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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear brothers and sisters,

i have no problem discussing both sides to this issue. i used to preach the other side of losing salvation for 5-6 years ago after i was saved.

but if there is gonna be arguing and accusing, that just ain't cool. if you want to ask me questions about salvation, sanctification, justification, etc, go ahead. i am not gonna accuse anyone of anything just because you may be curious about my different posts.

but if we can't all look past our different posts and remember that we are brothers and sisters in Christ, then i would rather not be on this thread..

see ya guys later,

 2007/7/3 13:19Profile









 Re:

Grannyannie said:

Quote:
Katy - first you accused me of new age lovey dove stuff because I was trying to make peace on this thread by saying we need to have peace between those of these two different persuasions ... because of this same controversy that No MAN has been able to solve since Christ.



GrannyAnnie, the subject on this thread changed with Omley, THAT WAS about OSAS vs losing your salvation. HE CHANGED the subject....from SAYING He is OSAS of a citizen to now working his way up the ladder to sonship. Please go back and re-read these posts. This is NOW what the discussion is about. Where in the sacrifice of the finished work of Christ? Is such a thing taught? Nowhere.

Because you have not kept up with these conversations, I'm sorry you got hurt in thinking it was the original thread.

One last thing, and then I'm done here...it's getting out of control. Hudson Taylor, before he died, wrote a letter, a sad letter about how, the closer he came to God, all he could see in himself was sin. How sad, that he didn't realize he was looking at the old man, rendered dead with Christ, and how sad he didn't enjoy who is was at the time In Christ, a new Creation, created in Righteousness and Holiness.

We can spend the rest of our lives picking and scratching sin off a dead body, weeping and crying all along the way at how horrible we are. How sad. Jesus became sin for us, took our sin upon him, and died for our sin, nailed it to the cross. We died with Him, and in Colossians, that circumcision of Christ now in our heart, is our New Heart.

But do as you will, believe as you will. I stand in the liberty of what Jesus did for me, and I will not be put back under the yolk of bondage to pick and scratch sin off a dead man. That is forbidden. Paul said, I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus, not the marks of the South American floggers, beating themselves and wipping themselves, trying to being the flesh into subjection. It died with Christ.
Old things pass away, behold all things become new. Everything Paul taught was to the Church, SONS, who are Citizens of heaven. I am a Daughter, who has my Citizenship in Heaven.

God Bless you all
In Christ
Katy-did ;-)

PS: Edited/addition
Satan wants tokeep the Church powerless and focused on self, away from the Cross. He's doing a mighty fine job here, and with many helpers to boot!

I will not answer or comment on anymore posts here. You can find your answers in the Word of God only. Rememer Satan hates the Cross, the Power of the Cross, the Blood of Christ and the wants to keep you ignorant of the Finished work of Christ....that's his job!!!

God Bless!

 2007/7/3 13:29









 Re:

Katy, You're not that old that you would have a bad memory - right ?

You remember when you and I first started talking on this thread, the love shown ?

I love Hudson Taylor, Spurgeon, Murray, Gill, and all the others on this site.
That is what I told you when we first starting talking.

I told you I'm in a Reformed Theology Church, but used to be AoG like Phil.

He stayed and changed his view from theirs on this one topic also.

Do you see what I've been trying to say from the beginning now ?

UNITY between those who hold to OSAS as long as it doesn't produce laziness or lack of "striving for the prize" and not legalism, as Paul contended against.

Katy, when I asked for this earlier in this thread you said basically that I was robbing you of The Gospel. With all of the Great Authors here that I also mentioned earlier, you said, then they aren't preaching the Gospel neither, as in Wesley, Torrey, etc.

Do you see why I left off of this discussion.

Friend, through-out this thread, you've leveled very heavy charges against "us", as I said way back when on here.

No one has thrown such charges at you until you started these things and throwing the "cultic" words around, just because you didn't agree with me or "understand Osmly".

When you accused him of Occultic stuff also besides just me earlier .... that is when I came back on and posted a friendly heads-up to you ... but you went off again.

Please see that you were looking for a fight with "anybody" who differed from you .... despite that I said, "this site holds Authors from both views and we love them all" ... that made you upset too.

I hope maybe both you and Phil will see, that we can disagree on here over this or whatever, without accusing each other of being occultic, not preaching the Gospel, or of other charges meaning the person isn't "saved".

Thanks you two.

 2007/7/3 13:44
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

"..... Cleanse your hands, you sinner; and purify your heart, you doubleminded. James 4:8

How do we cleanse?

Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in Himself:

Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,

Phl 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of [His] good pleasure.

2Th 1:11 Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of [this] calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of [His] goodness, and the work of faith with power:

A believer must be called. If not called, it would be needless to say that worthiness could never be fulfilled. It is for His good pleasure and by His Goodness that the Faith of Jesus Christ by His resurrection power, we are saved. That power keep us in His grasp and we will never be released for it, or God is an abortionist, birth aborted, I don't think so.
Why do you think God allows abortion? To show us how terrible and sinful it is by taking a life that has no say in being killed. God is not That way what He has begun in us He will finish, we are birthed by the Seed of God, Jesus Christ in us and that Seed will produce life, and that life is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

James is speaking to a Jewish audience and coming from a Jewish Back Ground with a different back ground of the Gospel. James is a believer but bringing to the forefront of His message the Law the Jews' have lived under for 430 years. The revelation to Paul is 100 percent Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ given by the Father to those that are called and they will hear, both Jew and Gentile. Acts 28:27-29 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it. And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.

