Poster | Thread |
| Re: | | GrannieANnie Quote:
Didn't think it had anything to do with the pizza you had, no matter what kind it was
Some psychologist say that certain foods we eat can cause wild and profound dreams.
I guess i assumed that you knew what that meant. Sorry.
I like Pizza hut too, Papa johns is good speaking of pizza, I think that is what I am going to have.
Bye
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| 2007/7/27 17:44 | | pastorfrin Member
Joined: 2006/1/19 Posts: 1406
| Re: | | Hi MM,
I believe the Lord always prepares those who are His for what is ahead. John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
I see in your dream the church swallowed up in the sea of humanity, tossed to and fro, and caught up with the cares of this world. This comes to a point or place of decision. When this happens there is a time of conviction and so people fight and argue and blame one another, in many ways like what is happening today. I see a righteous indignation where the truly called step forth at this time and proclaim the truth of Jesus Christ with no regard for their lives.
For what its worth, I do not claim to be an interpreter, just sharing what came to me upon reading your post.
In His Love pastorfrin
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| 2007/7/27 22:06 | Profile |
| Re: | | Quote:
pastorfrin wrote: Hi MM,
For what its worth, I do not claim to be an interpreter, just sharing what came to me upon reading your post.
In His Love pastorfrin
I thank you for that. you are the first person that has ever giving me some interpretation. I have only shared this with three or four people a few years ago.I am not sure what it means for me, if it even means anything. I don't know why I would get this kind of dream, I am not even a preacher. That was back when I was charismatic.
Thanks brother
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| 2007/7/28 0:27 | |
| Re: | | Pastorfrin, I woke up this morning with hearing in the spirit "the noahide laws" in a way I couldn't shake and with a great heaviness of spirit.
I did a search on it immediately, not even awake, with my eyes barely open. It turned out that the search turned up with Public Law 102-14, 102nd Congress. I went as far as page 6. That was sufficient. The two things I felt the Lord showing is that it depends on who says who is Lord or God and secondly the punishment by death for breaking these. I guess Revelation is clear enough, or the Lord in His Gospels, about these things. Hatred is being passed of as "righteous indignation" once again in the Church and now in a religious sense in the world and we're warned, it will only increase. I believe that is why Jesus was so clear to the Pharisees, warning that "anger is murder in the heart". If He also warned that in the future it will be those who take us to task in the religious meeting places and put some to death ... then I understand how this returning to the law is relevant and is the other part of the 'something horrible' that we're still feeling is the half of this that has been heavy on me for a while now.
Seek the Lordand Find Rest by Alexander Maclaren.
Also brother, I asked on another thread, where do you find these devotionals by Alexander Maclaren ? That question slipped to another page so that is probably why you hadn't seen the question.
Yes, seek the LORD and find rest.
Thank you for always pointing that way for us all.
Great Peace have they that Love His Word. Amen.
Pray one for another.
thank you pastor. |
| 2007/7/28 12:37 | | pastorfrin Member
Joined: 2006/1/19 Posts: 1406
| Re: | | Hi Annie,
Yes hatred is not a fruit of the Spirit and not an emotion one in the body of Christ can have. I know many will say yes you can, but think what hatred really does. Hatred does not keep you from sin it causes you to sin. Speaking of Alexander MacLaren, here is an article by him. I think you will enjoy this ......
The World's Hatred, As Christ Saw It by Alexander MacLaren (1826-1910)
/ But all these things will they do unto you for My names sake, because they know not Him that sent Me. If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. He that hateth Me, hateth My Father also. If I had not done among them the works which none ether man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both Me and My Father. But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated Me without a cause John 15:21-25 Our Lord has been speaking of the worlds hostility to His followers, and tracing that to its hostility to Himself. In these solemn words of our text He goes still deeper, and parallels the relation which His disciples bear to Him and the consequent hostility that falls on them, with the relation which He bears to the Father and the consequent hostility that falls on Him: They hate you because they hate Me. And then His words become sadder and pierce deeper, and with a tone of wounded love and disappointed effort and almost surprise at the worlds requital to Him, He goes on to say, They hate Me, because they hate the Father.
