Heavenly places, NOW. the Revelation tells us Jesus was slain from the foundation of the world and our names were written in that Book of the Lamb at that point so our Salvation itself is at that point...yet we must live and step into it on earth...but all the while our names have been written in heaven already so we are there...then Paul says we are there now, and we wait to go there still when all is done...wow. the word says of Christ, or should i say, He says of Himself He is Alpha and Omega and also He who Was, Is, and Is to come...being associated with Him, we too were (saved from the foundations of the world at his slaying), are (stepping into Salvation on earth and then being counted as being in Heavenly places already) and are to come, (waiting for His return to take us to Heaven) there is the multitude which couldn't be numbered which John saw and these are those who washed their robes in the Blood of the Lamb...This is every last saint yet the trib is going on and there are yet people being saved...see how it is? The whole number of saints is complete in Heaven and yet there are some to be saved during the trib...read young's literal translation and try and keep up with the tenses...God sometimes says something as future, past, or present and by reading that translation, i got a glimpse of God's Omnipresence in time...that was a blessed thing...oh wait, it is a blessed thing and will yet be a blessed thing!

Grace and Peace be ours in Jesus Name.AMEN.

p.s. bro Logic and all, i would like for you to know that i would much rather prefer to endure the whole tribulation period (knowing that God Protects His own during this) and be completely purged of every last bit of iniquity in me, than to come to the Bema seat of Christ and be surprised by Him saying that i did some things right but messed up in areas by doing things for my own glory and not His. i do not want Him to say to me to get away from Him even after prophesying and casting out demons and healing people...i'm not trying to diminish His Glory in any way and so for that cause i will endure whatever must be endured because He will give me Grace to do so because it is my desire...which He placed in me.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/8/2 17:31Profile









 Re:

Quote:
p.s. bro Logic and all, i would like for you to know that i would much rather prefer to endure the whole tribulation period (knowing that God Protects His own during this) and be completely purged of every last bit of iniquity in me, than to come to the Bema seat of Christ and be surprised by Him saying that i did some things right but messed up in areas by doing things for my own glory and not His. i do not want Him to say to me to get away from Him even after prophesying and casting out demons and healing people...i'm not trying to diminish His Glory in any way and so for that cause i will endure whatever must be endured because He will give me Grace to do so because it is my desire...which He placed in me.




If the Lord came today would you be ready? Or are you waiting for the great tribulation to make you ready? What if you died before the great tribulation, would you not then be ready? What about the Saints from the beginning of the Church Age,…..have they missed out on this time of purification????
Paul said:
1 Corinthians 2:5
That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God!!

When God parted the Red Sea, was it explained by Logic? Can we reason it? Or rather as many do reason it away?

What is the Lord doing with His Church TODAY, in this PRESENT TIME?

What did Paul say about himself IN THIS PRESENT TIME, the beginning of the Church age….. 2 Timothy 4:8

Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

What did Peter say about himself IN THIS PRESENT TIME, the beginning of the Church age…… 1 Peter 1:7

That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

What did John say about himself IN THIS PRESENT TIME, the beginning of the Church age ……..1 John 3:2-3 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

What is happening IN THIS PRESENT TIME?

Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: **OF THIS PRESENT TIME**

2 Timothy 3:12
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
**OF THIS PRESENT TIME**

Romans 8:18
For I reckon that the SUFFERINGS **OF THIS PRESENT TIME** are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.)

2 Corinthians 1:5
For as the SUFFERINGS of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ. **OF THIS PRESENT TIME**

2 Corinthians 1:6
And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same SUFFERINGS which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. **OF THIS PRESENT TIME**

2 Corinthians 1:7
And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the SUFFERINGS, so shall ye be also of the consolation. **OF THIS PRESENT TIME**

Philippians 3:10
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his SUFFERINGS, being made conformable unto his death; **OF THIS PRESENT TIME**

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my SUFFERINGS for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:) **OF THIS PRESENT TIME**

Hebrews 2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through SUFFERINGS.