The power of His resurrection; Phl 3:10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; Galatians 2:19-21 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

To Know Him.

The Faith of Christ by the Calling of GOD Making us conformable to His death.

Galatians 2:14-16 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, ((((but by the faith of Jesus Christ,)))) even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Who's Faith? Certainly now ours. Ephesians 2:7-10 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Please refute what I am saying by scripture, by scripture. Are we called? Are we birthed by Incorruptable Seed? Is our Faith Christ what we are save through? Are we new creatures in Christ? Will God abort that birth? Are we saved eternally by The Christ Seed that is in us?
Can you jump out of the Hands of God?

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Second death to those that are in Christ Jesus? I think not, Rom 15:17 I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.

To the Jew first then to the Gentile also.
Jhn 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed;

How do we continue in His Word? In the Church?
Fulfilling the Word of God?

Colossians 1:24-29 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, (((((to fulfil the word of God;))))) Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Whose working? His working, which workfare in me mightily.

Never able to get out of His working.

In Christ: PHillip

Psalms 23:1-6 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

Psalms 24:1-6
The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein. For he hath founded it upon the seas, and established it upon the floods. Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place? He that hath clean hands, and a pure heart; who hath not lifted up his soul unto vanity, nor sworn deceitfully. He shall receive the blessing from the LORD, and righteousness from the God of his salvation. This is the generation of them that seek him, that seek thy face, O Jacob. Selah.

Jacob: the heel catcher, and the supplanter;

Who is our supplanter? Jesus Christ. Do we seek Him? Why? Jhn 10:10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have [it] more abundantly.


_________________
Phillip

 2007/7/3 15:19Profile









 Re:

Annie,

As long as the gospel remains man-centered and not God-centered, this arguement indeed will continue until Christ returns.

The message of Christ that Paul and Peter also taught is God-centered; a restoration unto God, mankind who has been held captive from Him, from a Father who desires "many son's brought into Glory"--- retored to His presence in Divinely Human flesh, The Man Jesus being the "first of first fruits" "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; and being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey *him" Hebrews 5:8-9 (KJV)

*The Man now made the Christ of Heaven as Divine-Man ---- Him in whom we are to move and have our being because He is in His own.[Jn 20.22]

Therefore the gospel is more than simply being about being redeemed and going to heaven.

The church, for 2000yrs has made it be all about man's salvation to keep him out of Hell, and what God has done and will do for man, and Him being a "blessing machine" rather than understanding why God provided for man in Christ that man, upon his being "begotten again" should get on with being rectified and becoming what he was intended to be from before the world began. [1Pet.1.3,4,22,23 KJV]

How this gets "screwed up' to mean sinless perfection as some here have, and I believe purposely attempted to do, is beyond me. Why I say "purposely" is because they are full of pride and unbelief, not willingly to understand they have embraced a fatalistic religious doctrine nor willing to be rectified in their thinking away from it. One here is vehemently opposed to the way of cross purposed by God from the beginning fo Adam that Adam refused to embrace. The three of them together, there may be others, lurkers, have not read for undestanding and I believe on purpose, a word typed from contextual scripture that speaks accurately of what I have been offering up as the truth of the Gospel. It isn't the truth because I say so. It is because the scriptures say so. Viewing things from God's perspective will support this to be so. View it from man's perspective and truth becomes twisted; error, either ignorantly willful or willfully ignorant as we have seen in the rebuttals offered up. One can be a very humble willfully ignorant person. Humbleness becomes distraction when willful ignorance rules.

God's perspective will always bring unity in the brethren. The man-centered view will always bring the vitriol and the Satanic inspired rebuttals because Satan doesn't want the knowledge of "Son-ship" and "Joint-heir-ship" to be preached. It is a threat to him. He doesn't realize he is defeated. He doesn't want John 15,16,and 17 ,1 John 1, et al, taken into our understanding.

I repeat, our time on Earth, after being "begotten again" is for our grooming to learn the Character of the Father; to become "sons" brought into Glory and joint-heirs with Christ Jesus.

For those not born again; those without a revelation of Christ, they will not see it in this light. They will not see the "Pearl" to strive for it.

That is but one BIG reason OSAS is a dangerous doctrine. Think about, Annie and thanks for your support.

In Jesus forever,

ORMLY


 2007/7/3 15:53









 Re:

Quote:
To Know Him.

The Faith of Christ by the Calling of GOD Making us conformable to His death.

Galatians 2:14-16 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, ((((but by the faith of Jesus Christ,)))) even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Who's Faith? Certainly now ours. Ephesians 2:7-10 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.



