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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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 Re:

Quote:

ALIVEINCHRIS wrote:
Hello.

I came across this site by accident or perhaps not? In reading many opinions offered up, I was taken back at one thing I found missing in many of your postings. We do not sanctify ourselves, as that is the gift of the life of Christ in you.

Self sanctification is the most dangerous doctrine to the health and well being of a Christian. Those who have failed under this teaching know we can do nothing in and of ourselves. This is the Lords work and His alone.


Sermon Index has an excellent article here by Andrew Murray directly on the opening page of this network. Please take this under consideration.

The law of the Spirit of Life in Christ


The Liberty of the Spirit
By Andrew Murray

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and death. If by the Spirit ye make to die the deeds of the body, ye shall live.'-Rom. 8: 2:13 In the sixth chapter Paul had spoken (vers. 18, 22) of our having been made f ...read more

I am Alive In Christ
Larry



Hello,

Perhaps might you like to try to reconcile this passage with your thinking?

"Now that by obedience to the truth [b]you[/b] have purified [b]your[/b] lives for a brotherly love without hypocrisy, [b]you must[/b] love one another from [b]your[/b] hearts, fervently".
1 Peter 1:22

Orm

 2007/7/6 9:42
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:


The Liberty of the Spirit
By Andrew Murray

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and death. If by the Spirit ye make to die the deeds of the body, ye shall live.'-Rom. 8: 2:13 In the sixth chapter Paul had spoken (vers. 18, 22) of our having been made f ...read more

andrew murray has some good stuff huh larry?? i enjoy reading some of his writings.. anyways, thanks for posting and welcome here..



 2007/7/6 9:51Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

1 Peter 1:10-25 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. (((((Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:)))))) (already done) Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Taking the whole Gospel :22 is speaking of what the life of Christ has done in the believer. Not what the believer has done to get there or stay there.

It is Christ in us that is our life and our keeping. Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? [shall] tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Hbr 7:26 For such an high priest became us, [who is] holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/7/6 10:31Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3371
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

Ormly wrote:
The Father doesn't change, there is no variableness in Him ....."
James 1:16-17

You want answers? I'm giving some. The question now becomes: Are teachable?....and do you really want answers?

So far you have only shown a propensity to distort God's word.




Well, I am just using my good old common sense here answer me this,if God is omniscient then the future is an open book to this being, or power. God knows what has happened, is happening, and will happen.

However, if God is omnipotent then anything is possible. God can do whatever pleases the divine will. So God can’t know what is going to happen in the future if God has the power to change the future. So can God be both omniscient and omnipotent? I don't think so but you probably do, so basically God can change anything if he wants in my books.


_________________
Bill

 2007/7/6 10:52Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:


dear phillip,

thanks for the scriptures phillip. such passages are nice to dwell upon the many blessings and benefits that the Lord has bestowed upon us.

once again, thanks.

 2007/7/6 11:07Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

ALIVEINCHRIST wrote:

Quote:
I came across this site by accident or perhaps not? In reading many opinions offered up, I was taken back at one thing I found missing in many of your postings. We do not sanctify ourselves, as that is the gift of the life of Christ in you.



According tReturn to main page for Romans 8


Rom 8:13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
o Scripture...

It is our charge to listen and obey the Spirit, if we obey the Spirit we will put to death the deeds of the body...

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/7/6 12:39Profile









 Re:

Quote:

MrBillPro wrote:
Quote:

Ormly wrote:
The Father doesn't change, there is no variableness in Him ....."
James 1:16-17

You want answers? I'm giving some. The question now becomes: Are teachable?....and do you really want answers?

So far you have only shown a propensity to distort God's word.




Well, I am just using my good old common sense here answer me this,if God is omniscient then the future is an open book to this being, or power. God knows what has happened, is happening, and will happen.

However, if God is omnipotent then anything is possible. God can do whatever pleases the divine will. So God can’t know what is going to happen in the future if God has the power to change the future. So can God be both omniscient and omnipotent? I don't think so but you probably do, so basically God can change anything if he wants in my books.



Your books are wrong. Read the Bible, then come back after you have some understanding of what it says and how God has dealt with people and for what reasons. Its not rocket science to the one sincerely wanting to know. Start with the Gospel of John and then the Book of Acts.

Here is the best Bible program out there that 500.00 of any other Bible program, can't beat. Thompson Chain Reference library download. ITS FREE!

http://www.bible-explorer.com/

http://www.bible-explorer.com/fbe_scripts/download.cgi?file=BE4setup.EXE

 2007/7/6 13:11
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Out of context it is our charge. In context it is Gods charge by the Christ that is in us, if you don't have the Spirit of Christ we are none of His to begin with and we could not accomplish anything, for without Christ we can do nothing, but in Christ we can do all things.

