SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Access over 100,000+ Sermons from Ancient to Modern
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | 86 | 87 Next Page )
PosterThread
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear ormly,

i see what you're saying. that in reality it is mine, but i am still waiting for the future actuality of it. to that i say yes. like i said earlier, there is a present adoption and sonship when the Spirit comes into our lives to live and dwell in us, but there is also a future aspect of it that will be revealed in the last days.

am i getting what you're talking about??

 2007/6/30 17:28Profile









 Re:

Quote:

LoveHim wrote:
dear ormly,

i see what you're saying. that in reality it is mine, but i am still waiting for the future actuality of it. to that i say yes. like i said earlier, there is a present adoption and sonship when the Spirit comes into our lives to live and dwell in us, but there is also a future aspect of it that will be revealed in the last days.

am i getting what you're talking about??



[i]"But as many as received him, to them [b] He gave power to become[/b] the sons of God,..."[/i]John 1:12 (KJV)

There is no present adoption. Adoption comes when we learn the Character of the Father. That is what the tutoring of the Holy Spirit is for, to groom us for eternity: [i]"... the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, ........"[/i] John 14:26 (KJV) --- See also John 20.22]

Try this out in your thinking:


July 28th

[b]After obedience—what?[/b]

[i]And straightway He constrained His disciples to get into the ship, and to go to the other side. . . .[/i] Mark 6:45-52.


We are apt to imagine that if Jesus Christ constrains us, and we obey Him, He will lead us to great success. We must never put our dreams of success as God’s purpose for us; His purpose may be exactly the opposite. We have an idea that God is leading us to a particular end, a desired goal; He is not. The question of getting to a particular end is a mere incident. What we call the process, God calls the end.
What is my dream of God’s purpose? His purpose is that I depend on Him and on His power now. If I can stay in the middle of the turmoil calm and unperplexed, that is the end of the purpose of God. God is not working towards a particular finish; His end is the process—that I see Him walking on the waves, no shore in sight, no success, no goal, just the absolute certainty that it is all right because I see Him walking on the sea. It is the process, not the end, which is glorifying to God.
God’s training is for now, not presently. His purpose is for this minute, not for something in the future. We have nothing to do with the afterwards of obedience; we get wrong when we think of the afterwards. What men call training and preparation, God calls the end.
God’s end is to enable me to see that He can walk on the chaos of my life just now. If we have a further end in view, we do not pay sufficient attention to the immediate present; but if we realize that obedience is the end, then each moment as it comes is precious.

Chambers, Oswald: My Utmost for His Highest : Selections for the Year. Grand Rapids, MI : Discovery House Publishers, 1993, c1935, S. July 28

The process of becoming a son is what our present day is to be about.

 2007/6/30 17:47
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Phil wrote:


Quote:

" my confidence is in my God and His ability to carry out the promises that He said He would do.

He is faithful."

Ormly wrote:

Quote:

"Oh how you wish all of that was "actually" so."

It is so to those that have the witness in themselves.


Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

1Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

These three bear witness for those that are in Christ; The Spirit of Christ in them, the washing of the water with the Word, The Blood shed that leads all who believe to the birthing of Christ in them and eternal salvation. All three point Him, "Jesus Christ that is in us the Hope of Glory"

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son

This is the record: 1 John 5:9-13 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. ((((And this is the record,)))) that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

I pray this is true for all who believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

In Christ: PHillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/6/30 19:15Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
Phil wrote:


Quote:

" my confidence is in my God and His ability to carry out the promises that He said He would do.

He is faithful."

Ormly wrote:

Quote:

"Oh how you wish all of that was "actually" so."

It is so to those that have the witness in themselves.


Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

1Jo 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

These three bear witness for those that are in Christ; The Spirit of Christ in them, the washing of the water with the Word, The Blood shed that leads all who believe to the birthing of Christ in them and eternal salvation. All three point Him, "Jesus Christ that is in us the Hope of Glory"

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son

This is the record: 1 John 5:9-13 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. ((((And this is the record,)))) that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

I pray this is true for all who believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

In Christ: PHillip



Please don't misrepresent my words....or mis-apply them.

 2007/6/30 19:36
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

"""His purpose is for this minute, not for something in the future. We have nothing to do with the afterwards of obedience; we get wrong when we think of the afterwards. What men call training and preparation, God calls the end.
God’s end is to enable me to see that He can walk on the chaos of my life just now. If we have a further end in view, we do not pay sufficient attention to the immediate present; but if we realize that obedience is the end, then each moment as it comes is precious.

