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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

brother ormly,

ezekiel 37:26

v26- I will give you a NEW HEART and put a NEW SPIRIT within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give youa HEART OF FLESH.

i know what you mean brother, but the same could be said of hebrews 9:16-17. the author quotes jeremiah 32:33-34 to show how the law was written on our hearts and in our minds. if you look up jeremiah 31:33-34, jeremiah is talking about the house of judah and isreal. so why does the author of hebrews use this passage to refer to us?? because (like katy-did showed) we are partakers of the new covenant. praise God, ezekiel 37:26-27 and jeremiah 31:33-34 apply to us believers as well.

does that explain why i quoted that?? i hope so.

anyways, thanks for the post brother ormly.


 2007/7/2 14:23Profile









 Re:

Quote:

LoveHim wrote:
brother ormly,

ezekiel 37:26

v26- I will give you a NEW HEART and put a NEW SPIRIT within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give youa HEART OF FLESH.

i know what you mean brother, but the same could be said of hebrews 9:16-17. the author quotes jeremiah 32:33-34 to show how the law was written on our hearts and in our minds. if you look up jeremiah 31:33-34, jeremiah is talking about the house of judah and isreal. so why does the author of hebrews use this passage to refer to us?? because (like katy-did showed) we are partakers of the new covenant. praise God, ezekiel 37:26-27 and jeremiah 31:33-34 apply to us believers as well.

does that explain why i quoted that?? i hope so.

anyways, thanks for the post brother ormly.




But it is written on our existing hearts ---- not new ones. Can you see that?

We weren't born yet to have stoney hearts.

 2007/7/2 14:30
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear ormly,

weren't born yet to have stoney hearts?? what kind of hearts do we have before we are born again??

before Christ, was not the seed sown on stoney ground (heart)?? did we not have a heart that cares nothing for God and everything for ourselves??

before Christ, we don't care about God's law or His word. but after Christ has saved us, does He not give us a "new" heart.

a heart that longs for God like a deer pants for water. a heart that hungers for the True Bread of Life and thirst for the Living Water. a heart that wants to obey the greatest commandments to love the Lord with all you r heart... and love your neighbor as yourself.

it is much like david said "create in me a clean heart".

if our heart before Christ is one that loves self and sin, and our heart after Christ loves God and hates sin, then how is it not a "new" heart??? you cannot have the same stoney heart that just loves God now... it is a new heart of flesh..

 2007/7/2 17:11Profile









 Re:

Quote:

LoveHim wrote:
dear ormly,

weren't born yet to have stoney hearts?? what kind of hearts do we have before we are born again??



Mine was flesh but I am only speaking for myself.

Quote:
before Christ, was not the seed sown on stoney ground (heart)?? did we not have a heart that cares nothing for God and everything for ourselves??



Not mine. My soil [heart] was fertile.

Quote:
before Christ, we don't care about God's law or His word. but after Christ has saved us, does He not give us a "new" heart.



Speak for youself ---- and no, He doesn't.

Quote:
a heart that longs for God like a deer pants for water. a heart that hungers for the True Bread of Life and thirst for the Living Water. a heart that wants to obey the greatest commandments to love the Lord with all you r heart... and love your neighbor as yourself.



All done with the old one --- as was that was written with an old one, as well.

Quote:
it is much like david said "create in me a clean heart".



Never did get born again, did he? And yet he was a man after God's own Heart. Don't you ever wonder about that?

Quote:
if our heart before Christ is one that loves self and sin, and our heart after Christ loves God and hates sin, then how is it not a "new" heart??? you cannot have the same stoney heart that just loves God now... it is a new heart of flesh..



Had one before I was born again.

There is no in scripture where God ever gave man a new heart in order for man to come to Him or when he was born again. There is a verse that says we must purify it if we are doubleminded.

Btw, Did you stop hating sin/the deeds of the flesh, after you came to Christ? Be honest now.

 2007/7/2 18:16









 Re:

Quote:
it is much like david said "create in me a clean heart".




How did God do that?

Psalm 51:2
Wash me throughly from mine iniquity, and cleanse me from my sin.

Psalm 51:7
Purge me with hyssop,( Hebrews 9:19) and I shall be clean: wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

Love in Christ
Katy-did

 2007/7/2 20:04
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

brother ormly,

you trip me out man. you make statements, but give no scripture to defend it. you simply cut up mine and then just add comments.. why is that??? i'm just curious.

i show you that before we are saved, we are by nature children of wrath. we love self and we love sin. do you agree with that?? you say that you never had a heart of stone, why is that?? is there scripture to support what you are saying.

i am not trying to act like i know it all, i don't, but if you dismiss what i am saying, please show me why i am wrong. you say your heart was fertile. so you were saved from the first time you ever heard the gospel. you never once sinned and rejected Christ???

you say there is nowhere in scripture that talks of God giving man a new heart. what about ezekiel like i have been writing?? How can our old sinful heart be pleasing to God?? how can our old sinful heart be led by God to do His will?? does He not have the circumcise our hearts?? does He not have to cleanse our hearts and purify them?? He does not give us a new heart to hear the gospel, but i cannot see from scripture where He does not give us a new heart and new spirit to follow Him..

just some thoughts. if you're gonna cut up my post into 4-5 different paragraphs, please quote scripture so i can see where you are coming from..

love you guys.

