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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Sinners must DO something TO BE SAVED!

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 Re:

Quote:
Jesus preached Himself. The Apostles preached Christ.

Yes, Peter told the men to repent, but that was in response to their question, "Men and Bretheren, What Shall We Do?"

Peter preached Christ, and the Preaching of THAT WORD caused faith to arise in the hearers hearts (Faith comes by hearing the Word of God) and they asked... What Shall We Do?



AMEN!!! So Simple!

 2007/6/29 11:07
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

The problem by making repentance the work by which a man receives justification, is that it leads to a man thinking he is justified by the works he has done rather than by God's grace alone. Paul had some rather harsh words for those who sought to be justified by the works of the law.

In Galatians, Paul is addressing this very issue. There were some who were boasting of their circumcision and law keeping as being the grounds by which they were accepted by God. I see this as very much similar to what you are preaching Jesse, so in the spirit of Paul allow me to tell you this.

Galatians 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, [b]Christ shall profit you nothing.[/b]
Galatians 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

In other words, if you replace God's grace with any kind of work of man, then Christ and His work is of no value to you at all, why?

Galatains 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, [b]whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.[/b]

A man that seeks to approach God in his own supposed righteousness has thrown grace aside, and for all intents and purposes trampled the blood of Christ under foot, and counted it vain!

This is where we will see very differing consequences due to our Theology, and soteriology. Since I am of a more Reformed view, I believe that God has elected people to salvation, therefore those whom He gives life to by His Spirit will perservere unto the end, and since the faith the man has was given to him when he was regenerated, he cannot even boast of his faith or repentance as it was a gift, and not a work.

Also because the Bible clearly shows that Christ's work was complete, and did redeem those for whom He died, there is great confidence in the work of the Spirit of God in keeping that soul.

Again Jesse, I feel sorry for those who have to listen to you preach, because you have nothing to offer them. You cannot offer Christ to them, because you do not view His work as sufficient to pay for their sins(all of them), you cannot tell them to cease from their works because you believe that a man must work, and work, and work to earn favour with God. Quite honestly according to your Theology, a man can stop sinning any time he wants, so why even preach a Saviour? Man can be his own saviour by his ability to not sin right?

Unfortunately, you place a yoke upon people that need not be there. Please stop regurgitating Finney, and just dig into the Scriptures. Remember how you came to Christ, what work did you do to make Him choose you? Who made you to differ? Or was it solely His sovereign free choice of you that is the grounds for any and all interest in Christ?


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patrick heaviside

 2007/6/29 11:25Profile
PaulWest
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Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Remember how you came to Christ, what work did you do to make Him choose you?



Another homerun, Roaringlamb! How quickly we tend to forget the simplicity of what we know to be true because it was first wrought in us. How blessed I am to think back to the times when I was theologically innocent and ignorant, before I knew the differences between Calvinism and Arminianism, or ever even heard of Finney.

We must preach what we know, not what we've learned, third-party. And we know what we preach to be true, because it is our living testimony, the vital reality of God entering our lives on a personal level.

Brother Paul


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Paul Frederick West

 2007/6/29 11:48Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
How quickly we tend to forget the simplicity of what we know



I would only add, or edit this to say [i]how quickly we forget the simplicity of Who we know.[/i]

Paul exhorted the Colossians not to be moved from the simplicity of Christ, what great words.

If we would be honest with ourselves and with God, we would reflect back to a point where suddenly it all made sense. Our sin against God became clear, our need of Christ was made evident, and our sorrow for wounding such Innocence was felt. Of course this did not come from our natural reasoning, and here is where it hurts the flesh, but that was all God given.

The light that went on was nothing more than the regeneration of our heart causing a complete paradigm shift in view of Christ.

It is humbling, yet uplifting at the same time. It provides a great boldness to approach the throne of God knowing that Another has paved the way, and maintains the way on our behalf.

Why any would want to take away from this great assurance is beyond me, yet I am but a man who has great sin, but better yet has a Great Saviour and Mediator!!


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patrick heaviside

 2007/6/29 12:02Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
I would only add, or edit this to say how quickly we forget the simplicity of Who we know.



