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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???

Is everyone in agreement then, that all those living (and above the age of accountability) who are in an active relationship with Christ, known as 'saved', must maintain a continous walk forward in that relationship in faith, or lose that salvation?


[color=993300]Matthew 13;18. Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.
20. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21. Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
22. He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
23. But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.[/color]



Blessings,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/5/17 23:24Profile









 Re: I disagree

Quote:
Is everyone in agreement then, that all those living (and above the age of accountability) who are in an active relationship with Christ, known as 'saved', must maintain a continous walk forward in that relationship in faith, or lose that salvation?



Forrest,

I absolutely disagree! I disagree because your statement is entirely too subjective...what does "continuous walk forward" mean? What does that look like? You are saying that our security in Christ is not based upon His obedience, but our obedience (imperfect that it is...)

The GOOD NEWS OF THE GOSPEL is that HE LIVED THE LIFE WE COULD NOT LIVE! HE WAS THE PERFECT LAMB...THE PERFECT SACRIFICE THAT WE COULD NEVER BE! This is the foundation of our life with God. Our security in Christ, from beginning to end, is based upon His obedience not ours! Period!

So, then... "Shall we sin so that Grace may abound?"
(In other words..." Oh, So then I can live however I want and still be justified before God?"

Isn't that the question that Paul anticipated when he was explaining the Gospel in Romans. Why did he anticipate that question? It's the same question that is asked even today?

It's been said that if the Gospel is preached correctly, then that question will undoubtedly be asked:

"Shall we sin so that Grace may abound?"

What was Paul's response to the question that He, himself asked?

Quote:
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?



He does not say " You better not continue in sin or you will be cutoff"

No, he goes on to show that anyone who is justified has been crucified with Christ, and have been given a new nature and they cannot conitnue in sin, like they did when they were lost.

He first of all states objective truths about anyone who is in Christ. He says, this is who you are now...these are the facts about you if you are in Christ. Find out who you are now and walk in it. Be transformed by the renewing of your mind.

Again, the foundation of our security with God is based upon the Finished Work of Christ, from beginning to end!

 2007/5/18 8:51









 Re:

Hebrews says Jesus is the Surety of the New Covenant. Do a word study on surety, and re-examine the promises of the New Covenant.
God Bless. :-)

 2007/5/18 9:03









 Re: Christ - Surety

Quote:
Hebrews says Jesus is the Surety of the New Covenant. Do a word study on surety, and re-examine the promises of the New Covenant.



Absolutely!

All the Promises of God are, in Him yea (true) and Amen (already answered).

Surety - One who becomes responsible for another. Christ is the surety of the better covenant (Heb 7:22). In him we have the assurance that all its provisions will be fully and faithfully carried out.

 2007/5/18 9:13
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

Quote:

Mahoney wrote:
...what does "continuous walk forward" mean? What does that look like?

Maybe this is the right terminology.

Hebrews 10:19-39

19Therefore, brothers, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, 20by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, 21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. 23Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. 24And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. 25Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30For we know him who said, "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,"[d] and again, "The Lord will judge his people."[e] 31It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

32Remember those earlier days after you had received the light, when you stood your ground in a great contest in the face of suffering. 33Sometimes you were publicly exposed to insult and persecution; at other times you stood side by side with those who were so treated. 34You sympathized with those in prison and joyfully accepted the confiscation of your property, because you knew that you yourselves had better and lasting possessions.

35So do not throw away your confidence; it will be richly rewarded. 36You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised. 37For in just a very little while,
"He who is coming will come and will not delay.
38But my righteous one[f] will live by faith.
And [b]if he shrinks back,[/b]
I will not be pleased with him."[g] 39But we are not of those who shrink back [b]and are destroyed,[/b] but of those who believe and are saved. {bold Mine}

In the context of this whle chapter it seems that salvation is what he is talking about. If paul encourages us not to shrink back it must surely leave the door open for the thinking that salvation can be lost.


_________________
Zeke Oosthuis

 2007/5/18 9:17Profile









 Re: Good point

Zeke,

Is he not encouraging the Hebrew believers to continue to look to Christ for their strength, their salvation, their hope.

See, my contention with this whole debate is that people argue that Christians must do this and that and must be this and that, in order to REMAIN SAVED.

But if you look at the passage you quoted, the writer is simply telling the believers to continue to look away from everything else and continue to trust in Christ because HE IS FAITHFUL, not us. Yes, he speaks of judgement, but only to those who turn to anything other than the perfect sacrifice of Christ.

By the way, why did you only put in bold:

if he shrinks back, and

and are destroyed

But you passed right over what he says at the end of the whole passage.

Quote:
39But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved. {bold Mine}

;-)

 2007/5/18 9:36
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

Quote:

he speaks of judgement, but only to those who turn to anything other than the perfect sacrifice of Christ.

;-)

Is that not the issue before us in this thread? ;-) ;-)


_________________
Zeke Oosthuis

 2007/5/18 10:04Profile
PassingThru
Member



Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175


 Re:

Mahoney

I think the misunderstandings from both sides of the discussion are :-

Those that believe salvation cannot be lost, are not saying it's a frivolous "set and forget" doctrine. If a 'saved' person is lost then he was never really saved to start with.

Those that are saying that salvation can be lost are not saying it's a man-powered "salvation by works" doctrine. They are saying that a decision was required by man's free will to come to Christ, and that a similar free-willed decision allows a man to walk away from Christ.

Neither of the two views seems to provide an easy, effortless salvation. To me the practical consequences of the first view are [color=442200]"Fight hard to make sure you are saved - If you backslide you were never saved."[/color], while the consequences of the second view are [color=442200]"Fight hard to make sure you remain saved - if you backslide you are no longer saved"[/color].
[color=000099]
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
[/color]
Please correct me if I've misrepresented anyone's views here.

PassingThru

* Edited grammar.

 2007/5/18 10:12Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
PassingThru wrote:

Neither of the two views seems to provide an easy, effortless salvation. To me the practical consequences of the first view are [color=442200]"Fight hard to make sure you are saved - If you backslide you were never saved."[/color], while the consequences of the second view are [color=442200]"Fight hard to make sure you remain saved - if you backslide you are no longer saved"[/color].
[color=000099]
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
[/color]
Please correct me if I've misrepresented anyone's views here.

The corect view would be:

"Fight hard to make sure you remain saved - if you take on and start believing another Gosple you are no longer saved"
It's all about departing from the truth(1Timothy 4:1), not about how much one sins.

 2007/5/18 14:01Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???

Quote:

UniqueWebRev wrote:
Quote:
Is everyone in agreement then, that all those living (and above the age of accountability) who are in an active relationship with Christ, known as 'saved', must maintain a continous walk forward in that relationship in faith, or lose that salvation?



Mahoney wrote:
Forrest,

I absolutely disagree! I disagree because your statement is entirely too subjective...what does "continuous walk forward" mean? What does that look like?



I will re-quote myself with emphasis on the particular words that you all might see that what I said was not subjective at all, but under a specific condition.

[color=0000ff]Is everyone in agreement then, that [b][u]all those living[/b][/u] (and above the age of accountability) [b][u]who are in an active relationship with Christ[/b][/u], known as 'saved', [b][u]must maintain a continous walk forward in that relationship in faith[/b][/u], or lose that salvation?[/color]

Is not faith enjoined on us as a continuous condition of salvation, the breach of which, is unbelief, and therefore, non-relationship with Christ?

Blessings,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/5/19 8:08Profile





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