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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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 Re:

Omley, those are very simple questions that any True Believer would be "DELIGHTED" in answering.


Paul said " I am not ashamed of the Gospel. Anyone who cannot answer with delight is ashamed!

Katy-did

[u][i][b][size=small][color=CC0000]ps: People who answer a question with another question, don't have the answer. Every Born Again Christian has those answers right on the tip of their tongue!!![/color][/size][/b][/i][/u]

 2007/7/3 8:50
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear ormly,

brother, these are very simple questions about what do you believe concerning the blood, cross, salvation and the heart.

once again, i am not trying to make accusations or imply anything, i am simply trying to understand your different posts. if you would please answer the questions, it would help me out much.

thanks

 2007/7/3 9:21Profile









 Re:

I have given answers I believe to be simple ones, simple because I believe they are well understood by thiose who read the Bible correctly. You have not seen fit to respond but rather to ignore and ask more questions. When you respond to what I have already given you and deal with them in a forthright, I will be glad to answer more of your questions. Maybe what I am trying to say is, stopping avoiding my answers.

With regards to what asked me I asked you to consider Job. Have you? How about David? Did God give them new hearts and yet they believed God?


A simple yes or no will suffice. However, your answer will give direction to why you believe what you believe.

 2007/7/3 10:11









 Re:

When David came to the Lord for cleansing, he came in *humility*, realizing he was at the MERCY of God. Yes, even in the OT there was Mercy, and that Mercy seat sat on top of the Ark of the Covenant. David, when praying to God, stood before the Ark, knowing if he God would not forgive him, and touched it, he would die.

He did not die. We come boldly to the throne of Grace to find help and Mercy in time of need. We do not purify ourselves, by ourselves. This is the work of God. It it His Glory in doing so. Those who do not know the Glory of God, have never met the God of Glory.

Love in Christ
Katy-did ;-)

 2007/7/3 10:32
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear ormly,

how have i avoided your answers?? your answers have sparked more questions that are very simple and to the point.

i wanted to make sure that we are on the same foundation. Christ, His blood and the cross.

why does this frustrate you or bother you?? if you asked me the questions i asked you, i would love to answer them. they are the very foundation for what i believe. but you avoid them. why??

anyways, if you do not want to answer the questions, then we can go no further in our talks regarding this subject..

well that's probably a good thing anyways since the thread got a little of track.

sorry guys, i apologize for going on a little rabbit trail somewhat..

 2007/7/3 10:34Profile









 Re:

With regards to what you asked me I asked you to consider Job. Have you? How about David? Did God give them new hearts and yet they believed God?


A simple yes or no will suffice. However, your answer will give direction to why you believe what you believe.

 2007/7/3 10:37









 Re: Freedom to ...

Brother Phil, you are a nice guy, but these questions are sad.

The first is the worst I've seen yet. How would you feel if I asked you these after you had posted on this forum 278 times.

I looked at Ormly's profile and he's retired - so he is more than likely older than you and others on this thread.

Do you ask many Christians these type questions ?

You may want to go back and read 'all' his posts and not be holding onto apron strings here and let men teach men.

I'll interpret here, 'just out of two' of Ormly's written posts. I could have gone back further into this thread to show how "heartless" your questions are.
Neither you nor Katy understand what that "stoney heart" of the O.T. nor the New really means, yet you rebuke someone on here, red posts and all, when you haven't even the foggiest what the WORD is saying on this topic of the heart - just for one.

If you asked me if I was saved .... I wouldn't even bother answering you --- how would you have answered these ? I think you'd be FRUSTRATED by these yourself.

First Omsly is accused of being a Mormon, a Cultist, now his Salvation is being questioned.

Phil, read [b]his[/b] posts brother.
I see he cares about you, enough to answer with longer posts to you, because you 'are' a nice guy, but you have what us ladies call, a hook in your nose, 'presently', maybe not even realizing it.
Praying you'll stand on your 'own' and read back however many pages you may need to in order to see an Older Brother reaching out to you for a DEEPER walk in the fulness of Christ.
LORD bless you.

Quote:
Phil asked: do you believe that you were a sinner in need of a savior??

Ormly wrote: I was fertile ground from the first; I accepted Christ the first night. I never had a problem accepting Jesus Christ.

Phil wrote: do you believe in repentance??

Ormly wrote: I was fertile ground from the first; I accepted Christ the first night. I never had a problem accepting Jesus Christ.

Phil asked: do you believe that the blood of Jesus cleanses and purges our sins??

Ormly wrote: How can our new life in Him be pleasing if we don't enter the way of the cross to learn the Character of the Father? Anything short of learning Him is sin because that's what the new birth is all about. The incomplete message of Gospel leaves that part out.

Phil asked: do you have to kill sin within or did the cross of Christ render our old man inopperative??

Ormly wrote: "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded". James 4:8 (KJV)
Now who does the purifying in the above, God or you? Who is this speaking to?

Phil asked: do you believe that the heart is where all of our emotions, intellect and will abide??

Ormly wrote: How does "our new one", as you believe we receive, be led by God when we still cling to the old ways of living; when we want Christ but don't desire to give up our worldly lifesyles?

Phil asked: is the heart where the essence of life is??

Orsly wrote: "Put off the old, put on the new".

Phil asked: what do you think of the blood of Christ?? what does it mean to you??

Ormly wrote: I don't mean this to be mis-construed to mean man was able to redeem himself by the righteousness of himself. So please don't you do that. No man could do that or else Christ would not needed to do it for us.

Ormly wrote: How can our new life in Him be pleasing if we don't enter the way of the cross to learn the Character of the Father? Anything short of learning Him is sin because that's what the new birth is all about. The incomplete message of Gospel leaves that part out.