So, then, here we have, in very pathetic and solemn words, Christs view of the relation of the world to Him and to God.
I. The first point that He signalises is the worlds ignorance.
These things they will do unto you, and they will do them for My names sake; they will do them because they know not Him that sent Me. The world, in Christs language, is the aggregate of godless men. Or, to put it a little more sharply, our Lord, in this context, gives in His full adhesion to that narrow view which divides those who have come under the influence of His truth into two portions. There is no mincing of the matter in the antithesis which Christ here draws; no hesitation, as if there were a great central mass, too bad for a blessing perhaps, but too good for a curse; which was neither black nor white, but neutral grey. No! however it may be with the masses beyond the reach of the dividing and revealing power of His truth, the men that come into contact with Him, like a heap of metal filings brought into contact with a magnet, mass themselves into two bunches, the one those who yield to the attraction, and the other those who do not. The one is My disciples, and the other is the world. And now, says Jesus Christ, all that mass that stands apart from Him, and,?611 having looked upon Him with the superficial eye of those men round about Him at that day, or of the men who hear of Him now, have no real love to Him have, as the underlying motive of their conduct and their feelings, a real ignorance of God. They know not Him that sent Me.
Our Lord assumes that He is so completely the Copy and Revealer of the divine nature as that any man that looks upon Him has had the opportunity of becoming acquainted with God, and that any man who turns away from Him has lost that opportunity. The God that the men who do not love Jesus Christ believe in, is not the Father that sent Him. It is a fragment, a distorted image tinted by the lens. The world has its conception of God; but outside of Jesus Christ and His manifestation of the whole divine nature, the worlds God is but a syllable, a fragment, a broken part of the perfect completeness. The Father of an infinite majesty, and of as infinite a tenderness, the stooping God, the pitying God, the forgiving God, the loving God is known only where Christ is accepted. In other hearts He may be dimly hoped for, in other hearts He may be half believed in, in other hearts He may be thought possible; but hopes and anticipations and fears and doubts are not knowledge, and they who see not the light in Christ see but the darkness. Out of Him God is not known, and they that turn away from His beneficent manifestation turn their faces to the black north, from which no sun can shine. Brother, do you know God in Christ? Unless you do, you do not know the God who is.
But there is a deeper meaning in that word than simply the possession of true thoughts concerning the divine nature. We know God as we know one another; because God is a Person, as we are persons, and the only way to know persons is through familiar acquaintance and sympathy. So the world which turns away from Christ has no acquaintance with God. This is a surface fact. Our Lord goes on to show what lies below it.
II. His second thought here is the worlds ignorance in the face of Christs light is worse than ignorance; it is sin.
Mark how He speaks: If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin. And then again: If I had not done amongst them the works which none other men did, they had not had sin. So then He puts before us two forms of His manifestation of the divine nature, by His words and His works. Of these two He puts His words foremost, as being a deeper and more precious and brilliant?612 revelation of what God is than are His miracles. The latter are subordinate, they come as a second source of illumination. Men who will not see the beauty and listen to the truth that lie in His word may perchance be led by His deed. But the word towers in its nature high above the work, and the miracle to the word is but like the picture in the childs book to the text, fit for feeble eyes and infantile judgments, but containing far less of the revelation of God than the sacred words which He speaks. First the words, next the miracles.
But notice, too, how decisively, and yet simply and humbly and sorrowfully, our Lord here makes a claim which, on the lips of any but Himself, would have been mere madness of presumption. Think of any of us saying that our words made all the difference between innocent ignorance and criminality! Think of any of us saying that to listen to us, and not be persuaded, was the sin of sins! Think of any of us pointing to our actions and saying, In these God is so manifest that not to see Him augurs wickedness, and is condetonation! And yet Jesus Christ says all this. And, what is more wonderful, nobody wonders that He says it, and the world believes that He is saying the truth when He says it.
