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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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 Re:

Ormly, Them?? you mean the Bible??? I'm not a commentary person Ormly. Yet you posted from Oswald Chambers????????? Who tells you you have to KILL sin within????? biased and slanted indeed. If you too would read the Bible, it would be amazing how the Holy Spiit does teach.

THe OT reveals the NT, and the NT fulfills the old. Didn't you know that? In the OT, God has drawn a picture gallery for us. Can't you see it?

Adam and Eve... Even taken out of Adam's side..His Bride. Ephesians...we are bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh.

Eve sin's...but Adam knew what he was doing...laid down his life for His Bride out of His own free will...here again..another Type of Christ.

Here's one... Noah's Ark. The Ark was also a type of Christ, Noah and his family, a type of the Church...safe IN CHRIST. God steered the ARK to be just at the right place to ****REST*** in the seventh month of the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat (Genesis 8:4). Guess what, when the flood waters receded, the ARK was lifted out of the water on the seventeenth day of the month of Abib. Almost 2400 years later Jesus rose from the dead...ON THAT VERY DAY...WOW!!! Do you think that was a coincidence? Absolutely not!!!

I will never throw my Bible away! Don't you understand Typology?

In Christ
Katy-did

:-)

PS Ormley, I am not going to address your rude comments anymore. You have an unteachable spirit, are arrogant, proud, and haughty ai might add. We all want to learn and grow from one anothers posts, yet you throw up insults. This post is not about your evolving (darwin ) into sonship in the first place. Read the thread title. You say you are assured of your citizenship. Well then what is the problem? Please start another post on your Darwin theory of evolution, and stop insulting people here on this one.
Good-day!

 2007/7/1 16:43
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Yes, Once Saved, always saved


dear saints

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved from before the setting of the Foundations of the World. AMEN.

Revelation 13 says:


[b]8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.[/b]

Ephesians 1 says

[b] 4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, [/b]

Hebrews 9 says


[b]26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.[/b]

Romans 8 says
[b]31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? 32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. 34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. [/b]

Jesus, Whose Shed Blood Saves us says this in John 6:

[b]38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. [/b]

Case closed, once saved, always saved. The Security we have in Jesus comes from the fact that He was slain from the foundations of the earth, before creation for our Salvation therefore those who are elected to Salvation by Grace, [i][b]can't[/b][/i] be separated from Him by anything. We can't be separated from His Love by anything (Paul was convinced of this as am i) and what is His Love if it not Salvation for us?

Grace and Peace be ours in Jesus' Name. AMEN.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/7/1 17:09Profile









 Re:

I named Chambers. You named no one you plagerized.

 2007/7/1 17:25
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re: Yes, Once Saved, always saved

dear brothers and sisters,

many people (not all) think that once saved always saved means that one can profess Christ, make a decision, and then live like the world. that is NOT SALVATION, that is ANTINOMIANISM.

ANTINOMIANISM (quotes from spurgeon)

* if any man says "i trust in Jesus, therefore i will live as i like", that man's religion is vain; he has profaned the cross.

* the Lord has not ordained any man to eternal life with the provision that he may continue in his sin.

*of all the judgements surely that will be the heaviest which shall come upon the man who dared to take the doctrine of the cross as a reason for careless living.

* many would like to be saved from the punishment due to sin and yet be allowed to go on in sin, but there is NOTHING of THAT kind of teaching in the scripture.

that is not the doctrine of the perseverence of the saints. that is antinomianism. that is totally unscriptural. if anyone's view of OSAS is with that in mind, please understand that you have a wrong idea of what we who believe that a truly born again believer will not lose their salvation are trying to reason from the scriptures.

love you guys.

 2007/7/1 17:34Profile









 Re:

For the benefit of those who may have missed reading this from me, I post it again with the hope that it will resonate with some and bring freshness to their experience in Christ Jesus:

Let’s try to establish when the beginning was.

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
In him was life; and the life was the light of men." John 1:1-4 (KJV)

"He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.......". 1 John 3:8 (NKJV)

"According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world,....." Ephesians 1:4 (KJV)

We can see from the above verses that the beginning was before this world ever came into existence. The last verse declares we, who are the "saints and [those] faithful in Christ", were chosen at that very same time (Vs.1)

[Emphasis added]

I believe all mankind was observed by God at that very same time else how could He make His selection[s]. "Jacob I loved, Esau, I hated".

This is often argued/debated by them who have been persuaded that the part, redemption, is the whole of the message and reason for Christ coming to Earth. I have been persuaded otherwise simply because the scriptures testify to there being more to the message found in Jesus Christ than the salvation message and apart from the understanding of the whole of it, the Gospel will not sustain. Good folk are left with no revelation and consequently, no vision ... and no passion; no clear definition as to what "suffering for Christ", "living in Him", actuality means but rather embracing some other short-sighted understanding that leaves one devoid of the Faith of the Son of God..

"My people perish for lack of knowledge”….. “Where there is no vision the people break loose, become unrestrained”(Hos.4.6) (Prov.29.18)

Carefully consider this passage:

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.
And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaks unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
For whom the Lord loves he chastens, and scourges every son whom he receives.
If ye endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chastens not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.' Hebrews 12:1-8 (KJV)

Again, speaking as from the "beginning" Paul says this:

"For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. ["Revelation truth, vision, passion"]
For both he that sanctifies and they who are sanctified are all of one for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren," Hebrews 2:10-11 (KJV)

"He that says he abides in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked." 1 John 2:6 (KJV) *[In His Flesh]"Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God Therefore the world knows us not, because it knew him not." 1 John 3:1 (KJV) So much for the “CEO”, modern/post modern, church.

