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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 God help us!

brethren

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we have been Saved.AMEN.

brethren, let us be sure that the point of our Salvation is not in this life and it never was. The point of our Salvation was from before the setting of the foundation of the earth see Romans 9. Christ was slain at this time also see Revelation 13 which says:

[b]8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.[/b]

Revelation 17 also says:

[b]. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.[/b]

Now when we come to Christ in this life, this is simply the manifestation of that which was from before the setting of the foundations of the earth, Determined Divinely by God in His own Mercy.If we read the letters of Paul we find that he oft makes mention by the Grace of God through Holy Spirit that we are [i][b]CALLED[/b][/i]of God. Paul even said that in Romans 9:

[b]16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.[/b]

Saints it seems to me that our view of Salvation is flawed, we think that Salvation is about us but it is not and never was. It is about God showing Mercy and Grace to us who all clearly, thoroughly and unquestionably deserve hell. As such, everything hinges on God showing Mercy. Those who are Saved are Saved from before the setting of the foundations of the earth, this is Election, the ultimate exercise of Divine Prerogative. If we were cast into hell, God's Righteousness would not be diminished because this would be God operating out of His Justice.

Dear saints do we really believe that we can come to God without Him intervening? Are we so blinded by pride?! GOd help us indeed. JOhn 6:65 tells us that no man can come to the Son (who by the way is the only Route to the Father) except the Father draw him. Dear saints this is the tragedy of our state in sin, except God quicken us, we remain lost because we are unable to realize we need Salvation let alone Free ourselves.

My dear brethren we must realize that EVERYTHING hinges on God. Nothing happens outside of His Knowledge for He is All-Knowing and indeed all Knowledge.Dear saints if we are unsure of the Complete Sovereignty of God, let us consider that even the works we are to do when we realize the Salvation which was from Of Old, have been prepared in advance for us to do and we are empowered by God the Holy Spirit to do them. Dear saints we can't do anything which pleases God except it procedes from His Throne! IT seems this bothers us because we feel as though our free will is violated or perhaps that what we have done is in vain and that is a bad feeling. We don't like the idea that someone else is in control of EVERY SINGLE DETAIL do we? i bless God that He is for without HIm surely we would all perish!

Someone said that God doesn't force us, tell that to Jonah...tell Pharoah that, tell Paul that when he was on the Damascus road and was blinded that God was not backing him into a corner to make him cry uncle and submit to God. God doesn't force? i think that view indicts us that we have a shallow view of God; because that is the way we would be if we were God because we think that's what people would like. Saints we are Blood Bought and are Slaves to GOd, we are do to as He says. Christ did indeed Save us from bondage to sin and now we are in Bondage to Him. We are indeed Sons of God, but tell me what Son doesn't work for his father with all diligence and obedience. Before the rewards are passed out, there is much work to be done yet.

Dear saints all is for the Glory of God! For the Revelation of His Manifold Wisdom to the princes of the air! It's all about Him, we are not Saved for ourselves or our own sakes! We are Saved for the Purpose for which all things exist and have been as they were,are as they are and shall be as they shall, The Glory of God the Father Forever and Ever. AMEN.

Grace and PEace be ours in Jesus' Name. AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/7/11 13:04Profile









 Re: God help us!

Quote:

IRONMAN wrote:
brethren

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we have been Saved.AMEN.

brethren, let us be sure that the point of our Salvation is not in this life and it never was. The point of our Salvation was from before the setting of the foundation of the earth see Romans 9. Christ was slain at this time also see Revelation 13 which says:

[b]8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.[/b]

Revelation 17 also says:

[b]. 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.[/b]

Now when we come to Christ in this life, this is simply the manifestation of that which was from before the setting of the foundations of the earth, Determined Divinely by God in His own Mercy.If we read the letters of Paul we find that he oft makes mention by the Grace of God through Holy Spirit that we are [i][b]CALLED[/b][/i]of God. Paul even said that in Romans 9:

[b]16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.[/b]

Saints it seems to me that our view of Salvation is flawed, we think that Salvation is about us but it is not and never was. It is about God ....."



Well, you started out great!

This is where I will leave you.

 2007/7/11 13:54
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

How has God dealt with sin? Through one man Adam. How has go dealt with salvation? Through one man Jesus Christ. God saves an individual by, through, for, Jesus Christ.

How can man say he has anything to do with his own salvation, salvation is for one purpose and one purpose only, that God by His own purpose might make something out of nothing. I was nothing and am still nothing without Jesus Christ in me. I will be nothing without Jesus Christ and can do nothing without Christ in me the Hope of Glory.

Ephesians 1:1-6 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

How can anyone read this without understanding what is being said? Without the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ in you. Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Just exactly what is being born again? Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His. What is the Spirit of Christ? Seed of the Father which no man has seen.

1Pe 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, [as] silver and gold, from your vain conversation [received] by tradition from your fathers;

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Who is the Word of God? The Seed Incorruptable.