How does that come? There is only one answer; only one. His words were the illuminating manifestation of God, and His deeds were the plain and unambiguous operation of the divine hand then and there, only because He Himself was divine, and in Him God was manifested in the flesh. But passing from that, notice how our Lord hers declares that in comparison with the sin of not listening to His words, and being taught by His manifestation, all other sins dwindle into nothing. If I had not spoken, they had not had sin. That does not mean, of course, that these men would have been clear of all moral delinquency; it does not mean that there would not have been amongst them crimes against their own consciences, crimes against the law written on their own hearts, crimes against the law of revelation. There were liars, impure men, selfish men, and men committing all the ordinary forms of human transgression amongst them. And yet, says Christ, black and bespattered as these natures are, they are white in comparison with the blackness of the man who, looking into His face, sees nothing there that he should desire. Beside the mountain belching out its sulphurous flame the little pimple of a molehill is nought. And so, says Christ, heaven heads the count of sirra with this unbelief.
Ah, brother, as light grows responsibility grows, and this is the misery of all illumination that comes through Jesus Christ, that where it does not draw a man into His sweet love, and fill him with the knowledge of God which is eternal life, it darkens his nature and aggravates his condemnation, and lays a heavier burden upon his soul. The truth that the measure of light is the measure of guilt has many aspects. It turns a face of alleviation to the dark places of the earth; but just in the measure that it lightens the condemnation of the heathen, it adds weight to the condemnation of you men and women who are bathed in the light of Christianity, and all your days have had it streaming in upon you. The measure of the guilt is the brightness of the light. No shadows are so black as those which the intense sunshine of the tropics casts. And you and I live in the very tropical regions of divine revelation, and if we turn away from Him that spoke on earth and speaketh from heaven, of how much sorer punishment, think you, shall we be thought worthy than those who live away out in the glimmering twilight of an unevangelised paganism, or who stood by the side of Jesus Christ when they had only His earthly life to teach them?
III. The ignorance which is sin is the manifestation of hatred.
Our Lord has sorrowfully contemplated the not knowing God, which in the blaze of His light can only come from wilful closing of the eyes, and is therefore the very sin of sins. But that, sad as it is, is not all which has to he said about that blindness of unbelief in Him. It indicates a rooted alienation of heart and mind and will from God, and is, in fact, the manifestation of an unconscious but real hatred. It is an awful saying, and one which the lips into which grace was poured could not pronounce without a sigh. But it is our wisdom to listen to what it was His mercy to say.
Observe our Lords identification of Himself with the Father, so as that the feelings with which men regard Him are, ipso facto, the feelings with which they regard the Father God. He that hath seen Me hath seen the Father. He that hath loved Me hath loved the Father. He that hath hated He hath hated the Father. An ugly word a word that a great many of us think far too severe and harsh to be applied to men who simply are indifferent to the divine love. Some say, I am conscious of no hatred. I do not pretend to be a Christian, but I do not hate God. Take the ordinary run of people round about us in the world; if you say God is not in all their thoughts, I agree with you; but if you say that they hate God, I do not believe it.?614 Well, what do you think the fact that men go through their days and weeks and months and years, and have not God in all their thoughts, indicates as to the central feeling of their hearts towards God? Granted that there is not actual antagonism, because there is no thought at all, do you think it would be possible for a man who loved God to go on for a twelvemonth and never think of, or care to please, or desire to be near, the object that he loved? And inasmuch as, deep down at the bottom of our moral being, there is no such thing possible as indifference and a perfect equipoise in reference to God, it is clear enough, I think, that although the word must not be pressed as if it meant conscious and active antagonism, where there is no love there is hate.
