SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Did Peter remain saved during his denial??

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 Next Page )
PosterThread
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, i know only one way to be saved... faith in the finished work of the cross. what can wash away my sins? nothing but the blood of jesus... abbraham was saved by faith in the cross. only.. jimp

 2007/8/25 4:16Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, i know only one way to be saved... faith in the finished work of the cross. what can wash away my sins? nothing but the blood of jesus... abbraham was saved by faith in the cross. only.. jimp

 2007/8/25 4:16Profile
Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 161
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Peter's denial

This is a big question because the martyrs under the persecutions would'nt deny Jesus, considering rather to be burn at the stake than to experience the eternal hell-fire.

Peter's denial was before he was regenerated i.e. he had not received the Holy Spirit. Therefore he had the opportunity to metanoia.

Peter who most likely died as a martyr (crucified upside down) later had his chans to stand for his saviour - and he did (praise to God).

Judas on the other hand was not predestinated to salvation but did share in the plan of salvation (this a truly mystery).

Magnus :-D


_________________
Magnus Nordlund

 2007/8/25 4:27Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

John 14:28-29 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I. And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe.

Peter and the Apostles were saved as all men were saved before the Cross, by the Mercy of God. There is a difference in Mercy and Grace. Mercy is as someone is doing the works even if they do it wrong, God's Mercy attends to the Law and works. Grace attends to no works or Mercy even though that are together in our Faith Salvation. Mercy is of earthly things forgiven by the the blood of animal sacrifice. Grace by the Blood of Christ the Person, heavenly, with no works. Ephesians 2:7-9 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Peter was saved but not as we are for He had neither Christ or the Holy Spirit in him until Pentecost. Peter did not even know it until Paul came on the scene and preached Christ in you. Peter came to know this by the characterising of Incorruptable Seed of God being the blue print in 1 Peter 1:23 for being born again.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/8/25 5:04Profile
Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 161
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Re:

Phillip! Hmm, Im not sure I follow. The differentation of Mercy and Grace I never heard of before (interesting!!) However, in the Gospel of John 20:21 after Peter's denial; he receives the Holy Spirit. In Acts, it is in the upper room experience, where he receives the Spirit.

I would not say that Peter is saved (rather called, or under the Grace of God, or in Gods foreknowledge at best) before he actually experience the regeneration (wheter or not he really understands it or not). The Twelve Apostles are models for us Christians and we have to pass through the same experiences as them. We have to be called, to repent, be baptized, experience the fellowship with Jesus and to see our Lord be risen in our lives and finally be regenerated (just like Peter and the others).

The thing is: Peter could and did deny Jesus when he was ungenerated but he did'nt and would'nt after he had received the Holy Spirit.

This question is as crucial for us as it was for the early church and the martyrs. To deny Jesus after you have been regenerated is to apostatize. To do it before you are saved it is forgivable as with Peter. Or as the author of Hebrew puts it:

It is impossible for those who once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace (Hebr 6:4-6).

Best wishes

Magnus ;-)


_________________
Magnus Nordlund

 2007/8/25 5:46Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?

Like it is said, Peter was saved like all the rest of us. Even though at Pentecost is when he was regenerated, saved if you will. If Christ is with you you are saved. Christ being with Peter in the flesh was and earthly salvation. The Holy Spirit putting the Spirit of Christ in him was a heavenly salvation. That is how he could deny Christ. Peter was in Christ and did not know it, even though the Holy Spirit sealed the Spirit of Christ in him. It took Paul to bring this revelation to Peter that He might say, "Born again not of corruptable Seed but incorruptable". Gal 2:14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before [them] all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? Paul's only message was "Christ in you the Hope of Glory", and He bid us to live as he lives and follow him in his Gospel.

Mercy earthly, Grace heavenly.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/8/25 12:01Profile









 Re:

Conversion and salvation are two different things.

 2007/8/25 12:21
Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 161
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Re:

Salvation and Conversion are interconnected!

To Phillip: Ok now I understand what you mean ...

Is there an earthly salvation aswell? ;-). I thought the salvation of Jesus Christ held the two realms together (as Romans 8 suggest) i.e. one earthly and heavenly salvation (it should be more accurate according to Scripture would'nt it?).

Ok, what it all boils down to is the question whether a man is truly saved (i.e. bound for the new heaven and the new earth) if he is not regenerated.

My answer is still that: No-one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. You must be born again (or from above)to see the kingdom of God.

Peter saw the Kingdom of God in its initial form: "the risen Christ" and through the workings of the Holy Sprits power and might (as Acts of the Apostles shows).

Before Jesus had risen all the Apostles were ignorant and misunderstood Jesus pretty much at every occasion (except when God spoke through him: you are the Christ).

So I state again: Peters denial could only come from a person who was in the process of being saved (i.e. from a time-perspective; not from God's perspective in which all saved people have always been saved).

However The regenerated Peter (in my mind the heaven-bound Peter) could still misunderstand the deep teaching of Saint Paul such as "Christ in me" and therefore lean towards his judaistic background which Christianity always been eager to do (Law contra evangelion).

But making a mistake or fail to understand the depths of the new covenant is not the same as denying Jesus Christ which the regenerated Peter never did (only the ungenerated one).

Sincerely Magnus :-D


_________________
Magnus Nordlund

 2007/8/25 13:02Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

"
""But making a mistake or fail to understand the depths of the new covenant is not the same as denying Jesus Christ which the regenerated Peter never did (only the ungenerated one)."" But still converted, waiting for regeneration at Pentecost, knowing it through Paul's Gospel.


By Job, I think he's got it. Amen.

In Christ, converted, regenerated, headed for the Father's Heavenly House, because of the "Christ in me the Hope of Glory".

Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/8/25 17:49Profile
Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 161
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Re:

Quote: "But still converted, waiting for regeneration at Pentecost, knowing it through Paul's Gospel".

Yes Peter was regenerated at the Pentecost and got to know the power of the Holy Spirit in his preaching and through his acts (see Acts chap 2ff) The deeper meanings and implications of being born anew he might have learned from Paul (however we can not be too sure though; Peter seems to have known a lot of the workings of the Holys Spirit as witnessed in Acts).

The episode of Peter in Galatians however is about the judaistic legalistic inconsequences of Peter which Paul rightly is rebuking him for: namely "hypocrisy". This is clearly not a question concerning Peters regeneration or understanding of it rather it indicates Peters double standard conduct in putting up the wall of Jew contra gentile which according to Paul is against the truth of the gospel (which Peter knew but had acted out of fear= typical Peter!!!). Again, this is the regenerated Peter who sins (as christians often do, and must be rebuked for). But to deny Christ in a regenerated status is to crucify Christ anew (and unpardonable apostasy) which Peter never did.

Lastly: In Gal. 2:15ff most scholars agrees that Paul now begins to adress the Galatians and the issue that troubles Paul. In this he is bringing out the headlines of Christian teaching which were in accordance with the views of the other apostles (Peter included).

Magnus :-x


_________________
Magnus Nordlund

 2007/8/25 19:19Profile





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy