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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US


brother julian,

why are we so afraid to give assurance of salvation to people who have remained faithful to Christ?? Jesus wasn't afraid and neither was paul, but we are. why??

we make people feel like how jehovah witnesses feel. like they can't know if they will make it or if God will accept them until they die (that's how jw's feel). that is foreign to the NT. the scripture speaks very much of assurance and how we can know if we've been born again.

 2007/7/9 18:00Profile

Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3374


Lord have Mercy the way the scriptures are being slung around here at each other, this has become a knock down drag out battle of Gods Word, I am sure Jesus "must" be crying over this thread by now.

Well carry on what's this round 6? I think it is if I am counting correctly, thank God I know I am Saved and always Saved, because if I had to depend on rather I was or not by reading this thread I would be so confused I might wonder if getting Saved in the first place was really worth it. :-)


 2007/7/9 18:04Profile



Christinyou wrote:
What is your interpretation?

To begin with you need to get off on the right foot.

You speak of a reality as being an actuality.

The Birth of Jesus as Divine was an actuality [actual seed] while ours is of reality [by faith we believe] --- yet to become an actuality. Is our success in this a foregone conclusion? ---- only in the Mind of God. That is what makes OUR faith and steadfastness in the matter so important. Our ONLY work is to maintain our faith in Christ Jesus that Paul's words in Gal 2.20 KJV only, be made effective.

The Holy Spirit has places the Christ Seed in the believer. That Seed is Incorruptable, and takes the place of the corruptible.

By faith, the Holy Spirit places the Life of Christ within us that begins our new birth in Christ--- and I believe that is by God's own choosing and not to be confused with any emotional experience spoken of, though it may very well be one. :-)
We are to nurture Him to our becoming a son as He was. A process , to be sure. His does not automatically replace our old life any more than He replaced Satan. We are given to overcome our flesh with His Life that we, in Spirit and in truth, be ONE in Him as He is in the Father. See John 17.

We are free from sin, that is the sin of Adam and Eve. That sin cannot be held ever again to the believer's charge.

That IS true! However, I believe I would view it as being free from penalty of Adam's transgression which is alienation from God's presence both in life and in death. That's why Paul could say with assurance that "to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord". No longer do we, upon our death, have to go to paradise. That is also why we now can have direct fellowship with God as we live in Christ. Absent from living in the flesh means we must being in the Spirit and we shouldn't be quenching it. Make sense? Intimacy with the Father is for us, if we seek with all our heart. We do enjoy an advocate with the Father, don't we? On the othe hand we are to seated with Him. With such a limited view of the gospel, can we say we are, without presumption?

Christ's death on the Cross was the sole and total sacrifice that takes away the sin of the world.

Amen! I believe that and have entered into God's program of learning His Character. The program is often called, "The Way of the Cross"

That is why we have been redeemed AND born again.. That is the reason Christ came to earth --- that we would learn the way of the Cross, as Adam was to learn it, the principle of it being from before the foundation of the world. Jesus was our human example, because Adam failed, that we must follow. In the Gospels, He only did what He saw His Father doing and now, because of our new birth, it is for us to follow His lead. He knew the Father, so must we.

Can we commit sin? If our love to the Father is diminished in anyway, of course. Love, with all our heart, soul, mind and strength is the bond. Faith IN Christ sufficient that we live by His Faith will keep the saint. If one wishes to know how the perservance of the saints happens, that's how. Gal 2.20 KJV rendering.

Indeed, one cannot sin if Christ Jesus rules and reigns in ones life. He won't want to.

Nough said unless you have a question.

Thanks for not blowing hard back at me for my terse response. My frustration is knowing that all this elementary stuff concerning redemption should be behind everyone serious about Jesus Christ. The fact that it isn't speaks volumes about the condition of most churches who "preach" their "gospel"..

 2007/7/9 18:14



JulianSims wrote:

The total of all that has been said, your cannot loose your salvation

Yes you most certainly can! It's called, Backsliding and it's in your Bible. Say someone has been saved for 30 years and low and behold there not anymore for some reason because they were never saved ??? What a lie from the pit of hell! "Once Saved Always Saved" is a false doctrine just like that of the Mormons and the Jehovah Witness are of which i've talked to both for many years now. So everyone can come at me with your scripture's - just like the Mormons do and the Jehovah Witness do.

Brother Julian

Easy Bro. Some here aren't as you say. Your reasoning will be a help to those sincere. You will find out soon enough who isn't. :-)

 2007/7/9 18:20

Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3374


By the way "for the record" this is my real thoughts, my opinion is that the typical person who believes that one can lose one's salvation bases his/her opinion on logic rather than Bible.

It seems human logic can support either view, and is not the key to finding truth. This topic has caused far too much friction on this thread. My only hope is that people who disagree here with each other can learn to live harmoniously with their eyes on Jesus.
Lord have Mercy on this Thread
Mr. Bill


 2007/7/9 18:24Profile

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710



We are getting close. Two little words, actuallity and reality.

Thank you for aswering in cordial manner.

You have a great mind that is the Mind of Christ and someday we will all be of one mind in Him.

In Christ: Phillip


 2007/7/9 19:09Profile



Christinyou wrote:

We are getting close. Two little words, actuallity and reality.