If a man does not love God as He is revealed to him in Jesus Christ, he neither cares to please Him nor to think about Him, nor does he order his life in obedience to His commands. And if it be true that obedience is the very life-breath of love, disobedience or non-obedience is the manifestation of antagonism, and antagonism towards God is the same thing as hate. Dear friends, I want some of my hearers to-day who have never honestly asked themselves the question of what their relation to God is, to go down into the deep places of their hearts and test themselves by this simple inquiry: Do I do anything to please Him? Do I try to serve Him? Is it a joy to me to be near Him? Is the thought of Him a delight, like a fountain in the desert or the cool shadow of a great rock in the blazing wilderness? Do I turn to Him as my Home, my Friend, my All? If I do not, am I not deceiving myself by fancying that I stand neutral? There is no neutrality in a mans relation to God. It is one thing or other. Ye cannot serve God and Mammon. The friendship of the world is enmity against God. IV. And now, lastly, note how our Lord here touches the deep thought that this ignorance, which is sin, and is more properly named hatred, is utterly irrational and causeless.
All this will they do that it might be fulfilled which is written in their law, They hated Me without a cause. One hears sighing through these words the Masters meek wonder that His love should be so met, and that the requital which He receives at mens hands, for such an unexampled and lavish outpouring of it, should be such a carelessness, reposing upon a hidden basis of such a rooted alienation.?
Without a cause; yes! that suggests the deep thought that the most mysterious and irrational thing in mens whole history and experience is the way in which they recompense God in Christ for what He has done for them. Be astonished, O ye heavens! and wonder, O ye earth! said one of the old prophets; the mystery of mysteries, which can give no account of itself to satisfy reason, which has no apology, excuse, or vindication, is just that when God loves me I do not love Him back again; and that when Christ pours out the whole fullness of His heart upon me, my dull and obstinate heart gives back so little to Him who has given me so much. Without a cause. Think of that Cross; think, as every poor creature on earth has a right to think, that he and she individually were in the mind and heart of the Saviour when He suffered and died, and then think of what we have brought Him for it. De we not stand ashamed at if I might use so trivial a word, the absurdity as well as at the criminality of our requital? Causeless love on the one side, occasioned by . nothing but itself, and causeless indifference on the other, occasioned by nothing but itself, are the two powers that meet in this mystery mens rejection of the infinite love of God.
My friend, come away from the unreasonable people, come away from the men who can give no account of their attitude. Come away from those who pay benefits by carelessness, and a Love that died by an indifference that will not cast an eye upon that miracle of mercy, and let His love kindle the answering flame in your hearts. Then you will know God as only they who love Christ know Him, and in the sweetness of a mutual bond will lose the misery of self, and escape the deepening condemnation of those who see Christ on the Cross and do not care for the sight, nor learn by it to know the infinite tenderness and holiness of the Father that sent Him.
Archived by Robert L. Cobb -Administrator, News For Christians Dot Com
Heres a link to some of MacLaren's works.
http://www.ccel.org/m/maclaren/?show=worksBy
Hope you enjoy
In His Love pastorfrin
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| 2007/7/28 13:17 | Profile |
| Re: Something Horrible | | [color=000099]Although David Noakes is probably not known to most of you, I believe this is relevant to this thread. I also believe most here will witness to it as being a true word. It is especially for church leaders, but relevant to all of us. It also fits in with what many have said on this thread.
in Him
Jeannette[/color]
WALKING ON WATER A Prophecy to leaders in the Church (Through David Noakes, printed in Prophecy Today magazine, Date? 1990's)
'In the days which are to come , that part of the Church which will survive and prevail as overcomers will be that part which has learned to walk upon the waters, trusting only in me. There will be such storms that it will no longer be possible, as it were, to cross the waters by the ordinary means of using a boat, for the storms will be such that any boat will founder.
The ways of traditional church organisation will not be adequate for the needs, because they will be too rigid and inflexible to withstand the wind and the waves, and those who have put their trust in them for their security will be like those who find themselves in a boat which is overwhelmed and doomed to sink.
'In those days only those who have learned to walk upon the waters will walk in safety. Do not put my people into rigid formal structures, for to do this is to put them into a boat which will seem adequate and comfortable while the waters are calm, but will later become a place of death for those whose only experience has been to get in and enjoy the ride.
