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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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Did the New Covenant take priority over teh Old?

You see, that is why the Pharisee's killed Jesus Christ. That is why the Pharisee's killed Paul.

This is why we are told to *rightly* divide teh Word of God. I guess that means there is a wrongly way to divide. Because of the wrongly division of God's Word....THAT is why there is division.

Do you know the word GRACE is never used in Matthew. Have you ever wondered why?

When Jesus says, when you see distruction coming, pray it is not on the SABBATH. Are YOU living under the Jewish SABBATH DAY?

We are to rightly divide the Word of God.

It's taken many posts to finally figure out what Ormly and your are talking about. Then out of no-where these articles about David Wilkerson and Hannah Hurnard came up...I know the Lord was trying to show me something. (He's never too soon, and He's never too late). I had no Idea about David Wilkerson’s involvement with her teachings.

Well, after filtering through many comments of Ormly and much of the New Age teaching in the Church (all kind of mixtures of false doctrines)and knowing Hannah Hurnard's books well, it all came into focus. When Ormly was asked about what he believed about the Blood of Jesus, forgiveness of Sin, etc, etc, both Ormly and you came unglued, and this is where the posts have gotten really personally insulting from both of you. This is a spirit of anti-Christ...I don't know if you know that, but it must be stresed for your sakes. It denies our redemption through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the forgiveness of sin and our life now in Him, ONLY because we are cleansed and forgiven through the Blood. Hebrews teaches this step by step. Same Gospel...just detailed about the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and how that sacrifice has Opened a New and living way.

Hebrews 10 is the greatest. Hannah a universalist, also denies salvation through the atonement, faith in Christ alone, but believes *we* have to purge our inner self to become holy. This is as false as it comes.

This is an Islam/Hindu concept, having no place in the Body of Christ, His Church. It's so dangerous. It's Christ in you the hope of Glory, *no longer I but Christ*.

The fellowship of His sufferings Philippians 3 is all together something different, but without having Christ in you, you are trying to produce a fellowship that is non-existent except in your own imagination, and the one Satan has deceived you both with.

Granny, Why would I continue to take the bashing you both give me…because I love insults? No because I pray something would get through.

Maybe I have a way of expressing myself that you don’t like. I know I'm very streight forward and to the point. So is James! Now I'm not james, but just pointing our we all have our own personalities. Look at all teh Apostles...each uniquely different, but all say the same thing.

Where have I ever lied to you about our salvation in Christ. I have not. I even found something from Matthew Henry because you posted something…I assumed you liked him???? That was out of LOVE Granny Annie, but you re so full of bitterness YOU can't see it.

GrannyAnnie, I do love you. If you believe God will not forgive you unless you forgive others, please show you have and practice what you are teaching, being an example of what you want Us to see and believe. I've forgiven you all and any indifferences we have, regardless of whether you forgive me or not. But if you are going to call me a liar and make up things about me...I will call you to explain yourself. That is also scriptural.

With Love in Christ Jesus

 2007/7/12 19:14


Please don't include me in any of your forgiveness, Katy, nor pray for me. I don't want your prayers or forgiveness.

 2007/7/12 19:49

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710


T. Austin-Sparks :

Everything has got to begin with us before it can be given to others with an effect or lasting value. We need to begin with personal history. We cannot live on the experience of others, however real those experiences were to them.

"I JESUS." Does not that impress you, coming right at the end of the Bible and being the last utterance of the Lord to His churches? Notice that He did not say, "I the Lord", but "I Jesus". All Bible students know that in the New Testament the name 'Jesus' refers to the days of His earthly life. After His exaltation they always added 'Lord' to His other titles and names, and the apostles only used the name Jesus alone when they wished to emphasise His perfect humanity. Used by itself the name refers back to His life of humiliation when He took the form of a man. "He was found in fashion as a man" (Philippians 2:7). The word 'fashion' means that in all outward appearance He was like other men. Another word is used of what He was inside; that was something other. But in this outward fashion as a man He took the name Jesus, which was one of the most common names in Palestine then. So the name carries us back to the day when He was going through all that which made spiritual history in Himself - tried, tested, tempted in all points like as we are (Hebrews 4:15) and being "made perfect through sufferings" (Hebrews 2:10). History was being made in His Humanity. As a Man, He was learning obedience by the things which He suffered (Hebrews 5:8). This in no way questions His deity. It means that though God incarnate, Jesus was knowing all about human life, making spiritual history in terms of manhood, with intrinsic values which will be for the ages of the ages. Having done all that in terms of manhood, He at last presents Himself to His churches, saying: "I Jesus".

Then there is the writer of the book who introduces himself with the phrase, "I John". His experience was on so much smaller a scale, yet in its measure it was true that what he wrote was not something which had come mechanically to him but the result of vital experience. Of the Word he was able to say: "That which we have heard, that which we have seen with our eyes, and our hands handled...". It has become a part of us. We have a vital relationship with the truth as it is in Him. It follows that we are now in a position to mention ourselves in relation to the testimony of Jesus.

