SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Evan Roberts Quote
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | 86 | 87 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

Katy, what you are doing on this thread is diabolical.

You are taking all for fools.

YOU, once agan, began by labeling me with titles and other things we've brought out already.

Next, before Ormly had a chance to explain himself, you labeled him at the least, 10 different cults.

Now, your sarcasm to Forrest who's thread you are on.

Now, you are saying that these people have done to you what you have done all along here, starting with me.

And doing all possible to destroy the Unity here, first with me, when I asked for unity here, and you started your labeling then, not wanting unity over this 2000 year old controversy that splits the Church.

How dare you go after Forrest now.

Quote: "Do you see any of those that would *PURPOSELY WITH MALICE AND FORTHOUGHT* provoke someone?"


YES KATY - YOU! Since page twenty something on this thread starting with me first.

Just when we thought this conversation could get back on topic and away from Accusations, here you come again and I KNEW Philip's post would bate you to come back for more of your "stuff".

Too bad some of the men on this Forum don't have an ounce of discernment to see what you would do if this thread kept going.

Is splitting up this group of Members worth this ?

I've dealt with all types in my lifetime, but now I am ashamed of & for those who have kept this thread going.
When our joint prayers were that this thread would either be locked or at least be allowed to continue on topic without your labeling and yet you've come back for more ... you have now become an object lesson on spiritual warfare or showing how easily men can be taken in by a woman with smilies and Christ loves you.

I couldn't peg you earlier, but now I have.
Had only one other similar experience in a Church many years ago.
A certain woman would come in and after the service, we couldn't understand how all the married men would circle her for conversation.

We later found out why.

 2007/7/14 7:00









 Re:

MrBillpro,

I want to thank you for your post here. Such wonderful Godly words of wisdom. May we all examine our hearts, and bring them to the Lord to examine, as *Only He* can know our true motives. We are to provoke one another to Love, as well as provoke to read God's Word, but never used to provoke to anger.

It's difficult when writing, because we express ourselves without someone seeing our face, our smile or love that is within. Or those who read from their own minds without putting on the *Mind of Christ* to see what you are saying to begin with, but are reading from the fleshly mind, these will always be offended.

A Great minister once said, the Greatest enemies in the Church are the Carnal Christians. What great insight he had.

Again, Thank you, and may we all re-read your words here and carry on.

Love in Christ
Katy-did





Quote:

There are numerous statements that seem designed to excuse unloving or reckless words in such exchanges. Perhaps you have encountered - or used - some of them yourself. Admittedly I have far too often said such things in the past to justify my calloused comments. They appear to be reasonable and wise comments meant to take the sting out of what has been or is about to be said. The following are representative.

"Don't take it personally."

"I've got to speak and defend the truth."

"Iron sharpens iron, you know."

Starting with the last statement, let's explore these claims a bit.

It is true that "iron sharpens iron": Pr 27.17 states, "Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another" (NASB). The question is whether this is true in every exchange between people or only in certain ones. It is not difficult to think of interactions in the Old Testament wherein the result was not necessarily beneficial to both. David's confrontation with Goliath seems to have been a sharpening experience for the former but not so much the latter (1 Sam 17). The meeting of Samuel and Agag (1 Sam 15.32-33) also comes to mind. In the New Testament, Peter's rebuke of Ananias and Sapphira seemed to be somewhat "dulling" for the deceitful couple.

Advice and commands to the contrary are also found in Scripture. Though there are many verses from the same book, i.e., Proverbs, that could be adduced, the following will suffice to dispel the universal application of 27.17:

"A fool does not delight in understanding, But only in revealing his own mind." - Pr 18.2
"When a wise man has a controversy with a foolish man, The foolish man either rages or laughs, and there is no rest." - Pr 29.9

Please understand that I am not accusing anyone of being a fool but am only seeking to demonstrate that there are some interactions that do not result in a mutual benefit. Iron can sharpen iron but, as anyone who has ever sharpened a knife knows, if it is not done properly iron can actually dull iron. So slapping Pr 27.17 on an argument does not prove that all such discussions are profitable.