Amen. What we know about [i]Him[/i] who has come to dwell in us. This what I meant, brother. Such simplicity...babes can understand. I suppose as with everything else in life, intellect accompanies growth, and abundance of knowledge often brings an opaque sheen to that which was once innocently transparent.

Brother Paul :-)


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2007/6/29 15:59Profile









 Re:

Quote:
WHAT MUST SINNERS DO TO BE SAVED?

“What good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?” (Matt 19:16, Mark 10:17, (Luke 3:10, Luke 3:12, Luke 3:14, Luke 10:25, Luke 18:18, John 6:28-29, Acts 2:37, Acts 16:30)

When Jesus was asked, “what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?” (Matt 19:16, Mark 10:17, Luke 10:25, Luke 18:18) Did Jesus respond by saying, “Nothing! You cannot do anything good to be saved!” No! In the multiple of times that Jesus was asked this eternally important question that was never His answer. Jesus responded with, “thou shalt not… thou shalt not… thou shalt not…” (Matt 19:18-19, Mark 10:19, Luke 10:26, Luke 18:20) “Do this and ye shall live.” (Luke 10:28) Jesus did not say, “do nothing” but rather said “do this”!

And this is the crux or the core of the problem that God our Sovereign has with fallen mankind! They have rejected His Sovereign decrees of “thou shalt not”! Sinners do not want the Sovereign Lord to reign over them (Luke 19:14, Luke 19:27), they reject the eternal counsel of God for their own salvation! (Luke 7:30, Luke 13:34) And this problem must be remedied before pardon can be extended.

“Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.” Isaiah 55:7

But the answer of our perfect Lord, as to what a sinner “must do” in order to be saved, is the essence of true repentance! Repentance is to turn away from sin, to cease from sinning, to no longer do what God has declared “thou shalt not” do. Repentance is to “Forsake” and to “return”. That is repentance, and that is what Jesus told a sinner he “must do” if he wanted to live. Because unless a man repents, the blood of Jesus Christ cannot cover him! (Heb 10:26-31) If “thou shalt not” does not teach the essence of true repentance then it doesn’t teach anything at all!

Jesus was asked, “What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?” What did He say? “Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work of God that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” (John 6:28-29) Without men doing this work, this work of believing upon the Son that God sent, men cannot be saved! (John 3:18) No man can be justified without the work of repenting and believing. (James 2:21-25) These works do not merit or earn salvation, so we are not saved “by them”, since nobody is saved by works (1Tim 1:9, Titus 3:5), but these works are necessary and are required for salvation, so that we are not saved “without them”. Nobody can be saved who does not keep God’s commandments, “and this is his commandment, that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.” (1John 3:23)

When John the Baptist preached hell-fire, men cried out, “what shall we do” (Luke 3:10, Luke 3:12, Luke 3:14) he told them to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance! He did not say, “You must not do anything!” But rather John the Baptist preached, “Every tree therefore that does not bring forth good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire!” (Luke 3:9) He told sinners exactly what they need to do! (Luke 3:9-14)

When Peter was asked, “what shall we do?” (Acts 2:37) Peter did not say “Make sure that you do nothing!” Rather, Peter said, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.” (Acts 2:38) And he continued to exhort them to, “Save yourselves from this perverse generation!” (Acts 2:40) This is a far cry from a passive “easy-believism”, or a “do-nothing-to-get-saved” type message.

When Paul was asked, “what must I do to be saved” (Acts 16:30) did Paul respond with, “You cannot do anything to be saved! It’s heresy to assume you must do something to be saved. Make sure that you do nothing!” That is not what the inspired Apostle said. Paul said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou will be saved.” (Acts 16:31) He did not say believe on the Savior Jesus Christ, but the Lord Jesus Christ!

God tells us that not everyone who declares Jesus as Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but those who actually do the will of the Sovereign! (Matthew 7:21-22, Luke 6:46) Christ’s family consists of those who “hear the Word of God, and do it.” (Luke 8:21) God requires that we be “hearers of the word” and also “a doer” of it! (James 1:23) It is only “he that does the will of God” that “abides forever” (1John 2:17) “If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that everyone that does righteousness is born of him” (1John 2:29) And again we are warned to “let no” preacher or theologian “deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.” (1John 3:7)

Why was John the Baptist, Jesus Christ, the Apostle Peter, and the Apostle Paul so successful in winning souls? Because they told sinners what they needed to do in order to be saved. And why were men like George Fox, John Wesley, William Booth, Charles Finney, and other giants of the faith such amazing soul winners? Because they knew the true gospel and the true God! And they told sinners what they needed to do in order to be saved! And why were so many other Christians and “theologians” so pathetic when it came to soul winning? Why did sinners not do anything under their sermons? Because their sermons told them to do nothing! If you tell sinners to do nothing, don’t be surprised if they do nothing!