Then Paul, who spoke of himself as "a man in Christ" was also allowed to bring himself into view with the authority of one who had history behind him: "Behold, I Paul say unto you..." (Galatians 5:2). What Paul taught had become the very substance of his being. He was not talking about abstract truths but about things which had actually happened to him. Having had the truth wrought into him he could affirm in the Spirit: "I Paul say unto you".

Was that not also true of Daniel? "O MAN greatly beloved" (Daniel 10:19). God did not say to him: "O prophet greatly beloved" or "O servant of the Lord greatly beloved" but "O man...". The man is a man of God, a man in the Lord, and so there is great spiritual authority when he says: "I Daniel".

Naturally woman is included, for God is concerned with humanity. He plans to fulfil His will in human beings. Leaving aside our special reference to Jesus, whom we know as a human being PLUS, we glory in the fact that these servants of God were so essentially human. John was so human. Paul was so human. Daniel was a human being. Through His Son God makes something of Himself as a part of human life, and in doing so constitutes the testimony of Jesus.

God's great objective with you is not to make you a Bible teacher, a missionary, a Christian worker. These may emerge, according to the form which your life may take, but they will not be eternal. It is you as a man or a woman with whom God is taking such pains, He is more concerned with our humanity than with anything else. You will misunderstand His ways with you if you fail to recognise that. You will be tempted to worry about your reputation, your job, your function, while God is supremely concerned with the kind of man you will be in Christ. All else is of lesser importance. The great thing is for God to find His eternal satisfaction in glorified men and women - men in Christ.

From "Toward the Mark" September-October 1978.

I Phillip; In Christ: Phillip


 2007/7/12 20:01Profile


Have you read my posts ?

Katy, before all and with 84 pages of proof --- it has been you all along who [b]BEGAN [/b]the "bashing", pigeon-holing and Titling and name calling on this thread. I will continue to show your words until this thread dies, if you keep putting me into any other "group" and say that I've "Lied" anywhere on this entire thread.

Even in your last post to me, again, you are putting me into shades of some "cultism" again. That is what you started with me on page 25 when I first appealed for Unity between us all.

I've debated Greek scholars before Katy, but never have I seen anyone post as you do, with all your name calling and then say, that "you" have been the offended one here ?

I told you before, that is "craft" when you shift blame.

You again are going about to classifying and name calling and then your covering it all up with lies again, of your innocense and your "craft" that you use when you are exposed for these things.

[b]This whole thing has had nothing to do with the OSAS doctrine, but this has had everything to do with my initial pleas for unity on this Site. That's when your name calling started.[/b]

I just became a member of a OSAS Church Katy, which I've told you several times now, so your accusations are again groundless.

Yet, again you're name calling went on and continues even now with your last post to me above.

I am not connected to Ormly in any way except to not like seeing anyone here called as many names as you Began and have done on this thread.

Your post above is full of lies, yet you say I have lied about you. Again 84 pages of PROOF.

You have bashed me first and them Ormly with your "cultic" accusations repeatedly and excessively.
As I've said before, as long as you are classifying [u]any of us[/u] into cults, or lie, I will keep posting these to you. I gave you a chance to stop your cult-accusing some pages ago, but then you started again about David Wilkerson.
I posted your bash of Oswald Chambers earlier.

The proof is in these 84 pages and recorded in Heaven .... and having just listened to a good sermon at Back to the Bible just now, about "The fear of GOD is the beginning of wisdom" and reading T.A. Sparks, "Truth in the Inward Parts" again .... I would say according to two verses in Revelation, you are in deep trouble for lying once again for at least the fifth time in response to my appeals.

98% of my posts on here were first to make peace and try to keep the unity between ALL here and then after you spurned that, I came back on to stop your name calling Period.

You are the name caller / basher on this thread, that started with my mentioning of Unity around page 25 and now again you've just lied.

[u]Any[/u] "fellowship" would call you out on that.

 2007/7/12 22:41



I love you Dear, I will not continue to keep drudging up personal insults. I said I forgave you and that is that. I'm going to bed now. I have a long day ahead.

Good night Annie.

With Love in Christ Jesus

 2007/7/12 22:57


Proverbs 11:30
The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.

Isaiah 51:16
And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.

2 Corinthians 10:4
(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
Ephesians 6:

10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

On Verse 19, I will leave for you to look up yourself. What an eye opener as to WHY this is necessary! What was Paul called to do, as are we called to do the same thing!!

Good Night


 2007/7/12 23:15


You forgive me for what Katy ?

 2007/7/12 23:26

Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


Sister Katy-did wrote:

Do you know the word GRACE is never used in Matthew. Have you ever wondered why?

Matthew 5:

2 Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Grace abounds in these who have followed Him since Abel.

In Christ

Jeff Marshalek

 2007/7/13 1:33Profile

Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved??? Revisited


Katy-did wrote:
I'm done with these babe's with their hateful, prideful speak, who desire to stay silly babes while condemning others trying to learn what it means to seek God with all their heart of heresy.

