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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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 Re:

Quote:
What God does not guarantee any of us is that in the face of continuous disobedience, and lack of fruit, which is conformity to Christ's image, that God will not chop us down, and feed us to the fire.



How sad we don't know John 17, and that there is no such reference to this at all in Jesus Prayer for those who are His. That prayer, His last will and Testament, testifying before God and His own the promises of His Surety, sealed in His own Blood,.....God Can not lie. We live by faith in His Truth that what HE has begun, HE will finish.

He assures our forgivness of Sin...Justification
He assures our Sanctification
He assures our Glorification

All 3 perfect 7's, as apposed to those who want to justify themselves..6
Sanctify themselves....6
Glorify themselves.....6

Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-did

 2007/7/11 7:19
JesusIsMyLrd
Member



Joined: 2005/10/28
Posts: 119
Iowa, USA

 Re:

"WHO'S IN CHARGE HERE????" :-P (a quote from an old(?) movie, when chaos is reigning in a room, and one guy comes in and shouts this...)

"This is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friends! Some people started reading it not knowing what it was, and they'll continue reading it forever just because... (EVERYBODY!) This is the thread that never ends...!!!!! (i hate that song) :-) ugh. That annoying little kids show on PBS...


Katy-did said,

Quote:
How sad we don't know John 17, and that there is no such reference to this at all in Jesus Prayer for those who are His. That prayer, His last will and Testament, testifying before God and His own the promises of His Surety, sealed in His own Blood,.....God Can not lie. We live by faith in His Truth that what HE has begun, HE will finish. He assures our forgivness of Sin...Justification He assures our Sanctification He assures our Glorification All 3 perfect 7's, as apposed to those who want to justify themselves..6 Sanctify themselves....6 Glorify themselves.....6



Katy, you somewhat skipped over the other text, from John 15, and brought in this about John 17. Now, i'm very blessed by what you said there, about how we have assurance. We do have it, Praise God! But if you would take another look at the scripture in John 15, i think it would give you a better idea of Jesus' context when He said all those things.

And yes, what He has done, HE will finish. But God does not force us into anything. He is a gentleman. Unlike that hard task master, satan, that we used to serve, He is just, and gives us free will- to be either under His leading, or our own.

Keep in mind that there would not be any instructions about keeping ourselves unspotted from the world, keeping ourselves from idols, taking up our cross daily, grabbing the plough and not looking back, Hebrews 6 (which i am still convinced, as the early church believers were who walked with the disciples, that it is speaking about born-again believers walking away), the ability to still sin, the possibility of our names being blotted out of the book of life (for how could they be blotted out if they were not in there in the first place), and a multitude of other things and the like, if there was not the possibility of us falling away- walking away.

Now, i believe that it is very hard for one to walk away. You don't just meet JESUS and not be affected. But we see in scripture the warnings about it, and we feel the tug of the world, and the flesh, and the devil, and must resist (by the Spirit of God) those things, or else we will be sucked into them, carried away by our own lusts, and when sin hath concieved, it bringeth forth death. And if we are in the world, flesh and devil, what is to keep us from accepting the same judgement as they... nothing, lest we repent.

John 17... This is not his last will, as it appears to me in scripture. His last will to the disiples was "Ye shall recieve power... and be witnesses unto me." THAT'S the will of Jesus, brothers and sisters. Preaching the Gospel!!!!!!!!!!

God bless you all. It's time to go to work for me. Hope ya'll have a blessed day in Jesus! Live by HIM!

In Christ,
-nathan


_________________
Nathan

 2007/7/11 8:05Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved??? Revisited

Quote:

Katy-did wrote:
Quote:
What God does not guarantee any of us is that in the face of continuous disobedience, and lack of fruit, which is conformity to Christ's image, that God will not chop us down, and feed us to the fire.



How sad we don't know John 17, and that there is no such reference to this at all in Jesus Prayer for those who are His. That prayer, His last will and Testament, testifying before God and His own the promises of His Surety, sealed in His own Blood,.....God Can not lie. We live by faith in His Truth that what HE has begun, HE will finish.

He assures our forgivness of Sin...Justification
He assures our Sanctification
He assures our Glorification

All 3 perfect 7's, as apposed to those who want to justify themselves..6
Sanctify themselves....6
Glorify themselves.....6

Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-did




[color=993300]Romans 13

1. Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
2. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
3. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
4. For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
5. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.
6. For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
7. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.
8. Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
11. And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.
12. The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
13. Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying.
14. But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.


Mathew 16:24. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

[/color]

Obedience to Jesus is still required of us...we cannot die to self any other way except to grit our teeth, and choose to obey yet one more time, and thus keep dying to self.

God cannot do this to us, or for us. He can help in all the ways He does: He loves us, He chastises us, He carries us when we are too tired to walk ourselves, but we must continually refuse the bad, and choose the good.

The evil one tempts us to disobey. The Holy Spirit waits to see what we will do, and if we disobey, the Holy Spirit will convict us of falling back into our old bad habit, our sin nature, our 'old man'.

And then He waits to see what we will do.

