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 Re:

David... I guess the question is: How much false doctrine and teaching does it take for someone to be a false teacher?

See... we can all disagree with doctrines like the rapture. I dont think anyone can say with 100% certainty that they know the rapture will happen before, during or after the tribulation. I lean toward pre-trib, but I've heard compelling arguments for post-trib.

Thats not "false doctrine". True false doctrine is misrepresents God, who He is, and how He operates. It gives someone a false impression of God's character. This is what WOF'ers do. They say if you have the faith, God WILL heal you. So they believe with all their heart, but God doesnt heal them. So then the person believes it's their fault, when all along, God had a better plan for them... that didnt include their being healed.

You also have to ask yourself this... if it's God's will for the believer to be healed of all sickness and disease (as Joyce, Copeland, Hinn etc teach), then why do these people die? Why did Kathryn Kuhlman teach this, and then die of cancer? Why did "dad" Hagin die? Why doesnt Benny Hinn tell his audience that he has personal doctors that travel with him?

Why werent the apostles rich? Why were they persecuted?

Why is the strongest church in the world the persecuted underground church of China? Why are those Chinese Christians poorer than dirt?

There will always be differences on "minor" doctrines among believers. But they are minor because the differences do not mis-represent God.

WOF grossly misrepresents God.

David, I truly do love you. I've been tough on you today. I coach football. I am the toughest on my players who come across as abrasive... but my intention is not to be mean, or break them down... but to teach.

I'm not in authority over you, and I'm not here to teach. But I did get your attention, didnt I? And now that I have it, I believe we can settle down and discuss these issues as men. Men who love the Lord.

You'll find you will get much further with folks here by reasoning together, and not gettting offended at every turn. No one here wants to hurt or offend. But truth sometimes stings, and trying to candy coat things doesnt help.

A spoonfull of sugar does help the medicine go down... but it also creates cavities in your teeth. Know what I mean?

Krispy

 2007/6/21 13:18
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear hmmhmm,

thank you so much for the link to that thread..
wow, that was crazy because it is so much what you see now and what was always..

the words may change or be draped in different vocabulary with different terminology, but the heart of the words and the motives are still the same throughout the centuries.. and should we be surprised?? is not their father the devil behind all of the anti-Christ doctrine??

we question teachings and doctrine and get responses like "but they are so nice" or "they help a lot of people", but if someone preaches another Jesus and another gospel, then they are not helping anyone but satan himself.. but many do not think of this when this kinda stuff is talked about..

anyways, thanks hmmhmm for the link.. it was very helpful and i'm sure i will continue to dwell on this for a little bit..

 2007/6/21 13:21Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Krispy, I think truth is sometimes elusive. there are valid and invalid questionss. For example I cant say well " if he is such a great evagelist why did his wife die in sin?Or how about this-"He couldnt be an evangelist because he became an alcohaulic."You cant cancel someone out over an invalid question.
Have you ever prayed for sommeone and had your prayer answered?
Would this be a miracle?
Maybe God is moving you into the healing ministry!......David

 2007/6/21 13:43Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I think truth is sometimes elusive



Not so much... The Holy Spirit will move us into all truth. Within scripture is truth. And it's not as hidden as we want to believe it is.

Quote:
For example I cant say well " if he is such a great evagelist why did his wife die in sin?Or how about this-"He couldnt be an evangelist because he became an alcohaulic."You cant cancel someone out over an invalid question.



I dont understand your point with this. I dont think this has anything to do with what we're talking about.

As for an evangelist who becomes an alcoholic... according to scripture he is no longer qualified to be in the ministry. He is making a public mockery of God. Why do you think every once in a while God cleans house? Look at Bakker, Swaggert... and recently Tim Haggard. An evangelist or preacher can not be perfect, but they are to be above reproach. Thats just flat out scripture in black & white.

Do you have any idea how many adulterous divorced people are in the ministry in Charismatic/WOF circles? In direct violation of scripture (books of Timothy & Titus).

Quote:
Have you ever prayed for sommeone and had your prayer answered?



Yes... everyone here on this forum prayed with me concerning a friend who was diagnosed with lung cancer 5 or 6 months ago. Today he has a clean bill of health, praise God.

Quote:
Would this be a miracle?



Absolutely... God does miracles every day. God is also sovereign, and sometimes His plans involve not healing.

Quote:
Maybe God is moving you into the healing ministry!



Nope... Any healing God has done has been by His own hand, and nothing to do with wretched me. All I did was petition the Lord in prayer, and prayed for His will to be done. Period. No formula's no mumbo-jumbo... just asked that His will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Krispy

 2007/6/21 14:00
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

Quote:
True false doctrine misrepresents God, who He is, and how He operates. It gives someone a false impression of God's character.



That's it, right there, good definition. However, "true false dcotrine" is somewhat of a contradiction in terms. ;-)

 2007/6/21 14:05Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden

 Re:

i like what Zac Poonen says, or something like this

-Can you distinguish between a preacher who is interested in making you holy, and a preacher who is after your money, then you will avoid much deception.


The quote isn't 100% accurate because i don't remember it exactly, but it captures the "heart" of what Mr Zac Poonen said in that sermon. I also heard another thing that he said, as long as he has money in his own pocket why should he ask you for yours?

they don't have "offerings" in the church he is a member of.

things to think about, i always wondered, if it is Gods will what those guys on TV are doing? how come they have to beg everyone to give to them? why don't they ask God instead?

i listened to one hour sermon by Benny Hinn, 55 minutes it was absolutely right bible doctrine and i had to agree with what he said...but the last five was just out to get your money, I used to be a thief myself so when someone "builds up" the atmosphere just to get your money i know how to do that, you can get people by getting them to pity somone or something, you can do it by promise them good things will come to them if they give, they will prosper....

and as a drug addict i was a master at these things, so when i se these men and women preach on TV, its like a chill down my back, even worse when i see the people that follow them, then my heart breaks.

[b]Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.[/b]


we need to know what the bible says better then any other generation, know it know it know it.


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2007/6/21 14:15Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

it's funny, the WOF preachers say that if you don't get healed, wealthy, or physically prosperous, then you don't have enough faith.. but like hmmhmm said just below, why do they have to ask man for money.. do they not have enough faith to command that God just give them money?

why the begging and stories to snaggle money out of people's pocket? why the empty promises so that their kingdom can be established here on earth where moth and rust destroy and where thieves can break in and steal.

things take on such a different light in view of eternity..

 2007/6/21 15:41Profile









 Re:

It's kinda like psychics... who never win the lottery.

Krispy

 2007/6/21 15:57









 Re:

yeah, but in many of there cases they do win... by making merchandise ot there followers as the scriptures state...

 2007/6/21 16:03
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

krispy, the reason i brought in the analogy is because you said of kathryn kohlman,
if she was a faith healer why did she die of cancer. and my point is , if we can connect those dots then the sky is the limit as to what i am allowed to come up with.
I am stiil feeling my way along here, but the anti everything crowd here ...... this is new to me. is this some kind of baptist forum?I think if I had on a baptist hat I could hi 5 99% of the bros here,Is this a coincidence?.....David

 2007/6/21 17:12Profile





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