Second, it is also true that Christians need to speak and defend the truth. The admonitions are hard to miss, especially in the New Testament. It is no less clear, however, that Christians are called to take the high road and to do the right thing in the right way. Perhaps the most obvious and sufficient statements come from Paul:

"As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; "but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, "from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love." - Eph 4.14-16
"Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person." - Col 4.16

"We urge you, brethren, admonish the unruly, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with everyone." - 1 Th 5.14

Even with the "unruly" we are commanded to be "patient." So our discussions and disagreements are limited by behavior that is loving, gracious, and patient.

Finally, there is my personal favorite: "Don't take it personally." If I understand this correctly, it means that I should not have an emotional reaction to an attack on my belief system but should instead process it cognitively and dispassionately, perhaps even stoically. The problem is that this is not possible: all thought has an affective component to it. The question is whether or not we are aware of the emotional valence or not.

LeDoux and Goleman argue that it is basically impossible to have conscious thought without there being an emotional component attached to it, but that the opposite is not true. All thoughts have emotions connected to them to some degree. Emotions are basic to the brain and are either consciously or unconsciously operative in any thoughts - and therefore conversations - we might have.

Fear, in fact, might be the most basic dimension of our mind - perhaps this is why Jesus so frequently told His disciples to "Fear not"? When something is said or communicated to us, it is impossible not to respond emotionally at some level. We are far better off being aware of what that emotional reaction is than to convince ourselves that we are not emotionally involved or moved by something that is said. Emotions will push us from behind if we are not aware of how they are influencing our thoughts and subsequent behaviors.

We need to keep this in mind, therefore, when we speak or write to others. How we say things is no less important than what we say. As the body of Christ, we have a wealth of knowledge and resources that any one of us - or even any single church or denomination - lacks individually. If we are to benefit from those resources, however, we must be diligent to obey 1 Cor 16.14: "Let all that you do be done in love."

All of us are prone to be suspicious of those who are "not like us" theologically; when such messages are couched in angry, disrespectful, or condescending tones it is especially difficult not to shoot the messenger and ignore the message.

/quote] :-)

 2007/7/14 7:34









 Re:

MrBillpro,

I want to thank you for your post here. Such wonderful Godly words of wisdom. May we all examine our hearts, and bring them to the Lord to examine, as *Only He* can know our true motives. We are to provoke one another to Love, as well as provoke to read God's Word, but never used to provoke to anger.

It's difficult when writing, because we express ourselves without someone seeing our face, our smile or love that is within. Or those who read from their own minds without putting on the *Mind of Christ* to see what you are saying to begin with, but are reading from the fleshly mind, these will always be offended.

A Great minister once said, the Greatest enemies in the Church are the Carnal Christians. What great insight he had.

Again, Thank you, and may we all re-read your words here and carry on.

Love in Christ
Katy-did





Quote:


There are numerous statements that seem designed to excuse unloving or reckless words in such exchanges. Perhaps you have encountered - or used - some of them yourself. Admittedly I have far too often said such things in the past to justify my calloused comments. They appear to be reasonable and wise comments meant to take the sting out of what has been or is about to be said. The following are representative.

"Don't take it personally."

"I've got to speak and defend the truth."

"Iron sharpens iron, you know."

Starting with the last statement, let's explore these claims a bit.

It is true that "iron sharpens iron": Pr 27.17 states, "Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another" (NASB). The question is whether this is true in every exchange between people or only in certain ones. It is not difficult to think of interactions in the Old Testament wherein the result was not necessarily beneficial to both. David's confrontation with Goliath seems to have been a sharpening experience for the former but not so much the latter (1 Sam 17). The meeting of Samuel and Agag (1 Sam 15.32-33) also comes to mind. In the New Testament, Peter's rebuke of Ananias and Sapphira seemed to be somewhat "dulling" for the deceitful couple.

Advice and commands to the contrary are also found in Scripture. Though there are many verses from the same book, i.e., Proverbs, that could be adduced, the following will suffice to dispel the universal application of 27.17:

"A fool does not delight in understanding, But only in revealing his own mind." - Pr 18.2
"When a wise man has a controversy with a foolish man, The foolish man either rages or laughs, and there is no rest." - Pr 29.9

Please understand that I am not accusing anyone of being a fool but am only seeking to demonstrate that there are some interactions that do not result in a mutual benefit. Iron can sharpen iron but, as anyone who has ever sharpened a knife knows, if it is not done properly iron can actually dull iron. So slapping Pr 27.17 on an argument does not prove that all such discussions are profitable.