Man can do nothing to acquire salvation or maintain salvation. Only By the Christ in him can he obey. God cannot and will not give man the reign over his own soul and body unto obedience, "you would not". Obedience come by the Christ that is in us. Who was, is, and will be the only One that was and is obedient? So how are we obedient? Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Rom 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Rom 16:19 For your obedience is come abroad unto all [men]. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

Rom 16:26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Only by the obedience of one Man, Jesus Christ are any made righteous. Obedience comes only by One Man, Jesus Christ. But Paul wants us understand and be wise, (not obedient), that only comes by God to man through Jesus Christ, "I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil."

I have not obeyed, I cannot obey, I will not obey. The Christ in me by God the Father has quickened me, to be able to obey, and He "will cleanse me from all unrighteousness", Not by what I do, but by what the Christ in me causes me to do by the power of His Resurrection, through The Grace of God by the Faith of Jesus Christ that is in me. Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

2Ti 2:9 Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, [even] unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

2Ti 2:11 [It is] a faithful saying: For if we be dead with [him], we shall also live with [him]:

2Ti 2:12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with [him]: if we deny [him], he also will deny us:

2Ti 2:13 If we believe not, [yet] he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Even if we believe not and are not in obedience and were once Born Again, He that is in us "cannot deny Himself" that was birthed in us. He will remain faithful and we are still saved "even as by fire". We won't benefit from the salvation we have received and when we get to heaven we will have to start at the beginning. But salvation is secure in "Faithful Jesus Christ" who "cannot deny Himself".

In Christ and obeying by His obedience that is in me, the only obedience God can accept: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/7/11 14:54Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
Man can do nothing to acquire salvation or maintain salvation. Only By the Christ in him can he obey. God cannot and will not give man the reign over his own soul and body unto obedience, "you would not". Obedience come by the Christ that is in us. Who was, is, and will be the only One that was and is obedient? So how are we obedient? Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Phillip



In light of your post please handle this verse, Phillip: "Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth ......" 1 Peter 1:22 (KJV)

:-)

 2007/7/11 15:09









 Re: Once Saved Always Saved???


Hi Ormly,

Chin up, brother. Things could be worse. ;-)

 2007/7/11 15:21









 Re:

Quote:

dorcas wrote:

Hi Ormly,

Chin up, brother. Things could be worse. ;-)



I am quite secure, my sister.

 2007/7/11 15:25
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

i read this last night. tell me what you guys think of it.

1 john 5:18 "we know that whoever is born of God does not sin: but he who has been born of God keeps (guards) himself, and the wicked one does not touch him.

doesn't this verse say what everyone here is trying to say.

"whoever is born of God does not sin" this is the same as 1 john 3:6-10. they do not live in a continual pattern of sin. they have His seed remaining in us.

"but he who has been born of God keeps himself" we walk in the Spirit and trust in Jesus to do in us what He desires for us. we ,through His Spirit, keep ourselves in Him.

"and the wicked one does not touch him"
why does the wicked one not touch him?? because he is hidden in the Good Shepherd. the Good Shepherd will guard and protect his true sheep.

the world is under the sway of the wicked one(v19), but the true sheep of God will not be touched. why? because they are born of God and they keep themselves. His seed remains in them.

tell me what you guys think about this verse..

 2007/7/11 15:32Profile









 Re:

What can be added to that?? It says everything.

Question is, do you understand it?

 2007/7/11 15:35
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

Quote:

Ormly wrote:
What can be added to that?? It says everything.

Question is, do you understand it?


i like to think so. i pray that the Lord will continue to teach me this in experience and not just in thought.. :-)

 2007/7/11 17:04Profile









 Re:1 John 5:18

By Adam Clarke:

"Keepeth himself - That is, in the love of God, Jude 1:21, by building up himself on his most holy faith, and praying in the Holy Ghost; and that wicked one - the devil, toucheth him not - finds nothing of his own nature in him on which he can work, Christ dwelling in his heart by faith."


By Albert Barnes:

"Keepeth himself - It is not said that he does it by his own strength, but he will put forth his best efforts to keep himself from sin, and by divine assistance he will be able to accomplish it. Compare the 1Jo_3:3 note; Jud_1:21 note."


By John Wesley:

1Jn 5:18 - Yet this gives us no encouragement to sin: on the contrary, it is an indisputable truth, he that is born of God - That sees and loves God. Sinneth not - So long as that loving faith abides in him, he neither speaks nor does anything which God hath forbidden. He keepeth himself - Watching unto prayer. And, while he does this, the wicked one toucheth him not - So as to hurt him.