'The structure of my church is not to be like a ship, a monolithic whole, a structure created by men. It is to be my body, a thing which is completely mobile and flexible, able to respond and adapt to the needs of the moment.
'A body will survive; but any structure created through the wisdom and efforts of man will prove to be like the ship which will sink in the time of trouble and pressure. Do not over-organise my people but teach them the ways of God; teach them the way of listening for the voice of my Spirit, and of spontaneous action in obedience to those promptings.
'Teach them not to rely upon men or upon any form of organised structure, but teach them that each one must have his trust solely in me, the Head of the body, who alone has the wisdom to guide his people through the stormy waters.
'The days are coming when every item of your security which depends on the ways of man and the structures of the world will be taken from you, No matter how hard you have laboured to build it up and no matter how much my people have asked me to bless it, it will all be like having placed your treasure in a bank which has suddenly closed its doors to you and will permit you no access.
'Teach my people, therefore, the way of walking on the water. Teach them in these days while the waters are yet calm to put their eyes upon me with a whole-hearted intensity, and to trust me implicitly in all matters, whether they seem great or small.
'As each member learns to recognise and obey the instructions of the Head, so all together will begin to be able to function as one body.
'This will never come about through human organisation, but only as they learn to walk continually under the direct leading of my Spirit. Your task is not to organise them but rather to teach them how to walk hand in hand with me.
Consider what is written in my Word and hold it close to your hearts.
'Thus it is written, "Cursed is the man who trusts in man and makes flesh his strength, whose heart departs from the Lord, for he shall be like a shrub in the desert, and shall not see when good comes, but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land which is not inhabited. Blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, for he shall be like a tree planted by the waters, which spreads out its roots by the river and will not fear when heat comes, but its leaf will be green; and will not be anxious in the year of drought, nor will cease from yielding fruit."
'Let me teach you how to live and how to lead my people according to this word, in order that I may have a people who are able to walk upon the waters in the day of the storm.'
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| 2007/7/28 17:24 | | pastorfrin Member
Joined: 2006/1/19 Posts: 1406
| Re: 'Walking on Water' | | Hi LittleGift,
Thank you for the prophecy Walking on Water. If one is waiting to see certain things happen before they commit all to Christ, then it will be too late. Even the elect would be deceived if it were possible. Those who claim to be Christ and trust in the arm of the flesh now, will continue to do so and those who are committed to Christ now, will be strengthened then. John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
We may all experience walking on water and eating manna before our eyes behold Him.
Dear Lord, may we have ears to hear and eyes to see what your Spirit is saying and doing today.
In His Love pastorfrin
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| 2007/7/28 19:52 | Profile |
| Re: | | Brother, thank you for the sources I had asked for on ccel.
Much good on both sites that carry these things. Thank you Pastor.
The other day I posted what verses that were placed on my heart and then yesterday, sister brokenvessel got the same verses.
[b]I know thy works, and thy labor, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: and hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast labored, and hast not fainted. [i]Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. [/i] Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. [/b]
I did a study way back what the Nicolaitanes were.
Won't post it here though, not to worry :-)
Your edifying post has gotten me back up from slumber time. This has to stop happening - ha.
Quote:
[b]Dear friends, I want some of my hearers to-day who have never honestly asked themselves the question of what their relation to God is, to go down into the deep places of their hearts and test themselves by this simple inquiry: Do I do anything to please Him? Do I try to serve Him? Is it a joy to me to be near Him? Is the thought of Him a delight, like a fountain in the desert or the cool shadow of a great rock in the blazing wilderness? Do I turn to Him as my Home, my Friend, my All? If I do not, am I not deceiving myself by fancying that I stand neutral? There is no neutrality in a mans relation to God. It is one thing or other.
If a man does not love God as He is revealed to him in Jesus Christ, he neither cares to please Him nor to think about Him, nor does he order his life in obedience to His commands. And if it be true that obedience is the very life-breath of love, disobedience or non-obedience is the manifestation of antagonism, and antagonism towards God is the same thing as hate.