By Albert Barnes:

My sentiments also;

Through Christ which strengtheneth me. Cmt. on Joh 15:5. Of the strength which Christ can impart Paul had had abundant experience; and now his whole reliance was there. It was not in any native ability which he had; not in any rigour of body or of mind; not in any power which there was in his own resolutions; it was in the strength that he derived from the Redeemer. By that he was enabled to bear cold, fatigue, and hunger; by that he met temptations and persecutions; and by that he engaged in the performance of his arduous duties. Let us learn hence,

(1.) that we need not sink under any trial, for there is One who can strengthen us.

(2.) That we need not yield to temptation: there is One who is able to make a way for our escape.

(3.) That we need not be harassed, and vexed, and tortured with improper thoughts and unholy desires: there is One who can enable us to banish such thoughts from the mind, and restore the right balance to the affections of the soul.

(4.) That We need not dread what is to come. Trials, temptations, poverty, want, persecution, may await us; but we need not sink into despondency. At every step of life, Christ is able to strengthen us, and can bring us triumphantly through. What a privilege it is, therefore, to be a Christian--to feel, in the trials of life, that we have one Friend, unchanging and most mighty, who can always help us! How cheerfully should we engage in our duties, and meet the trials that are before us, leaning on the arm of our Almighty Redeemer ! Let us not shrink from duty; let us not dread persecution; let us not fear the bed of death. In all circumstances, Christ, our unchanging Friend, can uphold us. Let the eye and the affections of the heart be fixed on him; let the simple, fervent, believing prayer be directed always to him when trials come, when temptations assail, when duty presses hard upon us, and when a crowd of unholy and forbidden thoughts rush into the soul, and we shall be safe.

{a} "through Christ" Joh 15:5; 2Co 12:9

This is eternal security, with unfailing Love and strength in Him we will overcome all things which Paul expresses in all his epistles, if used in all that Paul has said by the Spirit of Christ in him and by the Holy Spirit teacher of truth. Not single our one scripture that gives negative compliant thought to loosing salvation.

In Him Salvation is secure: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/7/6 16:39Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???

Beloved Philip,

The sermon you posted is a great sermon, and it is a terrific encouragement to the spirit, which is what it is supposed to be. It is an exhortation, as is a great deal of the Bible, which is why it is so readable, over and over again.

But technically, we are not on this thread, or in this life, for what God is able to do in us, or what He is willing to do in us, but what He says He does, and what He says we do.

But because of the teachings of the doctrine of Once Saved...Always Saved, you (and I) must ask and answer some questions, and the very young in Christ do not know to answer these questions:

Who saves me? Well, Jesus, of course.

How am I saved? By faith in the Bood Covenant sealed in Jesus, on the Cross at Calvary, through the Father's Grace.

How do I remain saved? By acting on one's faith in Jesus.

How do I get faith in Jesus? He gives you the faith when you choose Him.

How do we keep our faith? The Holy Spirit tests you in your faith by asking you to please Him by obeying Him. And to be sure you understand each stage of your spiritual growth, He keeps pressing the pace until you fail.

If you fail the test, He'll keep testing you. If you keep failing long enough, He will stop picking you up, dusting you off, explaining it all again to you, and leave you in your failure.

Yes, but how then can we be saved? By repentence. Every time you sin, you repent, and try again. Repent does not mean being sorry for doing something, or changing your mind, but changing your actions.

Christ changes our hearts by giving us an infusion of faith and the work of the Holy Spirit in us when we choose Him as our Lord and Savior. We must strengthen that faith by right action. If we do not, faith gets worn out, and with it the Holy Spirit. It's called grieving the Holy Spirit, and it happens every time we sin. Sin enough, and we grieve Him away.

Now, the Holy Spirit works with us so that every right action we take strengthens our faith. Every wrong action weakens our faith. Grace covers us for a while. If we walk backward along the narrow path long enough, we will get to the point we were when Christ first found us, in and managed to attract our notice, in unbelief. We do not know where that place is, but He does.

He will keep trying to get our attention, literally jumping up and down, blinding people, allowing them to be thrown into ditches by the Devourer, or any manner of combinations of actions aimed at getting our eyes on Him.

Unfortunately, the Devourer is also the Great Deceiver, and can lead us in tiny increments just to the left and the right of Jesus, and gradually pull us around in a big circle until we end up walking the wrong way on that narrow pathway. He's also quite capable of pretending to be the Holy Spirit or Jesus, or even the Great I AM. He has a lot of power, enough to best any unwary human, without grace. And to keep the grace, we have to want it, and keep choosing it.

Which is why we have to remain wary, and not give the Deceiver any help that the Holy Spirit does not balance, and help us to overcome over and over by repeating right action, then whole clusters of right actions, then clusters of clusters of right actions.