1 Peter 1:11
Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the SUFFERINGS of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

1 Peter 4:13
But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's SUFFERINGS; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy. **OF THIS PRESENT TIME**

1 Peter 5:1
The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the SUFFERINGS of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: **OF THIS PRESENT TIME**

John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have TRIBULATION: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world. **OF THIS PRESENT TIME**

Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much TRIBULATION enter into the kingdom of God. **OF THIS PRESENT TIME**

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in TRIBULATIONs also: knowing that TRIBULATION worketh patience; **OF THIS PRESENT TIME**

Romans 8:35
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall TRIBULATION, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? **OF THIS PRESENT TIME**

Romans 12:12
Rejoicing in hope; patient in TRIBULATION; continuing instant in prayer; **OF THIS PRESENT TIME**

2 Corinthians 1:4
Who comforteth us in all our TRIBULATION, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God. **OF THIS PRESENT TIME**

2 Corinthians 7:4
Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our TRIBULATION. **OF THIS PRESENT TIME**

Ephesians 3:13
Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my TRIBULATIONs for you, which is your glory. **OF THIS PRESENT TIME**

1 Thessalonians 3:4
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer TRIBULATION; even as it came to pass, and ye know.
**OF THIS PRESENT TIME**

2 Thessalonians 1:4
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and TRIBULATIONs that ye endure: **OF THIS PRESENT TIME**

Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in TRIBULATION, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. **OF THIS PRESENT TIME**


Don't put off till tomorrow what God has called His Church to TODAY!!!

Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-did






;-)

 2007/8/3 8:25
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
Quote:
The verse said that "they they should feed her there"The they refers back to the verse before, which would be the Nations that the "male child" was to rule all nations with a rod of iron.(Rev 12:5-6)
quote]now i believe that the provision of the Lord for this woman is such that it would not allow her to become this harlot.

However, They did become one because they are a harlot even till now, therefore, deem her as one as Revelations does.

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IRONMAN wrote:
Quote:
My Dad is not save.

i was not talking solely of physical progeny but rather Spiritual progeny. John called the church in his epistles "little children" but this was not a reference to him being their physical father but spiritual father.

I have a very godly friend whoes duaghter braught him to the Lord, now she is a hellion.

Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
ah yes Israel is oft called a harlot because of her idolatry and spiritual infidelity...now if God calls Israel a harlot for this, what shall he call the Church which does these same things?quote]The true Church of God(You and I) does not do the same things.

we don't? dear brother if you can say to anyone, or profess before God that you have no idols or other sin which has yet to be purged from you then praise God for the Consummation of the work of Perfecting you in Jesus! i have yet much to repent of, some things i am unaware of as yet. Do you yet have sin you are guilty of which you must repent of or have you repented of all and no longer commit them?


We acknowlege Jesus as the Masaiah, they do not, we are saved, they are not, we repent, they do not, we are not acting as a harlot, they are, even now.

Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
Quote:
Hosea represents God, Gomer represents Israel. Where in the Bible is any body els callde a harlot. Must keep it that way

Rahab was a harlot, and she was a gentile...mmm.

Rahab does not represent anyone or anything. All she is in Scriptur is Boaz' mother
Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
could it be that perhaps from the Gentile church there could some some who will make up the harlot?

NO! The true Church of God is not split in two, one part virgen, other harlot.


Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
Quote:
It's not about influance.

oh but it is bro, how can 2 people walk together if they don't agree?

Not influance, but agreement.

Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
We may not see a beast coming out of the sea...but i would not be surprised if God switched it on us and we saw this literally happen in the physical

[b]Daniel 7:3-6[/b] [color=990000]And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.[/color]
These were nor literal beasts, therefore Rev 13:1 is not.

Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
bro Logic, you are as your name says, logical. like Spock almost

Thanx I try 8-)
Your not the first to notice.

Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
in some areas this restrict the moves of God in one's life as we are closed thinking that God would not do such coz it doesn't make sense.

God is never irrational!

Quote:
IRONMAN wrote:
so it is with scripture. in this discourse i have seen that the harlot on the beast is not just Rome, but includes apostate Israel and other religions also apart from Christianity in it's True Sense. it was the same scripture, same harlot but God showed me more about it through you.

Yes, I believe as the church is grafted into the Olive tree, then with Israel grafted back into his own tree that we are in, the world is grafted in to the same tree as the whore of unrepentant Israel.([b]Not[/b] "unrepentant Israel gets grafted into the harlot that is the world.")
Therefore all that is left after God takes for His own, He punishes with His wrath.

 2007/8/3 19:50Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 NOT WAITING...

sis K-D
greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN

Quote:
If the Lord came today would you be ready? Or are you waiting for the great tribulation to make you ready? What if you died before the great tribulation, would you not then be ready? What about the Saints from the beginning of the Church Age,…..have they missed out on this time of purification????



let it be clear that i'm not waiting for that time to come to be purified. Sis that was not my intention to imply such. However i meant that i would much rather endure the trib and be purged completely if that was what God required of me. as it stands i am being purged daily, i am not waiting. Jesus can't come now because there are yet some thing which must take place as outlined in the Revelation, the gospels and in other places in the N.T. our Lord showed me my death and it is somewhere in the trib, not entirely sure where. sis i think you read things in my post which were not there, where did i say anything which looks like this?