Properly understanding this, one must conclude heaven is no longer the goal for that one, "faithful in Christ", but rather, becoming like Him, as He was in His flesh, as being the intention of the Father He desires for us to understand and participate in. It is to recognized as the process of the "way of the cross". Not only for Adam was it given that he become "Christ filled", which he declined, but is now to all his offspring to enjoin.

We must understand that Jesus restored us to the human condition, before the fall. Where Adam had no hope for himself, or for his offspring, for forgiveness of his Sin for no man could be found worthy, because of Calvary we now do. We now have an advocate with the Father, Christ Jesus, Adam could only hope for and died waiting. The shed Blood for Adam's transgression that would “make all things new” would not come for another four thousand years.

It was Father's intention, from the beginning, to fill the Earth with His Glory. Adam was to have begun the process of “Actualizing” the “Reality of the Father’s Heart”; the intention of Himself that would be summed up in Christ, filling the whole Earth in human form. When Adam transgressed, his transgression did not stop the process except now the Earth would be filled with corrupted seed to await redemption/reconciliation and restoration to what Father's original intention was to be about..... for the Christ of Himself.

Jesus, the last Adam, the only begotten of the Father in whom we move and have our being because we were begotten “with” Him from the beginning and now are begotten again [see 1 Peter 1.3 KJV];Jesus, the “First of First Fruits”, accomplished the mission that we now, can and must accomplish ours if we are to participate in “Join-heir-ship”. ” "[i]For it became Him, [Christ] for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation [Jesus] perfect through sufferings. [Revelation Truth, Joy, Vision, Passion] For both he that sanctifies and they who are sanctified are all of one for which cause he is not ashamed to call them [us] brethren” Hebrews 2:10-11 (KJV) …If we indeed be willing to suffer as He suffered in His Flesh.

If it can be`seen that the message of the Gospel is God centered and not man centered, i.e., that we simply benefit from His ultimate intention, the Bible will read differently. For one who is devoid of the complete understanding of the message of the gospel, he will not understand what suffering for Christ entails nor what it is meant to produce in us, for God.


[Emphasis added]


 2007/7/1 18:15
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear ormly,

i appreciate you posting that again. i do believe that we need to see the eternal purpose of God and understand that salvation is simply part (albeit a huge part) of the ultimate plan of God. His desire is that we see that He wants to sum all things up in Christ. Christ is the center and the focus of it all.

my only disagreement is that i don't believe that we are restored to what adam was before the fall. he may have walked with God, but he did not have God living and dwelling within him. He did not have the Spirit of the living God causing him to walk in His ways and in His paths.

love you guys.

 2007/7/1 18:36Profile









 Re:

Quote:

LoveHim wrote:
dear ormly,

i appreciate you posting that again. i do believe that we need to see the eternal purpose of God and understand that salvation is simply part (albeit a huge part) of the ultimate plan of God. His desire is that we see that He wants to sum all things up in Christ. Christ is the center and the focus of it all.

my only disagreement is that i don't believe that we are restored to what adam was before the fall. he may have walked with God, but he did not have God living and dwelling within him. He did not have the Spirit of the living God causing him to walk in His ways and in His paths.

love you guys.



Thanks Phil. Indeed, We do have more.

 2007/7/1 19:06









 Re:

My friends in Christ,
I don't know what (Revelation truth, vision, passion) is that these comments are coming from, but here is what the Bible teaches:

2 Corinthians 3
18But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord,(the risen Christ) are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. Jesus said in John 17, " The Glory you have given me, I have given them. But remember in the beginning of John 17, Jesus Clearly says, V 5 AND NOW oh Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the Glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus, NOW GLORIFIED is changing us into who He is, not who he was. We can never be as Jesus was in the flesh...Fully God, Fully man, sinless, born of a virgin..we are not here to take upon us the sin of the world.

1 John 3
1 Behold what manner of love the Father has bestowed on us, that we should be called children of God. Therefore the world does not know us because it did not know Him. 2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

We are not individual little gods. We have imputed righteousness, not evolving righteousness. Please oh please know the difference. Just because something sounds high and lofty doesn't mean it is spiritual truth. No only is satan high and lofty, but very crafty as well. A little leaven ruins the whole lump! Leaven is false doctrine, that puffs itself up.

Beware of false teachers.

Love in Christ
Katy-did

;-)

 2007/7/1 20:00
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear katy-did,

with all due respect, i do not know who on here said that we were little gods. i re-read the post by ormly and i seen where he said that we should walk as Jesus walked (1 john 2:6). but as for being little gods, i didn't see it.

it is God's purpose for us (believers) that we should be conformed to the image of His Son. that is what we were predestined for. that is why we have the Spirit, that we may know Him more in His resurrection and in the fellowship of sharing in His sufferings.

like you said, when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.

love you guys.

 2007/7/1 20:50Profile









 Re:

Hi Phil,

When one says:
1. We become as Jesus Christ was in the flesh/ and
2. That we are being restored back to what we were before the fall, knowing that doctrine is what Mormons, JW's and many cults believe, mingled with evolving into sonship... this is all cult teaching, mingles with truth.

What you all may not understand is those who know the lingo of cult teaching, can pick up on these things that go over the heads many are not familiar with.

In this day and age many are already being deceived even to the point of thinking Mormons are Christians. They use all the same words, lingo etc. But it's not the same.

We are not to be tossed to and frow with every wind of doctrine that comes along.

***That is a COMMAND not an option.

There is:
One Body
One Spirit
*ONE* hope of your calling
One Lord
One Faith
One Baptism
One God and Father of all who is above all, and in you all.


What more can I say.

Love in Christ
May HE keep your hearts and minds pure until the day we shall be with Him.

Katy-did :-)

 2007/7/1 21:19





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