The Holy Spirit does a great work in us, by faith, by our acting on faith, by our choosing to act on faith, until we get Home.

We have a head start in Jesus. We have a lot of help in the Holy Spirit. God wants us to succeed.

But, in our hands is the choice. It is really the only thing we have to do, and yes, God knows who makes it and who doesn't, who chooses Him and who chooses himself, or money, or any of the other things of the flesh that drag us away from God. But we do not, and He doesn't tell us.

Yes, those that are saved in Jesus can assume that they are safe, and free forever, but alas, it is not entirely true until we are dead, or translated, which ever comes first.

And that is because we are easily deceived, by ourselves, and by the Devil, and Jesus will only protect us as long as we keep getting back up, and choosing Him when we fall.

And we have to repeat tests and right actions over and over again until we are back up on the straight and narrow path.

He is the One who enables us to succeed.

Every test is a choice between ourselves and what we want, and what He wants. We are the ones who must continue in Him, and that, unfortunately is a daily choice, even an hourly or a minutely or a secondly, depending on how bad your day goes.

And although Jesus says we will not be tempted beyond our endurance, it is our endurance, not His. Yes, His strength in us, but how do we get that strength? By the continual treasuring of His blessing, of His grace, and of His sacrifice.

Once we stop treasuring it, so does He.

Please, stop teaching this deceptive doctrine. Because it is just a hairsbreadth from being correct. But that hairsbreadth is enough to get you into hell, and by your own choice, too.

Christ will and does give and give and give. But we never know when He will give us over to our own desires.

It's simple in the beginning. Choose Jesus.

It's simple every day. Choose Jesus.

We have to keep on choosing Jesus every step of the way. We don't get to rest beyond the next test, and most of the time, we do not know what the test is until we are up against the ropes, feeling the hot breath of a great carnivourous being who wants us to fail.

It is so easy for us to believe what we want to and not exactly what all the scripture says. Not part of it, but all of it.

And as we grow, we are tested on the nuances of the Eleven Commandments. And we fail. And when we fail, we have to choose again. Which way, back, or forward, rest or not rest, try or not try. Enough choices keep you going in one direction or the other.

This is our Calvary...and we have just begun to climb.


Blessings,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/7/7 5:26Profile









 Re:

Quote:
How do we keep our faith? The Holy Spirit tests you in your faith by asking you to please Him by obeying Him. And to be sure you understand each stage of your spiritual growth, He keeps pressing the pace until you fail.



Quote:
If you fail the test, He'll keep testing you. If you keep failing long enough, He will stop picking you up, dusting you off, explaining it all again to you, and leave you in your failure.




Forrect, do you have any scripture to back this up. I don't want to see OT scripture though. What we have and what they had are not the same.

There is more than enough NT scripture to disqualify what you are saying.

Jesus Christ is the Author and Finisher of our faith. He is our Alpha and Omega, First and Last and Beginning and End of us. We are complete In Him, which include the middle part, that some say is up to us.

James says the testing is for our perfecting or maturity.

Peter says the testing and fellowship is to pour acid on our old flesh nature, habits, and attachments to this world. *1st John qualifies these(the pride of life, lust of the eyes, and lust of the flesh) is of the world.

Paul says in Galatians, those who are Christs have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Abraham failed miserably in his test of waiting 75 + years for God's promise of the promised child, and went about with Sarah's hand maiden and produced his own child, thinking he had to fulfill that promise in his own flesh and own way. He failed, failed, failed. Did God give Abraham up? NO! Did Abraham and Sarah in fact have that PROMISED Child, Isaac...a total miracle, seeing Sarah was past age and barren?

God has to bring us to the complete end of ourselves, our pride, self effort, in order to show in us,and reveal in us and to us , His power, His Life, and His Promises that are unfailing. God cannot lie. When we fall totally flat on our face, and just can't do it anymore....Praise God...Now that you are out of the way...He can and He will.

Love in Christ
Katy-did :-)


PS (adding). The testing of our faith is to His Sons and Daughters ONLY. We begin as Sons and Daughters, and grow up in Him. These are not testings to those outside of Christ in order to become a Son or Daughter once you have passed. There are no such tests aor even scripture to back such a thing up.

Many use Matthew as an conditional Gospel to Grace. Matthew was witten to the Jews, for the Jews that lead up to and including the Tribulation period, and those who will have to live under the Kingdom Reign "laws" (He will rule with an IRON FIST, an Iron Rod) at that time. Those who are Christs do not have to poke out an eye or cut off a hand to enter. We will reign and rule with Him, all ready being Glorified together with Him.

We( The Church- His Body) now enter through the flesh, through the veil, and are crucified with Christ. Every part of us( our old adam 1 is judically rendered dead NOW. Can't get any more dead than that. ***Colossians 3:1-4

 2007/7/7 9:55





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