Quote:
What about the Saints from the beginning of the Church Age,…..have they missed out on this time of purification????



i was spelling out my preference, or desire. i am aiming to be as much like Christ as possible and the personal cost is of no consequence. if it means the trib, then it's the trib. to be sure however, God has a way of preserving His people through trials, Daniel in babylon, Elijah at Cherith, James, Peter, Paul etc. to me God's Grace is sufficient at all times, if the Church is here through the trib, God will not pour out his Judgments on her, now the enemy and his minions may retaliate and persecute us, in fact the word does say that he shall make war against us and prevail,but just like God gave Grace to Polycarp who as an old man was told to reject Christ or be cast to the lions and he was torn to pieces, so shall He pour out Grace on those who must endure such. it seems to me the Church suffered much at its inception, how muc more then shall we suffer at the end of the Church Age? or do we not trust God to give us Grace to endure suffering should He determine this is our lot?

Quote:
Don't put off till tomorrow what God has called His Church to TODAY!!!



oh no, God forbid! i strive today for that which i desire most, to be like Christ!

Grace and Peace is ours in Jesus.AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/8/3 21:03Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Logic

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

Quote:
However, They did become one because they are a harlot even till now, therefore, deem her as one as Revelations does.



but bro Logic, it is only for a season that Israel plays the harlot. In the end, all of Israel will be saved, all Israel being all those God has Elected of His own Good Pleasure to Salvation. This Harlot here remains a harlot and is Judged accordingly while Israel is Saved. This makes it seem to me that this harlot is not solely Israel unregenerate, it seems to me that this includes all the other false faiths out there because she sits over a sea of people, nations, tongues and so on.This is to rule over them or have influence over them and so i believe the harlot is the coming religious order which does include apostate Israel, those apostate Christains who are of the great falling away, Muslims, Budhists, taoists etc.


Quote:
I have a very godly friend whoes duaghter braught him to the Lord, now she is a hellion.



praise God he is saved! as for the daughter she is now a hellian, but if she was saved then she remains saved. it is not uncommon for saints to backslide to be sure, it ought not to be because we have Christ, yet in spite of ourselves, God's plan marches on...we backslide sometimes terribly but the mark of one who is saved is that at some point, that one comes Home like the prodigal son. now she is a hellian but wait, she may yet come home running, is she does then we know she is saved (though i believe her to be)

Quote:
Rahab does not represent anyone or anything. All she is in Scriptur is Boaz' mother



ok, you asked where anyone was called a harlot and Rahab was, i didn't know you meant called a harlot as to represent something/one. Now it may not be said explicitly, but Paul implies that we should be wary of becoming harlots ourselves when he told the corinthians (i believe) he wanted to present them as a chaste virgin to Christ. the opposite of Spiritual Virginity is Spiritual Harlotry. so if we ourselves are not careful, we may end up being a harlot like Israel.

but bro to have infuence is to agree isn't it? o have some sort of commonality? The harlot has more influence on men and nations because it is not just Israel but it is also the religions of men come together under Catholic Ecumenicalism so that it spans, nations, tongues and so on.

Quote:
Daniel 7:3-6 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.These were nor literal beasts, therefore Rev 13:1 is not.



but they were literal in that Daniel saw them as beasts. not literal in a physical sense but they had a manifestation in the physical realm. in the same way rev 13:1 is literal, that is John saw this beast literally but it represented some earthly kingdom.

Quote:
God is never irrational!



irrational as you understand it? whose standard of irrationality are you using? Paul says God is irrational according to the understanding of man. men will not understand why God would save men by requiring His Son to die sins which are not His. That makes no sense to me in my natural mind by my natural reasoning or logic...Spiritually though...that's another matter!

Quote:
Yes, I believe as the church is grafted into the Olive tree, then with Israel grafted back into his own tree that we are in, the world is grafted in to the same tree as the whore of unrepentant Israel.(Not "unrepentant Israel gets grafted into the harlot that is the world.")



that was good illustration bro, the apostates being grafted together...never thought of it like that.

Grace and Peace is ours in Jesus.AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/8/3 22:18Profile





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