Second, it is also true that Christians need to speak and defend the truth. The admonitions are hard to miss, especially in the New Testament. It is no less clear, however, that Christians are called to take the high road and to do the right thing in the right way. Perhaps the most obvious and sufficient statements come from Paul:

"As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; "but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, "from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love." - Eph 4.14-16
"Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person." - Col 4.16

"We urge you, brethren, admonish the unruly, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with everyone." - 1 Th 5.14

Even with the "unruly" we are commanded to be "patient." So our discussions and disagreements are limited by behavior that is loving, gracious, and patient.

Finally, there is my personal favorite: "Don't take it personally." If I understand this correctly, it means that I should not have an emotional reaction to an attack on my belief system but should instead process it cognitively and dispassionately, perhaps even stoically. The problem is that this is not possible: all thought has an affective component to it. The question is whether or not we are aware of the emotional valence or not.

LeDoux and Goleman argue that it is basically impossible to have conscious thought without there being an emotional component attached to it, but that the opposite is not true. All thoughts have emotions connected to them to some degree. Emotions are basic to the brain and are either consciously or unconsciously operative in any thoughts - and therefore conversations - we might have.

Fear, in fact, might be the most basic dimension of our mind - perhaps this is why Jesus so frequently told His disciples to "Fear not"? When something is said or communicated to us, it is impossible not to respond emotionally at some level. We are far better off being aware of what that emotional reaction is than to convince ourselves that we are not emotionally involved or moved by something that is said. Emotions will push us from behind if we are not aware of how they are influencing our thoughts and subsequent behaviors.

We need to keep this in mind, therefore, when we speak or write to others. How we say things is no less important than what we say. As the body of Christ, we have a wealth of knowledge and resources that any one of us - or even any single church or denomination - lacks individually. If we are to benefit from those resources, however, we must be diligent to obey 1 Cor 16.14: "Let all that you do be done in love."

All of us are prone to be suspicious of those who are "not like us" theologically; when such messages are couched in angry, disrespectful, or condescending tones it is especially difficult not to shoot the messenger and ignore the message.

/quote] :-)

 2007/7/14 7:36
JesusIsMyLrd
Member



Joined: 2005/10/28
Posts: 119
Iowa, USA

 Re:

Amen GrannieAnnie. i couldn't have put it better. It is what i have wanted to say, but didn't know how, or if it was appropriate, since i am not a moderator, i didn't know if it would be my place to be that strait forward.

Here is a question that i have had in my mind as i've been thinking on this thread for the past few days:

If an unbeliever would come to this website and look at the threads on this forum, would he/she see Christ in our replies? One person here on SI asked in another thread if all we do around ehre is argue. i wonder what the unconverted would say, if a Christian asked that question... Maybe we need something. Maybe we need a little more Phillipians 2:1-16.

i vote that we make up on this thread, and then leave it to rest. When i say make up, i mean that Katy should repent of her accusations to someone she does not know personally, and of her divisive attitude. Ormly should repent of his un-tactfulness, and the small stinging comments he has made. Everyone else (Those are the obvious ones above) if you have something in your heart agains another here on this thread: repent, confess to God, and make up with that one who you are offended with. This is for Christ's sake that i say this. It is not comfortable for me, since you may be offended, but i hope and pray you'll see my heart. i love Jesus more than you all, and what you think of me, so i'm risking saying this strait forward, so that maybe you will hear it... i trust that you all are godly enough to hear the faultering voice of a brother, and take it before the Lord. That's not a slam-- i really mean it that i think you are godly, that would take it before the Lord.

Let's be done with high talking with low living, brothers and sisters, and move onto humble speech with a heavenly life.

