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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Dr. John Piper

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Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Thanks intrcssr83,

I forwarded that onto a couple of friends who enjoy John Piper.

That was the best chuckle I've had online since the Star Wars Kid.
:-P

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2007/6/27 10:38Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

In regards to unsaved people liking John Piper, I believe that many unsaved people listened to our lord as well, and never came to Him. He also was very popular as we read many times how "all Judea went out to meet Him", or that crowds gathered to hear Him.
Just some points to remember ;-)


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patrick heaviside

 2007/6/27 11:02Profile









 Brian Caldwell

Quote:
Can you folks help me understand If John Piper is a sound teacher,I started listening to him recently teach through Romans on God's Sovereignty and found it to be great food for my spirit,



Brian,
in love I ask this: why do you seek the opinion of man, who sees thru a glass darkly, rather the Holy Spirit Who lives in you?

You said you "found it food for your spirit", let it be that then, why open the door for those who will naysay what God spoke to you thru this man, this teacher. Ask a man about a another of God, and you will get 30 different responses, some of them ugly, etc......and then you will begin to doubt, whether it was "food for your spirit", and thats where you will be stumbled, that is where you will see how hopelessly divided the Church has become.

Rest in Christ, and the Holy Spirit will give you discernment. You rely on man for that, and you will be in trouble.

 2007/6/27 11:15
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re: Dr. John Piper

Brian,

In reading the posts in answer to your question, one sees variation in the responses. So now the question arises: who do I believe? Who has credibility on this issue whose advice I can trust? On a forum of this nature it can be difficult to discern this at times unless you have been here a long time. If you do not mind, I would like to give a few suggestions of my own which will be basic and one that has served me well in my 60 years of sojourn on this planet.

All writers will have their critics.

All writers will refer to an indisputable source to support their ideas.

To study these writers require a lot of time.

To feed exclusively on extraneous writers will rob one of time which could well be spent in going to the original source for your info. Like eating warmed over left-overs continually: with each heating there is a loss of nutrients. So it is with getting so involved with contemporary writers.

All writings must reflect the will of God as recorded in the Bible in every sense the topic discussed.

God uses contemporary writers to edify his people.

Since we may not know the motive for this particular work, study the word itself! Get it straight from God Himself through the Word. The Word is brief, to the point and wastes no words, unlike contemporary writers. Saves lots of valuable time.

I enjoy reading the Minor Prophets. One learns that human nature has not changed throughout time and God is still a God of love as well as a God of wrath – read Revelation. God has not changed and we do well to respond accordingly. Much of todays lit is geared to denying the wrath aspect of God, that He is just a God of Love. Actually, if God is not a God of wrath, the concept of love would be meaningless.

Now my opinion about Christian hedonism: I cringe when a Christian will resort to christianizing an ungodly concept. It has the effect of eroding an ungodly concept to one which is questioned, then eventually accepted as the norm. Deceptive, don’t you think?

About studying the book of Romans: why do you not just reread it, read it again, and again taking notes, note the most frequently used terms, compare them with each other and in the context given...Hey, you know what? if you do this you just might soon know more then John Piper! Really! no kidding!

Hope this helps….

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2007/6/27 12:09Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re: The section...

I found the passage-in-question. (the one that was quoted on a certain Calvinist site, claiming erroneous doctrine on the part of John Piper.) It is in the section called "what we believe about the five points" on DesiringGod.org.

Quote:
God justifies us on the first genuine act of saving faith, but in doing so he has a view to all subsequent acts of faith contained, as it were, like a seed in that first act.

What we are trying to do here is own up to the teaching of Romans 5:l, for example, that teaches that we are already justified before God. God does not wait to the end of our lives in order to declare us righteous. In fact, we would not be able to have the assurance and freedom in order to live out the radical demands of Christ unless we could be confident that because of our faith we already stand righteous before him.

Nevertheless, we must also own up to the fact that our final salvation is made contingent upon the subsequent obedience which comes from faith. The way these two truths fit together is that we are justified through our first act of faith because God sees in it (like he can see the tree in an acorn) the embryo of a life of faith. This is why those who do not lead a life of faith with its inevitable fruit of obedience simply bear witness to the fact that their first act of faith was not genuine.



Personally, I do not think Piper was saying "God elected them because of their subsequent acts of faith", but rather, "The condition of final salvation is persevearance, but they were able to do that because they were elected and regenerated in the first place." Am I wrong?

Much love, friends of constant fellowship,

 2007/6/27 13:04Profile
intrcssr83
Member



Joined: 2005/10/28
Posts: 246
Logan City, Queensland, Australia

 Re:

Quote:
Now my opinion about Christian hedonism: I cringe when a Christian will resort to christianizing an ungodly concept. It has the effect of eroding an ungodly concept to one which is questioned, then eventually accepted as the norm. Deceptive, don’t you think?



