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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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PosterThread









 Re:

Dear Phil,

Words mean something, my friend.

You wrote:

"....most people who do not believe that you can lose your salvation will call the doctrine "perseverence of the saints". we believe that a truly born again person will not fall away and lose their salvation. [b]they will continue in the faith and persevere until the end because of Him who does the persevering *[within us][/b]

*[Therefore, "Don't quench the Spirit"]

[Emphasis mine]

Can you not see that by inference you are`saying "we" do the perservering?

One other thing: "Perserverance of the saints" is just another way to title OSAS. It still means one CAN'T lose their salvation[or give it away]. I believe that is why Paul makes the distinction he does in Eph.1.1. Read again that verse in this light we speak of.



 2007/7/2 5:33









 Re:

Lovehim asked:



Quote:
my question to those who believe you can lose your salvation is this "if hebrews 6 teaches us that we can lose our salvation, then why do people keep trying to preach and witness to "backsliders" who "lost their salvation"??



Hebrews 6 is not about losing your salvation. Being enlightened by the Holy Spirit is not salvation. Being indwelt is. That didn't come until the New Covenant promises...I will PUT MY SPIRIT IN YOU AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES. AND YOUR SIN AND INIQUITY I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.

Hebrews6: 9But, beloved, we are persuaded ***BETTER things of you, and things that accompany salvation***, though we thus speak.

Your answer is in verse 9. What are those BETTER things given to US that accompany salvation? Would this not be the Covenant promises, sealed in the Blood of Jesus...our Surety. The New Covenant is based on, BETTER, BETTER, BETTER!

Love in Christ
Katy-did

:-)

 2007/7/2 6:45









 Re:

Quote:

Katy-did wrote:
Lovehim asked:



Quote:
my question to those who believe you can lose your salvation is this "if hebrews 6 teaches us that we can lose our salvation, then why do people keep trying to preach and witness to "backsliders" who "lost their salvation"??



Hebrews 6 is not about losing your salvation. Being enlightened by the Holy Spirit is not salvation. Being indwelt is. That didn't come until the New Covenant promises...I will PUT MY SPIRIT IN YOU AND CAUSE YOU TO WALK IN MY STATUTES. AND YOUR SIN AND INIQUITY I WILL REMEMBER NO MORE.

Hebrews6: 9But, beloved, we are persuaded ***BETTER things of you, and things that accompany salvation***, though we thus speak.

Your answer is in verse 9. What are those BETTER things given to US that accompany salvation? Would this not be the Covenant promises, sealed in the Blood of Jesus...our Surety. The New Covenant is based on, BETTER, BETTER, BETTER!

Love in Christ
Katy-did

:-)



May I ask who your mentors are?

 2007/7/2 6:57









 Re:

Ormly, my mentors are, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
Covenant Promise,

"You have no need that anyone teach you", the Holy Spirit is our teacher. Jesus Christ is our teacher. Our Father is our teacher. Jesus said...MY WORDS are spirit and they are life. The Holy Spirit will lead you into all truth.
Ephesians 3, the Love of Christ passes on knowledge and truth.

I can find those scriptures to back that up if you would like.

Love in Christ
Katy-did

:-)

 2007/7/2 8:42
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear ormly,

i said that i believe that a truly born again person will not fall away or lose their salvation. they will continue in the faith and persevere because of Him who is doing the persevering within us.

you said that don't i see that we do the persevering.

brother ormly, i don't think that i ever said that we do nothing and we'll be fine. we continue to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling, but it is He who works in us both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

from our perspective, we are doing the persevering. from God's perspective, He is the One causing us to persevere.

so do i believe if one is truly born again and converted, that they will not lose their salvation? yes.

they will not lose their salvation because they will continue to persevere in the faith. what God has started, He will be faithful to complete. we have been born again of incorruptible seed. we have been filled with the Holy Spirit of promise. He has given us a new heart and a new spirit and He CAUSES us to walk in His ways. He who is born again cannot live a lifestyle of sin.

we will overcome, not because we are good, but because HE IS.

if anyone disagrees with me, that's fine, we're still brothers and sisters in Christ right? this is still a forum to exchange thoughts and scriptures right??

love you guys.

 2007/7/2 8:47Profile









 Re:

Ormly,
Isaiah 28:9
Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.

In Christ
Katy-did

 2007/7/2 9:04
whyme
Member



Joined: 2007/4/3
Posts: 293


 Re:

LoveHim,

that was an excellent example of the truth as you discern it spoken in love. this thread has revealed the snare of spiritual pride by a lot of very mature Christians. a true object lesson in humility. i've been a victim of falling into it myself in past posts. we all have a tendency to use scripture as a club to beat our doctrinal
challengers into submission. instead of building up it appears like tearing down. there is no theological ladder to heaven.

 2007/7/2 9:10Profile
JesusIsMyLrd
Member



Joined: 2005/10/28
Posts: 119
Iowa, USA

 Re:

Dear LoveHim,

Thank you very much for clarifying that. i really appreciate it.

i do agree with you in that a true believer will strongly press into the kingdom. i firmly believe that a true Christian will not walk in sin, as in 1st John we see.

But what i believe can and will happen, if we are not persistantly prevailing in the spiritual warefare that is raging (Which, by the way, if we perservere, that means that there also must be a way to fall into spiritual laziness... think about it for a while, it makes sense, too...) the ememy will be able to DECIEVE us, and we will FALL from grace, and be deceived, as is prophesied to happen in the last day, the great falling away.

gotta run. soory so short.

-nate


_________________
Nathan

 2007/7/2 9:21Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear nate,

thank you for your post. i appreciate you writing and expressing your side as well.

many of my friends believe that you can lose your salvation (i go to an assembly of God church). i use to also preach for about the first 5/6 years of my christian walk that one could lose their salvation (once again, i go to an A/G church). so that is all i knew.

but as i studied the word for myself and actually took a good look at both sides and let the Lord lead me in my walk with Him, i began to be convinced that a true born again believer will not lose their salvation.

i dare not say that if you believe that you can lose your salvation, that you're not holy or that you don't have an understanding like me (because that is nothing but mere arrogance and pride). i understand both sides of this issue.

i think much like king david, that a believer can fall into sin. like peter, one can backslide from where he was in his walk with God. but i believe that the correcting and disciplining hand of God will lead the believer back to where he needs to be. much like a shepherd will with his rod lead his sheep, so the great shepherd will do the same with his sheep.

that's my take on it.. to me there is so much scripture to support that even if a believer falls away for a season, he will repent and return to God and overcome.. but i definitely understand your position.

love you guys and thanks for posting out of a spirit of love.

 2007/7/2 9:44Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

If you can loose it then you can choose it and that makes God a liar.

Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Jhn 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

" (because that is nothing but mere arrogance and pride"

The pride of man, God cannot save me unless I choose Him.

Choose it or loose it? Especially when it is not yours to loose.

Loose it makes God's Christ a joke.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Thank you God that you chose me, because I would never have chosen you. Thank you that you keep me and no one can take me our to your Hands.

Romans 8:36-39 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/7/2 10:21Profile





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