Chambers, Oswald: My Utmost for His Highest : Selections for the Year. Grand Rapids, MI : Discovery House Publishers, 1993, c1935, S. July 28

The process of becoming a son is what our present day is to be about"""

Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Rom 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time [are] not worthy [to be compared] with the glory which shall be revealed in us

This is our future, Praise God.

Hebrews 12:24-29 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God is a consuming fire.

If not an end then why a beginning? Our End is looking forward to the Kingdom that God has prepared for those that are in Christ Jesus. We will be learning the end through out all eternity. Our end for this present NOW, is knowing we are seated in Christ Jesus in Heavenly places in Him, that we might attain the Kingdom prepared for us as son's of the lIving God through His Son the only begotten of the Father.

The end; God wants son's in His House.

You are right Katy-did. Pure humanism and new age belief, with liberalism and modernism. Whether you wrote it or not, matters not but the content and truth of what was written. That is your heart and mine and all those that are trusting in Christ for NOW and the Future Kingdom.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/6/30 19:38Profile









 Re:

Quote:
You are right Katy-did. Pure humanism and new age belief, with liberalism and modernism. Whether you wrote it or not, matters not but the content and truth of what was written. That is your heart and mine and all those that are trusting in Christ for NOW and the Future Kingdom.

In Christ: Phillip



"Sinless perfection", to be sure of maybe its "Dominionism" or perhaps the "Manifest Sons of God" I speak of? On the other hand "Purpose Driven" with a little "Devinci code" thrown in for good measure?----- :roll:

 2007/6/30 20:06
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear ormly,

you confuse me. you say that there is no present adoption, yet the bible is filled with the fact that those who are in Christ have become sons of God. (present tense). we who are converted, have the witness of the Spirit and are being led by the Spirit have become sons of God.

galatians 4:4-7 "but when the fulness of time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,

v5- to redeem those under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

v6- and because you ARE sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out ABBA Father!

v7- therefore you are no longer a slave but a SON, and if a SON, then an heir of God through Christ.

gal 3:26 for you are all SONS of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

rom 8:14-16 for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these ARE SONS of God.

v15- for you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of ADOPTION by whom we cry out ABBA Father.

v16- The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we ARE CHILDREN of God.

i don't understand that you say that there is no present adoption.. does the scripture not clearly say that those who have received the Spirit of God have been adopted. this present adoption is a foretaste of the adoption to be revealed.

if you disagree with me or others, please do more than just quote us and then write a sentence in response. please lay out what you are trying to say so that simple people like me can understand what you are saying.

thanks, love you guys.

 2007/6/30 22:30Profile









 Re:wow

Haven't been to this thread since page ? and couldn't figure what was keeping it going ... :-D ... now I see, said the half-blind lady. Very Good !

Came on to post a message, not knowing much of it is already going on here.

Hope it's O.K. if I put it here anyways, even if I was unaware of what was happening on this thread since I dropped off. Praise GOD!
Hope it's not off target here .... but I'll just post it and run ... and enjoy the rest of this thread in silence. Lord Bless you guys!

I just love this guy - too ...

[b]THE GREAT PRIZE

T. Austin-Sparks

Reading: Philippians 3:1-16[/b]

THE Philippian letter begins with Paul's statement, "For to me to live is Christ", and then goes on to express his ambition to know the Lord more and more, with his determination to pursue that knowledge as a coveted prize. If we desire to know what is meant by gaining Christ we have to turn to Romans 8:29, where we find that God's intention is that we should be conformed to the image of His Son. This being conformed is gaining Christ, this is the prize; it involves an attaining unto the fulness of Christ in moral perfection, which is to be the glory in which God's sons will be manifested. It is simply this, that to come to be morally and spiritually one with Christ in His place of exaltation is the goal and prize of the Christian life. We do well to keep in view this glorious end, "the manifestation of the sons of God".

When Paul spoke of gaining Christ and of reaching out for the prize, he was expressing his earnest longing to be conformed to the image of God's Son. This is something which is the issue of salvation, it is God's end in salvation, but it is clearly something which needs to be pursued. It is plain that we do not have to win salvation, and we certainly do not have to suffer the loss of all things to be saved. We are saved by faith, not by works, salvation is not a prize to be won, not something for which we must reach forward, but a present, free gift. Beyond this, however, Paul still aspired to heights as yet unreached, and he wrote that he counted all things as loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus his Lord. If the power of the same Spirit is working in us, this will surely produce the same effect of making us realise how little is the worth of everything else compared with the great prize of Christ.

[b]THE SUPREME ISSUE[/b]

It is interesting to compare Mark 10 with Philippians 3, as each passage tells of a young man and his momentous decision. The two men were very similar in many respects, they were both rich rulers, men of high standing socially, intellectually, morally and religiously among their own people. They were probably both Pharisees, and were both loved by the Lord. Of the one it had to be said "One thing thou lackest", while the other could affirm "One thing I do". The nameless young man turned away from Christ; he did so sorrowfully but nevertheless he did it, and the reason was that he was not prepared to part with his great possessions. Paul had great possessions also, but they lost all their attractiveness in the light of the vision which he had of Christ; to him it was the alternative of earthly prizes or the one great heavenly prize, and he gladly made his choice of the latter.

There is a sense in which we may say that he had a great advantage and a different vision of Christ, for he saw the Lord in the full power of resurrection. He not only saw Jesus of Nazareth as the young ruler did, but he was able to appreciate something of the exceeding greatness of God's power in raising from the dead this One who, despised and rejected of men, had on the cross been reduced to helplessness and apparent despair only to be lifted from death and the tomb and exalted to the right hand of the majesty on high. It was resurrection power which made Paul decide to pursue the prize. [1/2]

[b]THE POWER OF HIS RESURRECTION[/b]

That which makes everything possible in the spiritual life is the fact that the same resurrection power which raised Christ to His heavenly goal is the power that works in us (Ephesians 3:20). While it is true that our justification rests upon the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, the whole scope of that resurrection goes far beyond the realm of personal salvation, for its power is the means whereby all the realisation of God's eternal thought may be accomplished. Probably one of the greatest needs of our time -- which I believe to be the end time -- is for a fuller experimental knowledge of resurrection life, for the final triumph of the Church with its ultimate breakthrough to the throne, with the consequent dispossession of the satanic kingdom, can only be achieved by this means. This life is something which has met all the evil power of the universe, and proved that it cannot be touched or corrupted, so that morally as well as physically it is the life which has triumphed over death.

Resurrection life is not some abstract idea or mystical sensation, but it is a very practical expression of victory over sin and Satan. If this life could be tainted or corrupted then Satan would have won the ultimate victory, but there is no fear of such a tragedy, for the life of Christ is that which has fully and finally conquered death; and inasmuch as His resurrection life has placed Him in an unassailable position, "far above all", it is destined to bring His Church through to share His victory and His throne. So, in his quest for the prize, Paul first mentions his need of knowing "the power of His resurrection".

I believe that this attitude of Paul's tests our own knowledge of Christ. I cannot understand how a Christian who really knows the indwelling of the resurrection life of Christ can hang on to things, having a controversy with the Lord about the letting go of this and that, when the alternative is full abandonment to Christ. What should settle all disputes and questions is the realisation of the royal nature of our high calling in Christ, and the determination to let nothing stand between us and the full outworking of His resurrection life.

[b]THE FELLOWSHIP OF HIS SUFFERINGS[/b]

Paul's pursuit of the prize made him desire not only to know Christ in the power of His resurrection, but also to be ready to enter into suffering for and with Him. This puts suffering in its right place, and relates it to a leading on to glory. Very often suffering gets out of its place with us, and so causes us trouble by being the thing which pre-occupies us and blots out everything else. The Lord would have us see suffering in its right place, that is in relation to something which should make the suffering very much smaller in our estimation than it would otherwise be. "I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed", that glory being the glory of the children of God. It was this glory which Paul described as the great prize of gaining Christ.

If we ask what it means to gain Christ we have to consider Romans 8, where we find that God's intention is that we should be conformed to the image of His Son. This being conformed to Christ is really gaining Christ: this is the prize. It involves an attaining unto the fullness of Christ in moral perfection; for this moral and spiritual perfection is His glory. So for us the simple issue is that to come to be spiritually and morally where Christ is in His place of exaltation is the goal, the prize. We do well to keep in view this glorious end, "the manifestation of the sons of God", when we shall be revealed with Christ and made like to Him. For the present we groan, and if we can truly analyse our groanings we may discover that they represent our longing for deliverance from the old creation life, with its bondage to corruption, sin and death, so that we may know moral perfection in Christ. One day the groanings will cease, and that will be the moment of our arrival at perfect conformity to Christ.