Ormly Posted: [Page 54 from Oswald Chambers - who Katy Mocks also] -
[b]"That the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh". [/b]2 Cor. 4:10.

Ormly Wrote page 43: A saint is what one becomes when he/she is born again; given the nature of God. We all know folk like that. We call them "babes in Christ". The "faithful in Christ" are those who embrace the way of cross from that point forward upon their new birth in Christ, "faithful" unto becoming a son: "For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through *sufferings". Hebrews 2:10 (KJV)

*[passion]


In your above, your use of the word "salvation" must be seen in all its inclusiveness; to mean that it is something having been placed in us is also that which is to be worked out by our wilfully entering into the process of the way of the cross, the learning to abandon our lives to the Father, through obedience, by the passion, through the revelation of Christ Jesus.. Pentecost, the coming upon of the Holy Spirit is for this purpose as much as anything else that happened on that day.

Please read what I wrote very carefully. Much scripture speaks of the necessity of our need to press in for the receiving of what Father desires for us [b]after[/b] one is born again. It's the "Pearl of great price".



And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to HIS purpose, for whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [u]to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. [/u]

Jas 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and[u] purify your hearts[/u], ye double minded.

1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him[u] purifieth himself, even as he is pure.[/u]
An act of the "will".

 2007/7/3 10:49









 Re:

Re:

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LoveHim wrote:
brother ormly,

you trip me out man. you make statements, but give no scripture to defend it. you simply cut up
mine and then just add comments.. why is that??? i'm just curious.

i show you that before we are saved, we are by nature children of wrath.
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But you haven't. You stated it, making it a blanket without support.
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we love self and we love sin. do you agree with that??
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Whose we? And know I don't if you mean to apply it everyone. Can you apply your accuse to Job?

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you say that you never had a heart of stone, why is that?? is there scripture to support what you are saying.
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Did Job have a heart of stone, David? Is there scripture to support that what you say can be universally applied all mankind, I don't think so. What do you do with all the righteous people who existed before Christ. Now please don't be as one who would ignorantly state, there were none when indeed, there were. --- and I don't mean this to be mis-construed to mean man was able to redeem himself by the righteousness of himself. So please don't you do that. No man could do that or else Christ would not needed to do it for us.
Quote:
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i am not trying to act like i know it all, i don't, but if you dismiss what i am saying, please show me why i am wrong. you say your heart was fertile. so you were saved from the first time you ever heard the gospel. you never once sinned and rejected Christ???
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Don't mix the two/three questions to be one and thus confuse the issue. I was fertile ground from the first; I accepted Christ the first night. I never had a problem accepting Jesus Christ. Did I sin afterwards, yes. Did I "quench the Spirit" after I was saved, yes, didn't you? Were you un-seved because you did? You all speak of OSAS, well here is an area of thinking where it might apply if you don't rip the scriptures apart as is case you all do to support your view overall. I here speak of the backlslider, those of whom the seed fell upon rocky soil.

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you say there is nowhere in scripture that talks of God giving man a new heart. what about ezekiel like i have been writing??
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What about my answer to you in regard to Ezekiel you asked for. Didn't you read it?

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How can our old sinful heart be pleasing to God??
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How can our new life in Him be pleasing if we don't enter the way of the cross to learn the Character of the Father? Anything short of learning Him is sin because that's what the new birth is all about. The incomplete message of Gospel leaves that part out.

Quote:
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how can our old sinful heart be led by God to do His will??
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How does "our new one", as you believe we receive, be led by God when we still cling to the old ways of living; when we want Christ but don't desire to give up our worldly lifesyles?

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does He not have the circumcise our hearts??
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We do that, too. "Put off the old, put on the new".

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does He not have to cleanse our hearts and purify them?? He does not give us a new heart to hear the gospel, but i cannot see from scripture where He does not give us a new heart and new spirit to follow Him..
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"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded". James 4:8 (KJV)
Now who does the purifying in the above, God or you? Who is this speaking to?

Quote:
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just some thoughts. if you're gonna cut up my post into 4-5 different paragraphs, please quote scripture so i can see where you are coming from..
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When you begin responding to the ones I submit as my support, I will.

 2007/7/3 11:01









 Re:

Many have the wrong concept that suffering saves us. Many Catholics believe this, and hindu as well, as they evolve themselves to higher spiritual status.

Our standing in Christ is exactly the same when we are a baby as well as an adult. It is the Lord's work to perfect his Children, and to bring them to maturity. What you are saying is my child is not may child, because he was just born???? He will become my child when he becomes a certain age???

Wrong. In Corinthians Chapter one...these Carnal Christians were called SAINTS.

Because Oswald Chambers did not undeerstand JUSTIFICATION, he over emphasized sanctification. Paul also said, we are sanctified BY FAITH...in Who? Yourselves?

Love in Christ
Katy-did ;-)

 2007/7/3 11:10









 Re:

Pro 6:12 A naughty person, a wicked man, walketh with a froward mouth.
Pro 6:13 He winketh with his eyes, he speaketh with his feet, he teacheth with his fingers;
Pro 6:14 Frowardness is in his heart, he deviseth mischief continually; he soweth discord.


I love the Classics because they ALSO teach, that unless a man or woman is "working out" his salvation/relationship with Christ and the FRUIT of the Spirit are not showing and the hungering and thirsting is not evident and one says, it's all God's job and I have nothing to do in His Work and do not have to strive for HOLINESS, then that man or woman, is like Balak or Jezebel, leading others to sin. Period.

 2007/7/3 11:18





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