This is very note worthy, something that must be embraced because Paul, as you so well point out, goes on to say in this chapter:"...... I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith [b]of[/b] the Son of God, .....". Galatians 2:20 (KJV) Paul is literally stating that he lives by the very LIFE of Christ.

Now, having said that can we see this verse in context with the above?

"[b]But without faith it is impossible to please him[/b] ....for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Hebrews 11:6 (KJV)
Whose faith is implied here? And can't we see that Father is looking for that Faith [of Christ]from us, equal to Himself, to be the Life most pleasing to Him?

Thanks for that, Christinyou



 2007/7/3 16:19
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Ormly Wrote:

""But without faith it is impossible to please him ....for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Hebrews 11:6 (KJV)
Whose faith is implied here? And can't we see that Father is looking for that Faith [of Christ]from us, equal to Himself, to be the Life most pleasing to Him?"

Absolutely, In Christ, Amen

Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/7/3 16:32Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
Ormly Wrote:

""But without faith it is impossible to please him ....for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." Hebrews 11:6 (KJV)
Whose faith is implied here? And can't we see that Father is looking for that Faith [of Christ]from us, equal to Himself, to be the Life most pleasing to Him?"

Absolutely, In Christ, Amen

Phillip



You just redeemed yourself.... :-D :-D

 2007/7/3 16:43









 Re:

GrannyAnnie, You said:

Quote:
Katy, when I asked for this earlier in this thread you said basically that I was robbing you of The Gospel. With all of the Great Authors here that I also mentioned earlier, you said, then they aren't preaching the Gospel neither, as in Wesley, Torrey, etc.



The problem here is the words..."you basically said". Did I or didn't I? You see, there is where contention and strife begin, reading into someone elses statement your own intrepretation. Before you jumped on me, did you first ask me to clarify? No. That is important. But Granny, the first time you jumped, I was really shocked, bercause it wasn't about this at all. You got mad because I(we) didn't respond to Forrest. You took something I said, and ASSUMED that I said it to you. You were wrong in doing that.

This is a place of debate, and debates can get heated. This is Not the church, so again, you assumed it was, and say wonen have no right to speak on here to men...but men can take what you say in quotes, and you can't respond? Is there a rule women should not be on here at all? Then all women, including you should get off.

You've made many unkind and unfair accusations, even to Phil, in playing referee where none was needed. That conversation was between Phil and Omley. Why did you intrude and tell him he had no right to ask such questions. (Are women busy bodies in other mens matters?) Paul says so.

If any man on this blog professes to be a teacher, he should not be afraid or ashamed to lay out his statement of faith for all to see (when asked to do so as Omley was asked about his belief on the foundational points of the Gospel).

Just because someone comes on here and makes 274 blog statements, does not give him authority over anyone.

You have taken issues, not involved with debating scripture and made them personal issues.

When I finally figured out what Omley was talking about ...*working your way to sonship*, he made an unkind remark. I think many were confused as to what he was talking about at first, and I was trying to get him to explain. You don't get explanations from one sentence comments.

Many good authors have made many errors. I pointed out some errors of Oswald Chambers. I also said that is what confuses Christians, because they take every word these authors say and think everthing is truth. These are just men like you and I. I said we don't worship authors of Commentaries...we worship Jesus Christ.

Now, I am probably as old or older than you, and my memory does not remember calling you GrannyAnny anything. Please find those blogs, in the original text and I will be glad to re-examine. If I said specifically...GrannyAnnie you are this or that... I want to see it.

Exposing false teaching is not attacking you personally. Please know that. I love Andrew Murray, but if someone brought something he said that was wrong to the table, I would be most grateful. We all need to watch out for one another...this is love, and sometimes love is tough.

"I am crucified with Christ" is my heart and soul. I know this PERSONALLY, not just in writings or doctrine. I have suffered the loss of all things, and I KNOW what suffering is, beyond words. I KNOW what that suffering produces in our life. I also know part of that suffering is in defending the Gospel, even in the face of being misunderstood, mocked, and stone throwing. I know what my Gift is. I hate it, and I wish I didn't have it, but I do. That is the truth. I know how the Lord has taught me to use it, and the price paid for using it. Oh how I wish it were cooking chicken dinners for Wed night prayer meetings. But it was God's purpose WHEN HE CALLED ME, that He knew from the foundation of the world what He had and has in store for me. He said to me one day..."The things you will suffer for me"...

Let's all keep our eye on the Lord, pray for one another.

I do love you GrannyAnnie!!!
Love in Christ
Katy-did

 2007/7/3 19:30









 Re:

Granny Annie, I've been sitting here all evening re-reading my posts from the time I signed on. I can find no malice towards you. I do know where it came of the track..Your definition of Gospel and mine. You use it for just your salvation,I use it as a whole. Justification, Sancrification and Glorification. Alpha, Omega, First and Last and Beginning and End. Maybe I am not using it properly, as I see that is where Omley was put off by my using "The Gospel" as more than just your justification.

To me the "Good News" has more substance then any Sunday News Paper...which includes, Sports, Weather, Events, Ads, Legal notices, and more.

In Christ
Katy-did :-)

 2007/7/3 21:33





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