Dear friends, I want some of my hearers to-day who have never honestly asked themselves the question of what their relation to God is, to go down into the deep places of their hearts and test themselves by this simple inquiry: Do I do anything to please Him? Do I try to serve Him? Is it a joy to me to be near Him? Is the thought of Him a delight, like a fountain in the desert or the cool shadow of a great rock in the blazing wilderness? Do I turn to Him as my Home, my Friend, my All? If I do not, am I not deceiving myself by fancying that I stand neutral? There is no neutrality in a mans relation to God. It is one thing or other. Ye cannot serve God and Mammon. The friendship of the world is enmity against God.
IV. And now, lastly, note how our Lord here touches the deep thought that this ignorance, which is sin, and is more properly named hatred, is utterly irrational and causeless.
All this will they do that it might be fulfilled which is written in their law, They hated Me without a cause. One hears sighing through these words the Masters meek wonder that His love should be so met, and that the requital which He receives at mens hands, for such an unexampled and lavish outpouring of it, should be such a carelessness, reposing upon a hidden basis of such a rooted alienation.?
Without a cause; yes! that suggests the deep thought that the most mysterious and irrational thing in mens whole history and experience is the way in which they recompense God in Christ for what He has done for them. Be astonished, O ye heavens! and wonder, O ye earth! said one of the old prophets; the mystery of mysteries, which can give no account of itself to satisfy reason, which has no apology, excuse, or vindication, is just that when God loves me I do not love Him back again; and that when Christ pours out the whole fullness of His heart upon me, my dull and obstinate heart gives back so little to Him who has given me so much. Without a cause. Think of that Cross; think, as every poor creature on earth has a right to think, that he and she individually were in the mind and heart of the Saviour when He suffered and died, and then think of what we have brought Him for it. De we not stand ashamed at if I might use so trivial a word, the absurdity as well as at the criminality of our requital? Causeless love on the one side, occasioned by . nothing but itself, and causeless indifference on the other, occasioned by nothing but itself, are the two powers that meet in this mystery mens rejection of the infinite love of God.
My friend, come away from the unreasonable people, come away from the men who can give no account of their attitude. Come away from those who pay benefits by carelessness, and a Love that died by an indifference that will not cast an eye upon that miracle of mercy, and let His love kindle the answering flame in your hearts. Then you will know God as only they who love Christ know Him, and in the sweetness of a mutual bond will lose the misery of self, and escape the deepening condemnation of those who see Christ on the Cross and do not care for the sight, nor learn by it to know the infinite tenderness and holiness of the Father that sent Him. [/b]
Just seemed it went with the word to Ephesus that our sister shared and confirmed. Also many things that Corrie Ten Boom had written and others who had seen very dark days.
Thank you both and thank you for being a great on-line Pastor. You've taught us all love and peace and it says that "His fruit" - when it's from Him - "remaineth" - and nothing can take that from us. Bless you and your flock.
I'll enjoy those sermons greatly.
Gratefully by His Grace alone.
Annie
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| 2007/7/29 3:23 | |
| Re: | | Happy Sunday :-D , Hope it's a great one.
Woke up again on a disquieting side of the bed, as they say. In line with last days deceptions, what appears evident through many of the Scriptural warnings is being deceived by false teachers, etc..
What my Pastor and a Professor once said is, to watch very carefully a leader who is putting others down a lot and to watch that they will come against the very thing that they are doing in order to take that suspicion off of themselves. That shook me a bit back then, but it's proved true with every leader of groups that I heard on the wacky radio preacher shows and Internet preachers. That's why, some of the Discernment groups are weird. They have no Love and are nasty to other Discernment groups. Sandy Simpson is still good and those like him. It's just getting weirder in not just discernment groups, it's getting pandemically weird with leaders of groups, as the Bible said it would be.
Ha, I learned to say "still good" because any man could go off and that's why it's important to just read anyone's "stuff" with discernment from The Holy Spirit {that still small voice} & The Word because any man can go off. Reckon that's why I prefer 'dead' Authors ?
100% The Word and 100% The HOLY Spirit.