Yes, trying to seek God with a heart of Heresy is a problem. Only God is pure, not we, so we cannot seek God with a Pure Heart. If you think by chance your heart is pure...WOW! That is why We have been given a NEW Heart. But those who hate that truth, believing their own heart is pure as they seek god, are condemning the doctrine and those who have that New heart.
While we are reviled THEY are:
trying to learn what it means to seek God with all their heart of heresy.

Love in Christ Jesus

PS Omley, I couldn't have said it better myself. I am so delighted it came out of your own mouth.


It didn't come out of Ormly's mouth...It came out of yours, and with obvious delight and gleefulness. But that is not what Ormly said.

Ormly's actual post is as follows, and you distorted it out of recognition.


Ormly wrote:

GrannieAnnie wrote:
Hey, Ormly got a Promotion now.

Instead of being grouped in with just Universalists, Mormons, Humanists, and a host of other cults, now he's just in that "bad" duet of David Wilkerson and Hannah Hurnard.

I'm glad you made it 'up' a few notches Orm.

Orm said: "Someone else will have to."

[b]For[/b] what Ormly ??? :-(

edit for emphasis.

I'm weary of it all, Annie. What with Katy Girl warning everyone about becoming shipwrecked while she calls out from where she sits in "Davey Jone's Locker" and now Ironman wanting to hash all this out again.... Not me Girl. If ya don't git it, too bad. I'm done with these babe's with their hateful, prideful speak, who desire to stay silly babes while condemning others, trying to learn what it means to seek God with all their heart, of heresy.

"Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, .."
Psalms 107:2 (KJV)

Too bad the OSAS crowd can be assured to say so. PITY.

"Let the unrighteous go on in unrighteousness; let the filthy go on being made filthy; let the righteous go on in righteousness; and let the holy go on being [b]made holy[/b].” Revelation 22:11 (HCSB)

If you would like to discuss the complete Gospel of Jesus Christ from the proper starting point, I'm your man otherwise I don't want to and won't participate in anymore silliness and willful ignorance with these people... and I don't care how much "love" and "humbleness" they have in their signature.

I have enjoyed your support and much thank you for it..:-)

Katy, there was a comma in the sentence you misread, misquoted, and mistyped. Please stick with the original.

I'm done with these babe's with their hateful, prideful speak, who desire to stay silly babes [u]while condemning others, trying to learn what it means to seek God with all their heart, of heresy.[/u]

It says only that 'I'm done with these these babes with hateful, prideful speech, who desire to stay silly babes while condemning others, (who are) trying to learn what it means to seek God with all their hearts, with heresy.

Ormly and everyone else here at SI are seeking God with all their hearts.

Condemning anyone lightly of positions they do not hold, and heresies that they do not embrace, is very dangerous, and reminds one of a time when if one disagreed with a 'Church' position, one got burned at the stake for it.

Ormly can be is done on purpose to bring out the true hearts of others, and their incompletely proved positions, so that he may present the full scriptures, or the opposing argument. Yes, he is often too impatient with those who do not know their Bibles inside and out, but he has been making a distinct effort to work with those who ask questions that are not in his view simplistic, and to rebut scripture quotes with other scriptures, and with a patience and persuasiveness not in his previous postings on other threads only weeks before you came to SI.

You may dislike the positions Ormly takes, and disdain Chambers, whom Ormly respects, and quotes, but Chambers says nothing that cannot be supported by scripture. Without a very good knowledge of your Bible, Chambers can sound misleading, but everything I have seen that Chambers has written can be supported by scripture, and Chambers is beloved by many on SI, including members of considerable experience, knowledge, and education.

Challenge Ormly for the supporting scriptures, if you cannot find them, or on anything you cannot understand, but read what he says, and what all of us say, carefully before you respond, and please do not characterize any member of SI as being part of any heresies just because you don't agree with them and their viewpoints.

This thread is about how the position of OSAS is deceptively incomplete. Not wrong. Incomplete.

I have gone to a great deal of trouble to keep everyone speaking on this thread discussing the doctrine from that viewpoint, and to keep their tempers in check, particularly since OSAS is a divisive teaching, and the incompleteness of the OSAS doctrine is the reason that I started this thread and have been bringing it back on point for many weeks.

But even I gasped when you alluded to Gnostiscm in Ormly's position.

Please stop throwing such words around, and make no personal aspersions on the characters of those you do not personally know, for you only know what they post...and if you do not read them carefully, and with a full and complete knowledge of the entire Bible, you will misinterpret much.

But regardless of what you may think someone has said, and whether or not someone is getting under your skin, please be aware that you are skewing the purpose and aim of this thread.

Please get back on topic, or start your own thread.



Note in Parentheses (who are) was added for clarity only.

Forrest Anderson

 2007/7/13 3:09Profile


"While I am still man-centered, I am merely ministering for God. But as I become truly God-centered, He is, through me, ministering to man."


 2007/7/13 6:32

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