 2007/7/2 22:37Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

by LoveHim on 2007/7/2 8:13:49

brother phillip,

please keep my quote in context. i was saying that for me to have an atitude that i have much better knowledge than you and that whatever you may say is nothing is mere arrogance and pride. i do not believe that to hold the position of perseverence of the saints is arrogant or prideful. c'mon brother, please keep my words in context.




Sorry, I knew exactily what you were saying, I just liked the quote when it pertains in context to those that think they can loose their salvation.

My knowledge is not better than you just an addition to it as your is to me.
Thank you for your posts they help me understand God's Word and add to what has been given me as well as given to you.

I did not mean to misquote or demeen your Quote or change it to my own thinking. I just liked it and used it, next time I will ask permission
or not make it in quotes or change it to my own script.

Thank you, In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/7/2 23:43Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3350
Texas

 Re:

Wow! I after reading some of this thread, guess some of us here can only hope that were Once Saved...Always Saved? :-P


_________________
Bill

 2007/7/3 0:11Profile









 Re:

Quote:

LoveHim wrote:
brother ormly,

you trip me out man. you make statements, but give no scripture to defend it. you simply cut up
mine and then just add comments.. why is that??? i'm just curious.

i show you that before we are saved, we are by nature children of wrath.



But you haven't. You stated it, making it a blanket without support.
Quote:
we love self and we love sin. do you agree with that??



Whose we? And know I don't if you mean to apply it everyone. Can you apply your accuse to Job?

Quote:
you say that you never had a heart of stone, why is that?? is there scripture to support what you are saying.



Did Job have a heart of stone, David? Is there scripture to support that what you say can be universally applied all mankind, I don't think so. What do you do with all the righteous people who existed before Christ. Now please don't be as one who would ignorantly state, there were none when indeed, there were. --- and I don't mean this to be mis-construed to mean man was able to redeem himself by the righteousness of himself. So please don't you do that. No man could do that or else Christ would not needed to do it for us.
Quote:
i am not trying to act like i know it all, i don't, but if you dismiss what i am saying, please show me why i am wrong. you say your heart was fertile. so you were saved from the first time you ever heard the gospel. you never once sinned and rejected Christ???



Don't mix the two/three questions to be one and thus confuse the issue. I was fertile ground from the first; I accepted Christ the first night. I never had a problem accepting Jesus Christ. Did I sin afterwards, yes. Did I "quench the Spirit" after I was saved, yes, didn't you? Were you un-seved because you did? You all speak of OSAS, well here is an area of thinking where it might apply if you don't rip the scriptures apart as is case you all do to support your view overall. I here speak of the backlslider, those of whom the seed fell upon rocky soil.

Quote:
you say there is nowhere in scripture that talks of God giving man a new heart. what about ezekiel like i have been writing??



What about my answer to you in regard to Ezekiel you asked for. Didn't you read it?

Quote:
How can our old sinful heart be pleasing to God??



How can our new life in Him be pleasing if we don't enter the way of the cross to learn the Character of the Father? Anything short of learning Him is sin because that's what the new birth is all about. The incomplete message of Gospel leaves that part out.

Quote:
how can our old sinful heart be led by God to do His will??



How does "our new one", as you believe we receive, be led by God when we still cling to the old ways of living; when we want Christ but don't desire to give up our worldly lifesyles?

Quote:
does He not have the circumcise our hearts??



We do that, too. "Put off the old, put on the new".

Quote:
does He not have to cleanse our hearts and purify them?? He does not give us a new heart to hear the gospel, but i cannot see from scripture where He does not give us a new heart and new spirit to follow Him..



[i]"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded". [/i] James 4:8 (KJV)
Now who does the purifying in the above, God or you? Who is this speaking to?

Quote:
just some thoughts. if you're gonna cut up my post into 4-5 different paragraphs, please quote scripture so i can see where you are coming from..



When you begin responding to the ones I submit as my support, I will.

 2007/7/3 3:46









 Re:

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
by LoveHim on 2007/7/2 8:13:49

brother phillip,

please keep my quote in context. i was saying that for me to have an atitude that i have much better knowledge than you and that whatever you may say is nothing is mere arrogance and pride. i do not believe that to hold the position of perseverence of the saints is arrogant or prideful. c'mon brother, please keep my words in context.




Sorry, I knew exactily what you were saying, I just liked the quote when it pertains in context to those that think they can loose their salvation.

My knowledge is not better than you just an addition to it as your is to me.
Thank you for your posts they help me understand God's Word and add to what has been given me as well as given to you.

I did not mean to misquote or demeen your Quote or change it to my own thinking. I just liked it and used it, next time I will ask permission
or not make it in quotes or change it to my own script.

Thank you, In Christ: Phillip




Please keep that in mind when you mis-represent my words. I would greatly appreciate that. Thanks.

 2007/7/3 3:49





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