Woke up this morning remembering all that was taught years ago and having to shake myself with those positive memories of those who didn't control their people and so forth.
It appears that in the last days, control will be more of an issue than doctrine alone. The 'personality' of the leader is the most important aspect to look at when joining a group or Church or whatever.
That's where the fine line is now. Before only "cults" were renowned for their leaders, but now it's coming on more and more that the doctrine may O.K., but one must know in Spirit and Truth the role and proper function and limits of the leaders.
If it were possible, even the elect would be deceived. If we think we can't be deceived we already are.
Anyhow, felt a strong warning come today. With those verses about the Church at Ephesus {who had their doctrine right but lost their Love} and this issue about personality cults, that the Word talks about .... How else could the Elect possibly be deceived. It couldn't just be just by doctrine alone, it must be "spiritual". 'Control' is also the issue here and the not allowing people to be the individuals that The LORD created them to be. Attempts to conform them so much so, that their personality begins to change and they lose their obedience to GOD out of LOVE for Him alone and because of a form of legalism or control or subtle mind control, in order to "fit in", They lose their First Love. John, in all of his books quotes that Love is the basis for all that we do in Christ, including obeying Him by His two Chief commandments and trusting Him enough to fully depend on His Spirit to guide & teach & protect. I think child-like comes through a lot there, as far as dependence on Him and not others. Others have their place, but ultimately it's us standing before Him alone.
Pastorfrin, I'd like to post a few tips I got off two websites because of this prompting from Ephesus.
Thank you for being a good shepherd! Many Blessings to you in Christ Jesus. The NAME above ALL names.
Quote:
People in cults often develop a distinct new cult identity or personality. This personality will be consistent with the qualities valued by the group and its leader(s) and correspond rigidly to its doctrine.
It is very important to recognize this process through which destructive cults can falsify and/or submerge an existing personality. And how they then can superimpose upon the member their own preferred personality traits. Awareness of this process will better prepare you to cope with a loved one who may develop a personality you don't readily recognize. That cult personality may exhibit traits, which are otherwise often confusing and at times may even appear obnoxious. But by recognizing the origin and controlling forces behind such behavior you can learn to be more sensitive, patient, tolerant and understanding.
The realization that you often may not be dealing with someone's genuine personality can enable family and friends to more easily avoid angry responses, unproductive emotional outbursts and confrontations. For example, a cult member may be hypercritical, offer harsh judgements and/or act needlessly punitive or petty. In contrast at times cult members may also seem emotionally flat and/or insensitive. These traits should be seen as an expression of the cult's preferred personality, which they have been taught to imitate.
Milieu Control - the control of the environment including information, associations, time, and energy work to exclude any opportunity for opposition while also promoting the 'party line'.
Mystical Manipulation - this is the 'higher calling' for the follower to be a part of a utopian goal which requires his full devotion. The followers see the leaders as having achieved this higher calling hence they are worthy to be followed.
Demand For Purity - the utopian goal can only be achieved by purity of devotion. Any failure to succeed means impurity exists somewhere and will be searched out by those in control.
Cult of Confession - Failure to succeed means confessions must be made. Any weakness or failure, real or perceived, are to be confessed for the sake of the group. Even confessions where no wrong was actually done can spur the group to more purity.
Sacred Science - The ideology, doctrine and mission of the group are so sacred that they must not be doubted or questioned. To do so is one of the worst offenses possible. However, without the option of questioning, a lie cannot be uncovered.
Loading the Language - Certain words and phrases are so loaded with meaning that stark choices are implied leading to the end of critical thinking.
Doctrine Over Person - What you see, hear or think is irrelevant in the face of the groups doctrine. You must submerge your opinions in the group's worldview.
Dispensing of Existence - Only those who are committed to the group are valued. Those who oppose or betray the group can be dismissed, defamed, disfellowshipped, or killed.
Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. John 8:32, 36
http://www.watchman.org/cults/index.htm
Also like Jesse Penn-Lewis' writings.
LORD Bless. |
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