This is what God foreordained, for we notice that God's work in a groaning creation is related to foreknowledge, and therefore to His fore-ordination. Such predestination was not connected with the simple matter of salvation, but rather with the issue of salvation. This makes all the difference. The issue of salvation is conformity to the image of God's Son, for whom He foreknow He also foreordained, not to be saved or lost but to be "conformed to the image of His Son". The work of the Spirit of His Son in us, constituting us as sons and enablings us to cry "Abba, Father", is the commencement of God's work in the groaning creation, the work of securing in secret those sons who will provide the key to its deliverance from the whole state of vanity or disappointment which obtains at present. The whole creation is to be delivered into the enjoyment of the liberty of the glory of God's children, for this is to be the issue of the power of resurrection working in us. We [2/3] are linked in our very sonship with the whole creation's emancipation from the vanity imposed upon it. But note, the creation is not only to be delivered at the time of the manifestation, but is to take its character from Christ revealed in the sons of God. It can only find its true glory when the power of Christ's resurrection has had full expression in the glorification of God's sons as they receive their redeemed bodies, made like to His.

You may feel that this vast conception does not help you very much when you come up against personal difficulties, but it is for this very thing that Romans 8:28 links such practical experiences with the whole range of God's purpose in Christ. That calling and purpose govern every detail of our spiritual history. If, of course, we take things as purely personal incidents, then we cannot find any good in them, whereas if we appreciate their relation to God's determination to make us Christlike, then we have the clue as to their meaning. This is more than personal, inasmuch as the trial, difficulty, perplexity or provocation holds the secret of developing in us the life of the Lord Jesus, the resurrection life which carries with it the ultimate issue of God, which is the glorification of the whole universe. The New Testament is very practical, the vast things of the eternities are brought down into the most intimate details of our spiritual life, so making all things work together. These "all things" will be made to contribute to ultimate good provided they are considered in the light of divine purpose. God's meaning must not be missed. It may seem that we suffer contradiction; we ask for one thing and get just the opposite; but this is because God is not relieving us of responsibility, but using the contrary experiences to draw out and develop in us that moral strength which only the Holy Spirit can provide.

[b]CONFORMITY TO HIS DEATH[/b]

It was the Holy Spirit who made Paul write things in this order, first the power of His resurrection, then the fellowship of His sufferings, and finally the being made conformable to His death, but in fact we can only know the power of His resurrection by sharing with Him in this experience of death which involves the setting aside of everything that is personal in order to make the things of Christ our only objective. Is it not true that the basic, foundation sin is pride? And what is pride, this root sin? Really it consists of personal interests, self will and self seeking. This was how sin entered God's universe at the beginning, for Satan fell when he said, "I will exalt my throne.... I will be like the Most High", and subsequently he persuaded Adam to grasp at the opportunity of being "like God" (Genesis 3:5), so causing self interest to enter the human race. Such pride is native to us all, and only a practical experience of conformity to Christ in His death can deliver us from it.

Satan's continual attempts to work on our self interest are so subtle that he will even seem to patronise Christ if he can do so in a way which will ensnare God's servants. It was in Philippi, the city to which this letter was directed, that one of his demons publicly proclaimed that Paul was a servant of the most high God who was showing men the way of salvation. What more could Paul have wished for? Here was free publicity! Well, the fact is that we may be sure that there is some subtle plan of the devil when he begins to patronise the Gospel and make its preachers popular. The apostle realised this, and having waited on God he rebuked the demon, with results which seemed calamitous for him and Silas, for it brought them into prison with all hell raging against them. Paul, however had been delivered from a satanic trap even though he was in prison, and although for the moment he was being conformed to Christ in a new experience of His death, this inevitably brought him a new experience of God's resurrection power. He lived to write back to these Philippians from a prison in another city, and was able to assure them once more that the things which had happened to him had turned out for the furtherance of the Gospel. When human ideas, preferences and desires are set aside, it may involve deprivation for the moment, but as self interest goes down into death Christ is given a new place in our lives and we get nearer and nearer to our great prize.