The only thing that God will not do for us is force our obedience, for it would be to deny our essential free will to choose to die to self from our love of Jesus, and our desire to be with Jesus one day.

God gives everything to us, and does everything for us, EXCEPT do our obeying for us.

We must do our own obedience and dying to self.

WE must die to our desires, hopes, and dreams, and take God's desires, hopes, and dreams for us in their place.

That is the cross we have to lift up every day.

We must face our weaknesses, and the temptations of the evil one that God allows, act on our faith, and choose to obey God, to please God with our obedience.

Each act of obedience strengthens our faith, and enables us to face the next test of that faith, with all the experience we have with the Holy Spirit working in us, that we will again gladly say "Yes!" to Christ, and do what He wishes, and not what we would prefer.

And the more we obey, the less there is of us still aware of the sin nature in that flesh we call 'dead', but what is left still clamors loudly for our attention.

But WE do the obeying, not God, nor even God in us.

If He did, dying to self would be easy. And it's not.


Blessings,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/7/11 8:27Profile









 Re:

N

Quote:
John 17... This is not his last will, as it appears to me in scripture. His last will to the disiples was "Ye shall recieve power... and be witnesses unto me." THAT'S the will of Jesus, brothers and sisters. Preaching the Gospel!!!!!!!!!!



Nathan, I can appreciate what you said here. However that too in in John 17, "Those who believe on me through their word"....

It is in the heart of every Believer to witness of this so great salvation. Jesus said, you will be witnesses unto me. What we witness to is the Uncorruptable Good News...and we suffer for doing so! A witness thlls the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. This is all of what Paul, Peter, Jude, John said, you will be persecuted for ME.


If those would re-read the parable’s of the soils and also where Jesus EXPLAINS the parable of the soil......only the LAST one bears fruit. Some 30, some 70 and some 100. All the previous were those who made a false profession to begin with.

They are offended by persecution
They are corrupted by things of this world etc, etc. This is not the evidence of Christ In You and YOU In Him. They began with you, and departed so that THEY may be made manifest (to who...not to God, but to us) that they were never of us to begin with. We're not to come unglued by seeing this.

The GOOD Ground is Christ in You, and the seed is God's WORD, (sanctify them in thy truth, THY WORD IS TRUTH) Those who abide in Christ abide in His truth. John 17.

No where in the last soil are any taken out and burned... If you say WE are the good ground, that is not what scripture teaches...."ALL have sinned and come short of the Glory of God"....

Many think All the soils refer to everyone being saved, and then the first three losing their salvation. That is not what this scripture is teaching.

And the fruit of the Spirit is: The essence of Christ in you is…

Love Joy, Peace, longsuffering, gentleness, kindness, against such there is no law,
AND THOSE WHO HAVE crucified the flesh ARE …..! That’s a statement of fact.

With Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-did


:-)

 2007/7/11 8:43









 Re:

Quote:
Obedience to Jesus is still required of us...we cannot die to self any other way except to grit our teeth, and choose to obey yet one more time, and thus keep dying to self.



Again Forrest, you are assuming we are not obedient to the Lord. Are you talking about those other soils who made false professions?

We bear fruit 30-70-100.

Love in Christ
Katy-did ;-)

 2007/7/11 8:51









 Re:

1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Revelation 19:13
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Do you know who this is?


Paul said in Philippians, not only to believe on Him but to Suffer for His sake. These are the True Saints that are manifest to those who are without Christ. (a sweet savior of life to those who have life and a stench in the nostrals to those who are dead, without Christ)

Thessalonians also says, When Jesus Comes, He will be Glorified IN HIS SAINTS.

Wow, that manifestation will not be so much fun to those who have rejected the love of the Gospel that they might be saved....who chose to believe lies instead, trying to save themselves, and following all guru's telling you how to save yourself. You have rejected Jesus Christ, called the Blood of the Covenant an unholy thing, and have INSULTED the Spirit of Grace. Not a good thing to do! Look at both Thessalonians and Hebrews concerning this....it brings the vengence of God.

Because Hebrews is talking about rejecting the Gospel...as does Thessalonians.

Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-did

 2007/7/11 9:11









 Re:


How many here can produce this in and of themselves. Impossible, absolutely impossible. You either Have Him, or you don't. When You do, the evidence of HIS LIFE IN YOU will be manifest.

Fact, not fiction. His work, not ours.

2 Corinthians 4:9-11


9Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;

10Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

11For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.




 2007/7/11 9:24









 Re:

Quote:

Katy-did wrote:

How many here can produce this in and of themselves. Impossible, absolutely impossible. You either Have Him, or you don't. When You do, the evidence of HIS LIFE IN YOU will be manifest.

Fact, not fiction. His work, not ours.

2 Corinthians 4:9-11


9Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed;

10Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

11For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.



Who here can say that they see His life in the presentation of your words about Him?

 2007/7/11 9:47









 Re: Once Saved Always Saved ???

Ormly asked

Quote:
Who here can say that they see His life in the presentation of your words about Him?

Me.

 2007/7/11 11:39









 Re:

well, misery loves company.

 2007/7/11 11:48





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