 2007/6/29 23:40









 Re:

Quote:
If you tell sinners to do nothing, don’t be surprised if they do nothing!



I don't see anybody on here saying that a man has to do nothing in order to receive Christ.

But I will tell you that there are many today who are telling people to do a lot of things (come to an altar, etc..) and these individuals are on not getting saved. Why? Because just like the rich young ruler, they are still trusting in their OWN Righteousness. They are still ignorant of the Righteousness that comes from God. (Romans 10:3)

When an individual (like the rich young ruler) asks, What good thing must I do to be saved? That individual is still looking inwardly for some bit of righteousness that he/she can produce and bring to God.

Saving righteousness is not something I can produce, it is not something I can go get or work up. Saving righteousness is found in a man that has already come to us. Look at Hebrews 10...

1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

5For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

6But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

7Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.



Him, He, Jesus, Christ, The Son of God, The Lamb of God, and The Seed of Abraham, Yeshua, and The Son of David, The True Israel, The Suffering Servant, and The Cleft of the Rock, Our Refuge, And THE WORD MADE FLESH.

He is the saving righteousness that comes from God, He is nigh thee and if a man believes on Him, that man shall be saved.


So why did Jesus give the rich young ruler the law. Why did Jesus tell him thou shalt not...etc.

Or let me ask it another way. Why didn't Jesus tell the rich young ruler to:

Repent and believe the Gospel!

Because at that point the man did not see anything he needed to repent of! And as for the Gospel, he would have looked at Jesus cross-eyed, because the Gospel is for those who have despaired of their own self-righteousness.

Jesus was standing right in front of that man, and the rich young ruler could not even see Him.

He did not see The Lamb of God that takes away the Sin of the World. All he saw was a good master. He was blind. God was standing if front of Him and all the man could ask was...What shall I DO that I may inherit eternal life?

He was ignorant of God's Righteousness. God's Righteousness was standing right in front of him, and he could not even see it. Why? Because the god of this world had blinded his eyes and all he could do was look to himself for righteousness. (The definition of dead religion)

Jesus gave him the law, and the man still thought he was just. So Jesus went right to the heart of the law...

Quote:
21Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.



Thou shalt Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind, soul and strength...and Love thy neighbor as thyself.

And because the man was still looking inward, all he could do was walk away in despair.

Jesus was only a "good master" to him, so at that point Jesus had nothing else to offer him.

 2007/6/30 12:15
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
He was ignorant of God's Righteousness. God's Righteousness was standing right in front of him, and he could not even see it. Why? Because the god of this world had blinded his eyes and all he could do was look to himself for righteousness. (The definition of dead religion)



Brother,

I don't think the ruler was ignorant; I think he was still holding on to the "one thing" that hindered the rendering of the totality of himself to God. Jesus put His finger on the "one thing" and I dare to say that none of us here on SermonIndex are ignorant of what that "one thing" may be in our own walks with God.

It was not ignorance that led him sorrowfully away; I contend it was the refusal to run the knife through the throat of his darling Isaac on Mount Moriah.

Have you heard "One Thing You Lack" by Art Katz? It speaks painful voulmes on this very subject.

Brother Paul


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2007/6/30 12:37Profile









 Re: "one thing"

Quote:
I don't think the ruler was ignorant; I think he was still holding on to the "one thing" that hindered the rendering of the totality of himself to God. Jesus put His finger on the "one thing" and I dare to say that none of us here on SermonIndex are ignorant of what that "one thing" may be in our own walks with God.



I have heard a few messages that speak of that passage like that. I remember a message years ago from Pastor Carter Conlon, where he said the same thing..."This one thing you lack".

With all respect...Honestly, I whole heartedly disagree with that interpretation. Dare I say I vehemently disagree with that interpretation.