And FORREST... SHOULD REPENT OF EVER STARTING THIS THREAD!!! :-P :-P

(Just kidding sister!! You know me... that youthful sense of humor?? That's sometimes skewed? hahaha)

God bless you all. i hope you realise that i mean what i say, and i say what i mean, and that it is done out of a heart of concern for the testimony of Christ. He is worthy of higher things than we are giving through our attitudes on this thread.

Hope i said everything right... forgive me if i didn't, for i didn't mean to...

In Christ's hope,
-nathan


_________________
Nathan

 2007/7/14 7:42Profile









 Re:

Let's see what *GOD* has to say about such things.

What is Carnality according to Paul. Those who put the works of MAN over the Word of God. It's because of these works of man that there is division in Churches. So much division that we have probably 1,000,000,000 different demoninations...I'm of this one or I'm of that one. Yet, not one has realized these works of men have yet to be judged at teh Judgement seat of Christ, we have yet to see how much will be considered wood, hay and stubble. These are men such as we, working out their own salvation, with fear and trembling. Some may not even be there at all. We must build upon what Paul laid, a faoudation, and EACH is to build upon, and EACH will be judged according to how HE built. If you think you will be rewarded for piggy-tailing someone elses works, as though they were you own, you are greatly mistaken.

Let's take Paul's words here VERY seriously. Let all men be liars and God's word through Paul be TRUE.

1 Corinthians 3
1And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

2I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.

3For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

4For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?

5Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

6I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.

7So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

8Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

9For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.

10According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.

11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

18Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.

20And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.

21Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's;

22Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's;

23And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

 2007/7/14 8:06









 Re:

Quote:
Nathan said: If an unbeliever would come to this website and look at the threads on this forum, would he/she see Christ in our replies? One person here on SI asked in another thread if all we do around ehre is argue. i wonder what the unconverted would say, if a Christian asked that question... Maybe we need something. Maybe we need a little more Phillipians 2:1-16.



Brother, I said all but the exact words starting on or before page 20.

When I pleaded for Unity, I was told that was New Age Love Dove stuff and that what any of the rest of us believe it's not "the Gospel".

I dropped off this thread until I saw Ormly getting hit with Titles of cults on page 46 on.

Then Oswald Chambers got blasted.

I then tried to get the labeling to stop and ever since then.

If my & other's pleas for Unity on this thread is a crime also, then nothing of what you or me or anyone else says here will ever matter at all to God anymore.

Nathan, I know Forrest will know you're only joking with her, but Forrest and us others thought we were going to have a Normal SI discussion on this thread.

I only differ with you on letting this thread stay up front where all those you mentioned will see how we all can't come to terms over our own way of Salvation called "The Gospel".

I tried back on one of the early 20's pages or so, by saying we are living on a powder keg of a planet and need unity now more than ever and should never split over this particular doctrine, when none of the great Authors here can agree on this one doctrine, yet we still love them all, because what sense does it make to the world when Christians are arguing about what "The Gospel" is ?

The Gospel is supposed to mean "Good News".

What has this thread presented that to the world, or as you said, babes in Christ, was my question also.

 2007/7/14 8:24
JesusIsMyLrd
Member



Joined: 2005/10/28
Posts: 119
Iowa, USA

 Re:

Amen. Thanks for your words.

May Jesus be glorified.

-nathan


_________________
Nathan

 2007/7/14 8:35Profile









 Re:

And Dear Lord Jesus, Thank you for your WORDS.

In the end, when we stand before the Lord, It will be obedience to His Word that we will be judged, not those who bite and nip at your heals for staying in God's Word. They will have to give an account of those actions.

I wasn't aware this site was to exalt men over the Word of God. But now that GrannyAnny has made that perfectly clear, I will depart, with Love to all.

As God's Elect, I can exalt no other But the Lord God Himself, as 90% of my posts are scripture, not quotes of men, except to warn you to be very careful where some of these writings can be dangerous to the Health and wellbeing of your own walk with the Lord.

Paul's heart was to present every man perfect In Christ, and did not have the works of any man to help him do this. He gave us the Word of God, as the early Church was able to Grow in the Grace and Knowledge Jesus Christ through these alone.

We today have the same Word, the Same Holy Spirit, whom Jesus sent to teach us how to rightly divide the Word of God.

May God Bless you all and KEEP you in that Word.

With Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-did

 2007/7/14 9:28









 Re: Help us LORD.

[b]But It Is Hardly Credible That One Could Be So Positively Ignorant! [/b]

“Who art Thou, Lord?”
Acts 26:15

"The Lord spake thus to me with a strong hand." There is no escape when Our Lord speaks, He always comes with an arrestment of the understanding. Has the voice of God come to you directly? If it has, you cannot mistake the intimate insistence with which it has spoken to you in the language you know best, not through your ears, but through your circumstances.

God has to destroy our determined confidence in our own convictions. "I know this is what I should do" - and suddenly the voice of God speaks in a way that overwhelms us by revealing the depths of our ignorance. We have shown our ignorance of Him in the very way we determined to serve Him. We serve Jesus in a spirit that is not His, we hurt Him by our advocacy for Him, we push His claims in the spirit of the devil. Our words sound all right, but our spirit is that of an enemy. "He rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of." The spirit of our Lord in an advocate of His is described in 1 Corinthians 13.

Have I been persecuting Jesus by a zealous determination to serve Him in my own way? If I feel I have done my duty and yet have hurt Him in doing it, I may be sure it was not my duty, because it has not fostered the meek and quiet spirit, but the spirit of self-satisfaction. We imagine that whatever is unpleasant is our duty! Is that anything like the spirit of our Lord - "I delight to do Thy will, O My God."

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=9778

[b]
Justification By Faith[/b]

“For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of His Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.”
Romans 5:10

I am not saved by believing; I realize I am saved by believing. It is not repentance that saves me, repentance is the sign that I realize what God has done in Christ Jesus. The danger is to put the emphasis on the effect instead of on the cause. It is my obedience that puts me right with God, my consecration. Never! I am put right with God because prior to all, Christ died. When I turn to God and by belief accept what God reveals I can accept, instantly the stupendous Atonement of Jesus Christ rushes me into a right relationship with God; and by the supernatural miracle of God's grace I stand justified, not because I am sorry for my sin, not because I have repented, but because of what Jesus has done. The Spirit of God brings it with a breaking, all-over light, and I know, though I do not know how, that I am saved.

The salvation of God does not stand on human logic, it stands on the sacrificial Death of Jesus. We can be born again because of the Atonement of Our Lord. Sinful men and women can be changed into new creatures, not by their repentance or their belief, but by the marvellous work of God in Christ Jesus which is prior to all experience. The impregnable safety of justification and sanctification is God Himself. We have not to work out these things ourselves; they have been worked out by the Atonement. The supernatural becomes natural by the miracle of God; there is the realization of what Jesus Christ has already done - "It is finished."

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=10055


thank you Oswald Chambers.

 2007/7/14 9:46









 Re:

One last thing GrannyAnnie, so we may understand one another. In all mens words, we must pick off the meat and throw away the bone. But here is something even more wonderful then that, as I ask you to examine your own heart and ask yourself some questions only you have the answer to.


Does God only knock at the hearts of men only? Can a women sup with the Lord? Or are women only allowed the left over crumbs from the tables of men? How horribly we have perverted scripture to tell women they are second class citizens of Heaven, That they’ re not promised to sit with Christ in his throne as they too must be an overcomer. Do you really believe God has left you to be a prey to those who:

2 Timothy 3:
5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

The Lord Surely will come in and Sup with you dear ladies, not leaving you a prey to be seduced by these false teachers Timothy is talking about. Just know this invitation is to ALL, male and female alike.

Jesus Christ Said:
Revelation 3:
20Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


You will be amazed, for out of YOUR OWN bellies will flow rivers of Living waters.

Do you know, when the DAughters of Israel who's fathers died in their sin in the wilderness came and asked, "will we as daughters inherit the land that was to go to our fathers who's carcusses fell,who died in their sin in the wilderness...will WE inherit the land, or will it go to the nearest male relative. The verdice came in....The DAUGHTERS shall inherit the portion of land that was to go to their fathers.

Yes we too can drink and eat from the land of Milk and Honey. Taste ans see that the Lord is Good, Come and dine at HIS table and He will sup with you face to face.

With Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-did






 2007/7/14 10:49





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy