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Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

Corey, I think you totally misunderstand what the millennial kingdom is. I can tell by the way you equate it with antichrist and statements like: "will there be rape and killing in Christ's kingdom?" You obviously aren't understanding what we are talking about.

Christ is returning to EARTH in great power and glory. This is one of the most foundational doctrines of Scripture. Our BODIES will be resurrected. Why? So we can all go back to heaven? Why would Christ come, resurrect our bodies, and then leave if we die and go to heaven anyway? Let's just stay there and let the earth destroy itself.

You've forgotten that God made the earth and called it good. You call it bad. This is an old gnostic heresy: Spirit good, flesh bad idea. God has promised to restore the earth. If He does not He makes Himself a liar and breaks His promise. This will never ever happen.

Christ comes in glory with all heaven with Him, destroys the wicked out of the land and rules in Jerusalem, just as the Bible says. There will be no more sin, nor more rebellion, no more death, as in the Garden of Eden. There is once more that Satan will be loosed for one finally attack on UNDEFENDED Jersualem... undefended because of the perfect conditions of the Kingdom at that time.

There is not one verse that says we go to heaven and are there for all eternity. It's not the Christian hope. The blessed hope is Christ's return, our resurrection and the restoration of all things. This is fundamental Christianity. Don't deceive yourself with doctrines that might SOUND good and spiritual, but in fact they are gnostic and not Biblical. You need to meditate on some of these verses brother:

Daniel 2:35,44-45
Micah 4:2
Zechariah 14:9
Matthew 5:5
Matthew 25:31-34
Luke 1:32-33
Luke 11:2
Luke 19:11
Acts 1:6-7
Acts 3:20-21
Philippians 2:9-11
Colossians 1:20
Revelation 5:10
Revelation 11:15
Revelation 19:15
Revelation 20:7-8
Revelation 21:24


_________________
Eli Brayley

 2007/7/13 15:29Profile









 Re:

Greg, thanks for all the quotations. But, again, the only literal physical kingdom they speak of is antichrist's.

I didn't read anything pertaining to a millennial reign of Christ on Earth.

Maybe I missed something?

 2007/7/13 15:34









 Re:

Brother Corey, I'm sorry if I offended you with my post. It's just that when we use "our own words", that's where the contentions start, I think.

I prefer to use Scripture to speak for me, because I feel the need for showing where my ideas come from through The Word. My own words don't weigh to a hill of beans in any talk about Him.

Maybe if we just compared Scripture with Scripture from here on out, and try hard to not just "say" what is going to happen, but just show where in the Bible our thoughts come from, then maybe we could look over each other's understandings better.

Love you brother and please be patient with us.
We're all just doing our best to straighten out the picture on the wall together.

With His Love too.
Annie

 2007/7/13 15:36
Lkid
Member



Joined: 2007/7/6
Posts: 109


 Re:

would any post trib like to suggest why scripture states that we won't know the day or the hour of His coming and that He will come when we aren't expecting Him? Can we not count days throughout the tribulation period? I haven't heard the argument for that.
I am not trying to be contention either, but it seems to me this is the process for people looking into the end times:
Not sure so look at the Bible (good idea);
Still not sure as there is some ambiguity (i'm sure some will say "what ambiguity?") so they check out some resources and get some opinions and when they find a strong argument they side with it and become stubborn towards another view (Pride?)
I am open to hearing either stand point but not in argumentative fashion. Believe what you hear from the Spirit on this and be ready for Christ!

 2007/7/13 16:06Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Christ is returning to EARTH in great power and glory. This is one of the most foundational doctrines of Scripture. Our BODIES will be resurrected. Why? So we can all go back to heaven? Why would Christ come, resurrect our bodies, and then leave if we die and go to heaven anyway? Let's just stay there and let the earth destroy itself.



"But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:" (LUK 20:35)

"For [b]in the resurrection they[/b] neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but [b]are as the angels of God in heaven[/b]." (MAT 22:30)

"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another." (I COR 15:40)

"So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body... As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.... And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that [b]flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God[/b]; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." (I COR 15:40-52)

Quote:
You've forgotten that God made the earth and called it good. You call it bad. This is an old gnostic heresy: Spirit good, flesh bad idea. God has promised to restore the earth. If He does not He makes Himself a liar and breaks His promise. This will never ever happen.



"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." (GEN 1:31)

Everything [i]was[/i] good, man included.

"And God looked upon [b]the earth[/b], and, behold, it [b]was corrupt[/b]; for [b]all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth[/b]. And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth." (GEN 6:12-13)

God now calls it corrupt.

Who's the "heretic" now?

Quote:
Christ comes in glory with all heaven with Him, destroys the wicked out of the land and rules in Jerusalem, just as the Bible says. There will be no more sin, nor more rebellion, no more death, as in the Garden of Eden. There is once more that Satan will be loosed for one finally attack on UNDEFENDED Jersualem... undefended because of the perfect conditions of the Kingdom at that time.



"But Solomon built him an house. Howbeit [b]the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands[/b]; as saith the prophet, Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest?" (ACT 7:47-49)

"Jesus answered, [b]My kingdom is not of this world[/b]: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence." (JOH 18:36)

edit: "And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, [b]The kingdom of God cometh not with observation[/b]:" (LUK 17:20)

Quote:
There is not one verse that says we go to heaven and are there for all eternity. It's not the Christian hope. The blessed hope is Christ's return, our resurrection and the restoration of all things. This is fundamental Christianity. Don't deceive yourself with doctrines that might SOUND good and spiritual, but in fact they are gnostic and not Biblical.



[b]"And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." (MAR 13:27)[/b]

Eli, it's called the "Kingdom of Heaven". Come on! Why are you defending this Earthly/Heavenly Kingdom, 1984, DoubleSpeak?

"But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal..." (MAT 6:20)

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (MAT 7:21)

Notice "enter kingdom of heaven" and "my Father which is in heaven". We are going where the Father is, Eli.

"But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." (MAT 10:33)

"And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force." (MAT 11:12)

"And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads... And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven." (REV 12:3-8)

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in." (MAT 23:13)

"And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." (MAT 24:31)

[b]"Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away." (MAT 24:35)[/b]

"Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, [b]your reward is great in heaven[/b]: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets." (LUK 6:22-23)

"Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me." (LUK 18:22)

"And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man." (JOH 1:51)

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven... That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life." (JOH 3:13-15)

"And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began." (ACT 3:20-21)

 2007/7/13 16:37









 Re:

Hi Lkid, Staying with Bible only is good. Not saying we all can't add something of ourselves neither, of course.

Your question is answered in these verses.

He only comes as a thief, when not expected, upon those who are not "watching and praying" and anticipating His Coming. "Watching" conveys that we "watch" all the signs that He and His Apostles gave in Matt 24, Mk 13, Lk 21, etc. so that we can know by these signs "when" He is due and have enough oil in our lamps, to get through the coming darkness that precedes His Coming.
So in other words ... Those who are watching for His coming "will" know when He's coming.

Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Mat 24:46 [b]Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing[/b].
Mat 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Mat 25:13 [b]Watch[/b] therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Mar 13:33 Take ye heed, [b]watch and pray[/b]: for ye know not when the time is.
Mar 13:34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
Mar 13:35 [b]Watch[/b] ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
Mar 13:36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
Mar 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, [b]Watch[/b].

Luk 12:35 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
Luk 12:36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
Luk 12:37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find [b]watching[/b]: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
Luk 12:38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.
Luk 12:39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.
Luk 12:40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.

1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 [b][i]But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.[/i][/b]
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us [b]watch[/b] and be sober.

1Pe 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.

Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. [b]If therefore thou shalt 'not' watch[/b], I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

 2007/7/13 16:49
Lkid
Member



Joined: 2007/7/6
Posts: 109


 Re:

What about the day or the hour?

 2007/7/13 16:54Profile









 Re:

Quote:
What about the day or the hour?



"But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (MAR 13:32)

I'd advise not worrying about "when" it will happen - since Jesus Himself didn't know.

Focus on that fact that "it will" happen, and be ever vigilent that when He comes, He finds you behaving yourself.

But don't hope for "the day of the Lord" it like some here do...

"Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light." (AMO 5:18)

 2007/7/13 17:31
Lkid
Member



Joined: 2007/7/6
Posts: 109


 Re:

that was not my question. I was wondering if anyone could reconcile the post trib postulation with the fact that we would know days (maybe not hours though) and the fact Jesus said that we won't know the day or the hour

 2007/7/13 17:48Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
that was not my question. I was wondering if anyone could reconcile the post trib postulation with the fact that we would know days (maybe not hours though) and the fact Jesus said that we won't know the day or the hour



Ah, this is only a problem if you believe in a 7 year period of tribulation. The good news however is that the 7 year period is a misunderstanding of Daniel 9.

Jesus is coming back. When He returns, He will gather the elect and punish the wicked mankind. This is when the great white throne judgment will occur and the new heavens and the new earth.

No seven year--left behind--moments.

 2007/7/13 18:32Profile





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