Thank you for aswering in cordial manner.

You have a great mind that is the Mind of Christ and someday we will all be of one mind in Him.

In Christ: Phillip

Thank you Phillip. They are kind "heavy duty" words, however, I am not there. I want what you believe I have. I am striving for that kind of sensitivity. After many years, I finally know what direction to go in and will continue in it, always open to be rectified by folks traveling the same road, who see things I don't see and may benefit from what I see. -- :-D



 2007/7/9 19:37

 Revelation chapter 7 destroys man-centered Election

It's really simple...

Read this passage.

Rev 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.
Rev 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed a hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Rev 7:5 Of the tribe of Judah were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Naphtali were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:8 Of the tribe of Zebulun were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

First, notice that you have 144,000 souls that are not yet saved. Yet, they will be saved. Because God has spoken it. It will come to pass and by no means fail. Not only that but, to be more specific. you have the exact same "even number" out of each of the 12 tribes.(12,000 souls per tribe, no more and no less)

Now, these will be saved in the worst of times the world will ever experience. Talk about trials and temptations. It's going to be very hard to be christian in those days!

Yet, how is it that not 1 soul is lost of the 144,000 and not 1 soul will be lost of each of the 12,000 in the tribes. Was it their own might and stregth that kept them saved, or was it God's. Some might say it was both. You may say, "well... they all cooperated with God and agreed to remain saved." They all just happened to cooperate with the sovereign LORD? You then have to limit the soveriegnty of God to man's freewill. In other words, God can only do what man will let Him (regarding salvation). Also, in other words, the filthy freewill of man is more powerful than the holy grace of God. This exalts man above God. Mormons, Catholics, and cults alike... love this doctrine that exalts the freewill of man above the soveriegnty of God. Come out from among them and be not a partaker of their deeds.

It must also be noted, How does one know if he is elect or has the seal of God. Well, you could read 1 john or you could take this simple passage.

Eze 9:4 And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.
Eze 9:5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
Eze 9:6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

Godly sorrow is a mark of true salvation and election.

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

These numbers in Revelation chapter 7 are clear and exact. no man and no devil can alter them. They are the elect of God and they will endure to the end.

Now, some may say that it doesn't apply to us... it only applies to Isreal in the Tribulation. So, you would be saying, They are elect (not according to their works) but, we remain elected (because of our works). Can't you see these are 2 different ways of salvation? One is of man and the other is of God. One gives glory to man and the other gives all the glory to God. One is man-centered and the other is God-centered. One is motivated by self-preservation (from the flesh) and the other is motivated by self-denail (from the Spirit)

God bless you! -Abraham

(I edited it for minor spell checks)

 2007/7/9 21:12

Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved??? Revisited


Katy-did wrote:
We don't yield our old nature, but our New Nature. Romans 12:1$2 also parallels this.

Present yourselves a LIVING sacricife, Holy and acceptable....

Romans 6:

15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Edit: Bold print for emphasis only.

Katy, Katy!!!

You are almost to what I'm trying to say, however badly I am saying it.

I am talking about obedience, about dying to self being the portion we give to Jesus, to be conformed to His image!

To teach anyone that they are elect and saved, without teaching the Dying to Self part is incomplete, and therefore so misleading as to be used by the devil!

That is all that I am saying.

Jesus died for us.

We have to die to ourselves.

That is our obedience. Not a work.



Dying to self.

Being conformed to Christ's image, by grace, by the Holy Spirit.

Please see that I understand you.

I merely ask that the whole be taught, and not a tag line that is misleading.

No more, no less.



Forrest Anderson

 2007/7/9 21:15Profile


Dear Forrest,

I know exactly what you are saying. From the first I came on here I have been stressing the Cross, Romans 6, Galatians 2:20 & 21, Philippians 3 Romans 12:1&2....

So many just look at it and say, Jesus died for me, others feeling they are elect seem to bypass the cross all together....why bother, it's a done deal...,(I know those people too,they don't like me either).

I do know what you are saying.

We must remember Paul said..."The Blood of the Cross". We can never separate the Cross from the Blood of Jesus Christ. A bloodless cross is no gospel at all. Many preach the blood with no cross, and many preach the cross with no blood. Both are false Gospels. Because there are so many look alikes, if you really don't know the Word of God it is easy to be deceived.

Ist John says, The Spirit, the Blood and the Water, and these are ONE. The Water is the Word, We have been washed in the water of the Word. A clean conscience before God, and Hebrews says our conscience has been purged by the Blood of Christ, and the Spirit is the Life of the Word, living and powerful and sharper than a two edge sword. Jesus said MY WORDS are Spirit and they are Life...renewing the mind. One must be able to see all of these working together as one, Just as Father Son and Holy Spirit. You can't separate them.

The Preaching of the Cross (remember what I said above: Blood and our identification in His death and resurrection life) is to those who parish foolishness, but to us who are saved it is the POWER of God. You have *entered in*, and can come Boldly to the Throne of Grace to find help and mercy in time of need...Right to Our Father Himself. We worship God, through His Son in the Power of the Holy Spirit.

God Bless you Forrest,

With Love in Christ Jesus

 2007/7/9 22:18

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