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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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Reposted: Edited:
Omley, i need to go. Have a Nice day!!! :-)

Ormly said:
I'm done with these babe's with their hateful, prideful speak, who desire to stay silly babes while condemning others trying to learn what it means to seek God with all their heart of heresy.

Katy-did said:
Yes, trying to seek God with a heart of Heresy is a problem. Only God is pure, not we, so we cannot seek God with a Pure Heart. If you think by chance your heart is pure...WOW! That is why We have been given a NEW Heart. But those who hate that truth, believing their own heart is pure as they seek god, are condemning the doctrine and those who have that New heart.
While we are reviled THEY are:


trying to learn what it means to seek God with all their heart of heresy.

Love in Christ Jesus

PS Omley, I couldn't have said it better myself. I am so delighted it came out of your own mouth.

 2007/7/12 14:16

Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924


bro Ormly

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

You can say the same in the case of Balaam and Pharaoh, however, none of these examples have to do with God coming against man in regards to God desiring man or making man come to Him.

The issue when i mentioned Pharoah and Jonah was not about men coming to God, rather it had to do with God coming against the will of man. Now concerning men coming to God,what about Paul? Was he not on his way to see to the persecution and death of the saints of God? Did God not come against him on the Damascus road? Would Paul have come to God except for that experience, that confrontation? i can attest that except God apprehended me as He did, i would not have come to Him. Perhaps you have been imbued with something which allowed you to come to God without such a confrontation as some, i didn't receive such. perhaps my view would be different if i had.

As for the rest of your remarks --- sorry, I'm done, I'm wearied chasing these non-knowledge conclusions. Someone else will have to.

i guess i can't lose...if i have no knowledge then i am ripe for Christ to give me Knowledge for it is my endevour as God Gives Grace to know nothing, be nothing and do nothing apart from Christ.

If you would like to discuss the complete Gospel of Jesus Christ from the proper starting point, I'm your man otherwise I don't want to and won't participate in anymore silliness and willful ignorance with these people... and I don't care how much "love" and "humbleness" they have in their signature.

Isn't the beginning of the Gospel before the setting of the foundations of the earth? were we not called then before we could decide anything?

what of Revelation 14:
[b]And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, [/b]

If you want to talk about the Gospel from its is is of GOd so it is from Everlasting to Everlasting with its beginning and end in GOd. from before the setting of the foundations of the earth...curiously the word never says where the gospel will end...mmm...makes sense to me since God Himself has no end!
Grace and Peace be ours in Jesus' Name. AMEN

Farai Bamu

 2007/7/12 14:23Profile

Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924

 let the Redeemed of God...

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved from before the setting of the foundations of the Earth. AMEN.

i am redeemed of God bro Ormly. That scripture seems to imply a work which can only be done by God Himself...perhaps i am wrong.

if you feel any condemnation it is not because i am out to condemn you bro Ormly.The Mercy which God has shown me compels me not to condemn, how can i condemn when i have been shown such Mercy? This was your immediate assumption that others were condemning you, have you considered that maybe it is these testimonies which are indicting you for being wrong on this matter?

perhaps i am wrong and if so may God straighten me out lest i perish! could you make the same plea?

Grace and Peace be ours in Jesus' Name. AMEN.

Farai Bamu

 2007/7/12 14:38Profile

 Re: let the Redeemed of God...

For those who like Matthew Henry, lets look at what he says about our heart. Funny, he also referrs to Eze 36:26 as having been given a New Heart.

The New Heart:

Even the appearance of self-praise and courting human applause, is painful to the humble and spiritual mind. Nothing is more delightful to faithful ministers, or more to their praise, than the success of their ministry, as shown in the spirits and lives of those among whom they labour. The law of Christ was written in their hearts, and the love of Christ shed abroad there. Nor was it written in tables of stone, as the law of God given to Moses, but on the fleshy (not fleshly, as

fleshliness denotes sensuality) tables of the heart, Eze 36:26. Their hearts were humbled and softened to receive this impression, by the new-creating power of the Holy Spirit. He ascribes all the glory to God. And remember, as our whole dependence is upon the Lord, so the whole glory belongs to him alone. The letter killeth: the letter of the law is the ministration of death; and if we rest only in the letter of the gospel, we shall not be the better

for so doing: but the Holy Spirit gives life spiritual, and life eternal. The Old Testament dispensation was the ministration of death, but the New Testament of life. The law made known sin, and the wrath and curse of God; it showed us a God above us, and a God against us; but the gospel makes known grace, and Emmanuel, God with us. Therein the righteousness of God by faith is revealed; and this shows us that the just shall live by his faith; this makes known the grace and mercy of God through

Jesus Christ, for obtaining the forgiveness of sins and eternal life. The gospel so much exceeds the law in glory, that it eclipses the glory of the legal dispensation. But even the New Testament will be a killing letter, if shown as a mere system or form, and without dependence on God the Holy Spirit, to give it a quickening power. (2Co 3:12-18)

 2007/7/12 16:19

 Re: "strive"

..... just for one of the MANY words "like it".

Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there [b]few[/b] that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Luk 13:25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
Luk 13:26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
Luk 13:27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Luk 6:47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and [b]doeth 'them'[/b], I will show you to whom he is like:
Luk 6:48 He is like a man which built a house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
Luk 6:49 But he that heareth, and [b]doeth not[/b], is like a man that without a foundation built a house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Mat 7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and [b]narrow is the way[/b], which leadeth unto life, and [b]few[/b] there be that find it.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;[b] but he that DOETH the will of my Father which is in heaven. [/b]
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, [b]and doeth 'them'[/b], I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a Rock
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not; for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and [b]doeth 'them' not[/b], shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but "few" chosen.

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but "few" are chosen.


The whole of James 2.

The whole of 2 Tim. 2 where "strive" is three times which goes along with Titus 3:10.

Do we DARE to type in "Commandments" or "command" into our Bible searches.
Commandments is in there 32 times in the N.T., but here's just one.

1Jn 5:2 [b]By this we know that "we love the children of God", when we love God, and keep his commandments.[/b]

Or "Love", for another word .... Without which, one is cast away.

Just two of those ... 1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Just for a "few" - that's for Sure.

 2007/7/12 16:31


[/b][u][b][color=3333CC]1 John 4:9[/color][/b][/u]

[b][color=3333CC]In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.[/color]

[b][color=3333CC]10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.[/color]

 2007/7/12 17:11

 Re: Scripture NEVER cancels out Scripture.

Mat 5:13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savor, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Joh 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Joh 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Joh 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Act 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

1Th 3:8 For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.

1Th 4:2 For ye know what commandments we gave you by the Lord Jesus.

1Jn 2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

1Jn 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Rev 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 2007/7/12 17:36


Acts 3
1Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.

2And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;

3Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.

4And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.

5And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.

6Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.

7And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.

8And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.

9And all the people saw him walking and praising God:

10And they knew that it was he which sat for alms at the Beautiful gate of the temple: and they were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him.

11And as the lame man which was healed held Peter and John, all the people ran together unto them in the porch that is called Solomon's, greatly wondering.

[b][color=990000]12And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this? or why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk? [/color][/b]

13The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

14But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;

15And killed the Prince of life, whom God hath raised from the dead; whereof we are witnesses.

[b][color=990000]16And his name through faith in his name hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know: yea, the faith which is by him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all. [/color][/b]

 2007/7/12 18:15

 Re: Scripure NEVER cancels out Scripture.

Mat 18:6 "And whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble [#4624-to sin], it [would be] better for him that a millstone of a donkey be hanged on his neck, and he be drowned in the depth of the sea.

Mar 9:42 "And whoever causes one of the little [ones] believing [or, trusting] in Me to stumble [# 4624 - to sin], it is better for him if rather a millstone is hung around his neck, and he has been cast into the sea.

Luk 17:2 "It [would have been] better for him if a donkey millstone [i.e., a huge millstone turned by a donkey] [had been] put round about his neck, and he had been thrown into the sea, than that he should cause one of these little ones to stumble [ #4624 - to sin].

To “scandalize”; from G4625; to entrap, that is, trip up (figuratively stumble [transitively] or entice to sin, apostasy or displeasure): - (make to) offend.

Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

 2007/7/12 18:21

 Re: One last time.

Scripture NEVER cancels out Scripture.

You seem to think it does and I know what God would say to that.

I know what it says to me ... this is what Peter calls "wresting the Scripture".

If you say that "we" have nothing to do with being "faithful unto the end", nor that we need not "keep His commandments" nor have any freewill to choose to "abide in Him" nor make the effort to "examine ourselves" nor "overcometh", then you are only seeing HIS PART - Obviously and ripping our part out of your Bible - obviously.

You keep quoting Scripture that is TRUE yet seem to think that yours, cancels out all those that others have posted.

I asked you back on page ? for us to not beat each other with our Icons/Bibles, because I knew this is what happens with every Debate Forum out there.


I begged you to not do this very early on on this thread.

This can go on until the LORD comes back, I told you.

I told you that Great Men have debated this for all but 2000 years and who are you to think you know better or that you have MORE SCRIPTURE THAN THEY HAD.

You've left a trail of destruction here so far and you think you have Defended the Gospel ???

I told you from the beginning that this difference between us should never be a cause of division because of the AUTHORS ON THIS SITE don't agree on this Neither .... yet we love them all.

I'm done with your abuse of the Word of God.

We should not be out TO WIN here.

We post our opinions, I said a long time ago on this thread, and that's it.

The Scripture wars can go on, or people can use "their own words" again, but this will not end and brothers are being pit against brothers because of your persistance to drag many in and down.

I prefer to have unity with my brothers and sisters on this particular doctrine and have for all these years ......... you can proceed to try to divide and conquer all that you wish, but according to God's Word, to continue IS sin.


 2007/7/12 18:37

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