By Mathew Henry:

1Jn 5:18-21 -
Here we have,
I. A recapitulation of the privileges and advantages of sound Christian believers. 1. They are secured against sin, against the fulness of its dominion or the fulness of its guilt: We know that whosoever is born of God (and the believer in Christ is born of God, 1Jo_5:1) sinneth not (1Jo_5:18), sinneth not with that fulness of heart and spirit that the unregenerate do (as was said 1Jo_3:6, 1Jo_3:9), and consequently not with that fulness of guilt that attends the sins of others; and so he is secured against that sin which is unavoidably unto death, or which infallibly binds the sinner over unto the wages of eternal death; the new nature, and the inhabitation of the divine Spirit thereby, prevent the admission of such unpardonable sin. 2. They are fortified against the devil's destructive attempts: He that is begotten of God keepeth himself, that is, is enabled to guard himself, and the wicked one toucheth him not (1Jo_5:18), that is, that the wicked one may not touch him, namely, to death. It seems not to be barely a narration of the duty or the practice of the regenerate; but an indication of their power by virtue of their regeneration. They are thereby prepared and principled against the fatal touches, the sting, of the wicked one; he touches not their souls, to infuse his venom there a he does in others, or to expel that regenerative principle which is an antidote to his poison, or to induce them to that sin which by the gospel constitution conveys an indissoluble obligation to eternal death. He may prevail too far with them, to draw them to some acts of sin; but it seems to be the design of the apostle to assert that their regeneration secures them from such assaults of the devil as will bring them into the same case and actual condemnation with the devil. 3. they are on God's side and interest, in opposition to the state of the world: And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness, 1Jo_5:19. Mankind are divided into two great parties of dominions, that which belongs to God and that which belongs to wickedness or to the wicked one. The Christian believers belong to God. They are of God, and from him, and to him, and for him. They succeed into the right and room of the ancient Israel of God, of whom it is said, The Lord's people is his portion, his estate in this world; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance, the dividend that has fallen to him by the lot of his own determination (Deu_32:9); while, on the contrary, the whole world, the rest, being by far the major part, lieth in wickedness, in the jaws in the bowels of the wicked one. There are, indeed, were we to consider the individuals, many wicked ones, many wicked spirits, in the heavenly or the ethereal places; but they are united in wicked nature, policy, and principle, and they are united also in one head. there is the prince of the devils and of the diabolical kingdom. There is a head of the malignity and of the malignant world; and he has such sway here that he is called the god of this world. Strange that such a knowing spirit should be so implacably incensed against the Almighty and all his interests, when he cannot but know that it must end in his own overthrow and everlasting damnation! How tremendous is the judgment of God upon that wicked one! May the God of the Christian world continually demolish his dominion in this world, and translate souls into the kingdom of his dear Son! 4. They are enlightened in the knowledge of the true eternal God: “And we know that the Son of God has come, and has given as an understanding, that we may know him that is true, 1Jo_5:20. The Son of God has come into our world, and we have seen him, and know him by all the evidence that has already been asserted; he has revealed unto us the true God (as Joh_1:18), and he has opened our minds too to understand that revelation, given us an internal light in our understandings, whereby we may discern the glories of the true God; and we are assured that it is the true God that he hath discovered to us. He is infinitely superior in purity, power, and perfection, to all the gods of the Gentiles. He has all the excellences, beauties, and riches, of the living and true God. It is the same God that, according to Moses's account, made the heavens and the earth, the same who took our fathers and patriarchs into peculiar covenant with himself, the same who brought our ancestors out of Egypt, who gave us the fiery law upon mount Sinai, who gave us his holy oracles, promised the call and conversion of the Gentiles. By his counsels and works, by his love and grace, by his terrors and judgments, we know that he, and he alone, in the fulness of his being, is the living and true God.” It is a great happiness to know the true God, to know him in Christ; it is eternal lie, Joh_17:3. It is the glory of the Christian revelation that it gives the best account of the true God, and administers the best eye-salve for our discerning the living and true God. 5. They have a happy union with God and his Son: “And we are in him that is true, even (or and) in his Son Jesus Christ, 1Jo_5:20. The Son leads us to the Father, and we are in both, in the love and favour of both, in covenant and federal alliance with both, in spiritual conjunction with both by the inhabitation and operation of their Spirit: and, that you may know how great a dignity and felicity this is, you must remember that this true one is the true God and eternal life” or rather (as it should seem a more natural construction), “This same Son of God is himself also the true God and eternal life” (Joh_1:1, and here, 1Jo_1:2), “so that in union with either, much more with both, we are united to the true God and eternal life.” Then we have,
II. The apostle's concluding monition: “Little children” (dear children, as it has been interpreted), “keep yourselves from idols, 1Jo_5:21. Since you know the true God, and are in him, let your light and love guard you against all that is advanced in opposition to him, or competition with him. Flee from the false gods of the heathen world. They are not comparable to the God whose you are and whom you serve. Adore not your God by statues and images, which share in his worship. Your God is an incomprehensible Spirit, and is disgraced by such sordid representations. Hold no communion with your heathen neighbours in their idolatrous worship. Your God is jealous, and would have you come out, and be separated from among them; mortify the flesh, and be crucified to the world, that they may not usurp the throne of dominion in the heart, which is due only to God. The God whom you have known is he who made you, who redeemed you by his Son, who has sent his gospel to you, who has pardoned your sins, begotten you unto himself by his Spirit, and given you eternal life. Cleave to him in faith, and love, and constant obedience, in opposition to all things that would alienate your mind and heart from God. To this living and true God be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.”

 2007/7/11 17:20





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