How about we actually examine the teaching itself rather than merely "judging a book by it's cover" (or in this case, title).

Here's one of his seminar presentations where he gives a brief, yet thorough explanation of what Christian Hedonism actually is.

[url=http://www.desiringgod.org/download.php?file=/media/audio/conferences/regional2005/session1_32k.mp3]When I Don't Desire God: How to Fight for Joy[/url]

I am not coming with a “health, wealth and prosperity” gospel, or a “health, wealth and prosperity” mission. I am not bringing the message that Christ will make you healthy, Christ will make you wealthy, Christ will make you prosperous, in this life so that you can have joy. That’s not my message. I am bringing you a message that Christ will give himself so that you don’t need health, wealth and prosperity in order to be happy, but you can have so much invincible joy in the durable Christ that you can give up health, wealth and prosperity in the sacrifices of love if God so calls.

I have to admit that or me, his explanation of God's glory was VERY convicting while at the same time being a refreshment in light of all the man-centred properity preaching that is filling our churches.

Also bear in mind that a lot of his teaching is - by his own free admission and intent - based on the theology of Jonathan Edwards.


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Benjamin Valentine

 2007/6/28 8:19Profile









 Re:

I watched a video of Piper where he said that "the greatest news I have ever heard is that the sins I will commit next monday are already forgiven"!!

Piper even said that he sins every day but God doesn't see it, God see's Christ instead!!

Piper seems to be very popular today, but does anyone else see the major problems with unsound views, statements, and doctrines as these?

Am I the only one who is deeply concerned about Pipers increasing popularity? Is it because of the state of the Church today that a preacher who says such things can become so influential?

 2007/6/28 8:30
DezCall
Member



Joined: 2004/7/9
Posts: 315
The Netherlands

 Re:

Quote:
"the greatest news I have ever heard is that the sins I will commit next monday are already forgiven"!!



...what's wrong with this view?

Paul

p.s. it's important to read and hear his statements in its context, just as we need to read our Bibles in its context.


_________________
Paul

 2007/6/28 11:55Profile
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: Piper

Just because someone is well liked or well loved in the public eye does not necessarily mean they are wrong--

take Charles Spurgeon for example

When he died the funeral procession was 2 miles long,consisting of men and women of all social classes and economic conditions; there were over one hundred thousand people participating in the memorial service and all of London ceased it's activities. Spurgeon was well loved!

On another point, I have a hard time believing that anyone goes through any day without sinning. Not that we use that as an excuse to plan on sinning, but we are not perfect and we do fall. As much as we'd like to think we are so righteous and good- we are not.

Until we see ourselves for what we are- wretched and undeserving, we will never experience revival- personal or corporate. We will not understand the mercy and compassion of the Lord and we will forever be demanding that others meet a standard that we ourselves cannot meet.

Though we may have given up and overcome major outward, obvious sins- I know for myself that I am still wretched when I catch myself having wrong motives about anything, when I talk to my husband or children in a disrespting tone, when I get sinfully angry (maybe someone cut me off in the car) even if it is for 1 minute or 30 seconds-- it is still sin. When I think wrong thoughts about someone. When I catch myself thinking i am better than someone else. These are all sins.

John Piper is not perfect and i know I am not. Just when I think I have 'arrived' at some new level of holiness, the Lord rips off my prideful rose-colored glasses and exposes how wretched I still am. I am soooooo thankful for His mercy and patience as He continues to change me and grow me day by day. I know John Piper is grateful for that same mercy and grace. He has a passionate heart for the Lord and for his glory- there is no doubt about that.

Has anyone ever heard him speak about 'not wasting your life' [url=http://www.desiringgod.org/ResourceLibrary/MediaPlayer/1858/Audio/]Don't Waste Your Life[/url]. It has changed many people's lives. He encourages believers not to settle for the amercian dream, not to settle for comfortable, or comfortable retirement.

You can also see his 1-3 minute [url=http://www.desiringgod.org/DWYL/Podcast/]Don't Waste Your Life Podcasts[/url]

This saddens me hear people criticizing a man who's whole heart is sold out to the Lord and His glory. He is constantly encouraging people to make Jesus their treasure above all things and it is very obvious in his own life that Jesus is His treasure and His all in all.

In Christ, Chanin


_________________
Chanin

 2007/6/28 12:29Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Just in case anyone was interested, all of Piper's books will be on sale for $5 until the end of June 28.
I say go for "The Justification of God", or "The Preaching Of The Cross".
Here is the store address

[url=www.desiringgod.org/store]Desiring God[/url]


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/6/28 12:41Profile





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