In fact, that kind of interpretation is no different that was Jesse is saying.

There is only "One Thing I Lack" and that is... Perfect-Saving Righteousness.

Jesus was not trying to save that man at that point. That man was not ready.

That man was trusting in his riches, just like every unsaved man trusts in something other than Christ. (The Apostle Paul trusted in his Jewish Heritage and his keeping of the law)

It is impossible for any man, by his own strength, to forsake the thing in which he trusts.

But what is impossible with men is possible with God. That is the Gospel.

He was ignorant of God's Righteousness, and he was trying to establish his own righteousness.


Yes we are to take up our cross and follow Him. Yes we are bought with a price, our lives are not our own. But...

I will have no ability to "take up my cross" until I first understand "His Cross"

It was FOR JOY, that the man sold all that he had to buy the field...

Quote:
44Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.



He found something greater, and therefore he was able to forsake all that he trusted in, and go buy the field.

The rich young ruler could not see that Jesus was greater than his own righteousness.

The issue was not the man's riches. We are not told how rich he was, but I'll bet by today's standards many of us (Americans) are as rich as or richer than that man was.

The issue was that of righteousness.


Look at the verses before that passage. Jesus was talking about new beginnings. (Divorce, come to Him as a child)

Divorce - a man cannot just put away his wife and marry another...Jesus called that adultery. Paul said that man is bound to his wife by the law. The only way a man can be married to another lawfully is if the wife were to die.

Israel, (of who the rich young ruler was apart) was married to the law. Most (like the rich young ruler) were entrenched in "law righteousness" because they were ignorant of God's Righteousness.

Jesus was teaching them something. The could not just "add Christ" to their lives. That would be adultery. They had to die to ever achieving their own righteousness ...which is of the law.

They had to come to Him like little children. Brand new. Trusting in Him alone.

How do we become dead to the law so that we can become married to Christ. Well, Paul says it is by the body of Christ.

Quote:
4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.



Jesus kept giving the law to the people because he wanted show them that they lacked a righteousness that would allow them to stand before a Holy God.

The issue was not riches, but righteousness.

 2007/6/30 13:47
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
It is impossible for any man, by his own strength, to forsake the thing in which he trusts.



And yet this is just the thing God calls us to do. Over and over and over again in the Word. "How hard it is for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of heaven." Why? Is it because God won't give them the grace to "understand" the righteousness of Christ? The Bible speaks of gold as a snare, something that can trap a man. The same with lust and greed.

Whose ultimate responsibility is it, then, to forsake and to turn away from these worldy things? Whose job is it to [i]lay up[/i] our treasure in heaven? God's too? Brother, to follow your interpetation, the man walked away because God didn't give him the strength to forsake his riches. You seem to be saying that a mere "understanding" of the doctrine of Christ's righteousness is all a man needs, yet the Bible seems to contradict this everywhere. You can know all the truths and still be as dead as a doornail. And not only that, you can even [i]agree[/i] with them!

Quote:
Jesus was not trying to save that man at that point. That man was not ready.



How do you know this? Why then did Jesus extend the invitation to follow Him and be a disciple?

Brother, there are multitudes who have "an understanding" of Jesus' righteousness but who have not forsaken all and thus cannot enter in. Now, when I say "all" I do not mean mere physical objects; I'm speaking of the hidden, spiritual things, the invisible powers, unmortified lusts of the flesh that still surge and hold empire over us and prevent us from giving God the utter and total abandonment of our beings. This is what, I believe, Jesus flushed to the surface when he said, "One thing you lack" to the ruler.

Remember, the ruler professed he was ready to follow Christ. There are multitudes and multitudes of believers and preachers and theologians that are in reserved bondage despite their professions. They kneel before Jesus like the rich ruler, and, unlike the rich ruler as you say, actually [i]understand[/i] that their righteouness is in Christ! Yet they are outside the Kingdom of Heaven, according to Scripture. Is it God's fault for not giving them the strength to forsake all? You say the rich young ruler was not ready, yet Matthew (Levi) left his tax booth immediately and followed Jesus at the same call: "Follow me"

Where do you differentiate between the rich young ruler and Levi?

Brother Paul


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Paul Frederick West

 2007/6/30 14:12Profile





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