[b]CHRIST MAGNIFIED[/b]

It seems clear that as the apostle moved towards the end of his life he was pressing ever more eagerly towards the prize of likeness to Christ. I believe that it is a point of real advance when we come to the place where we can live without the thrill of outward signs of success or obvious miracles, and can be perfectly happy with the Lord Himself. What I have in my heart is that you and I may come more and more to the place where the Lord Jesus Himself is everything to us. We do not seek even conformity to Him for its own sake or for our satisfaction, but only that He may find joy as we move closer to Him. This is the mark of spiritual growth and maturity, to desire only that Christ may be magnified, and to press on resolutely to this objective. "Christ is the path, and Christ the prize!" [3/4]

http://www.austin-sparks.net/mags/ttm01-1.html

 2007/6/30 22:35









 Re:

Quote:

LoveHim wrote:
dear ormly,

you confuse me. you say that there is no present adoption, yet the bible is filled with the fact that those who are in Christ have become sons of God. (present tense).
Quote:


Always in th epresent tense is it stated. That is the "reality" side of the issue. However, the "actuality" side is still to be worked out. Are you a saint? Yes, you would say. Are you faithful in Christ? Well, I try to be, you might say or I thinking I am or sometimes I'm not. My question to you then would be, "why not"? Isn't that the truth of it? Everyone in Christ is somewhere on the graph of the progress chart, to be sure. No one has arrived and if in Christ, should be striving. "The violent take it by force.".
What do believe maturing in Christ is for? The acuality of adoption will be in that day when we see Him. In the meantime we are to "press on to the high mark/calling that is in Christ Jesus" otherwise, what is Paul speaking of when writing such words?

Quote:
.....we who are converted, have the witness of the Spirit and are being led by the Spirit have become sons of God.



To "have become", you say or "to become"?

Quote:
galatians 4:4-7 "but when the fulness of time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law,

v5- to redeem those under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.



"might" is the operative word here. Do you see it?

Quote:
v6- and because you ARE sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying out ABBA Father!

v7- therefore you are no longer a slave but a SON, and if a SON, then an heir of God through Christ.



The "prodigal" was`a son. What did he have to learn? I already stated we we are sons.... by receiving the Nature of the Father. Now is given that we are to learn His Character by being handed over the tutorship of the Holy Spirit for that purpose. The lesson course is titled, "The Way of the Cross"..

Quote:
gal 3:26 for you are all SONS of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

rom 8:14-16 for as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these ARE SONS of God.



Yes. Through your faith in Him, that is so. That's the reality. If you are allowing yourself to be led, that would be the acuality, the working out of your salvation; the way of the cross; the dying to your - self nature that He might be exalted through your life. Alll this is meant for NOW...not later.

Quote:
v15- for you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of ADOPTION by whom we cry out ABBA Father.

v16- The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we ARE CHILDREN of God.



Children or son's, which is it?

Quote:
i don't understand that you say that there is no present adoption.. does the scripture not clearly say that those who have received the Spirit of God have been adopted. this present adoption is a foretaste of the adoption to be revealed.



Indeed, all who have received the Spirit of God have, in reality, been adopted. The question that needs be asked is do you have the Spirit if God? If so, you will manifest it.

Quote:
if you disagree with me or others, please do more than just quote us and then write a sentence in response. please lay out what you are trying to say so that simple people like me can understand what you are saying.



I believe I have done that.

Given a Nature > to learn a Character.
Born a Child > to become a Son.

Simple as that. Even in our natural lives with our children is it so.

 2007/7/1 3:42









 Re:


Perhaps this from Chmbers will be help to someone:

[b]Unquestioned revelation

[i]And in that day ye shall ask Me nothing[/i]. John 16:23.[/b]

When is “that day”? When the Ascended Lord makes you one with the Father. In that day you will be one with the Father as Jesus is, and “in that day,” Jesus says, “ye shall ask Me nothing.” Until the resurrection life of Jesus is manifested in you, you want to ask this and that; then after a while you find all questions gone, you do not seem to have any left to ask. You have come to the place of entire reliance on the resurrection life of Jesus which brings you into perfect contact with the purpose of God. Are you living that life now? If not, why shouldn’t you?

There may be any number of things dark to your understanding, but they do not come in between your heart and God. “And in that day ye shall ask Me no question”—you do not need to, you are so certain that God will bring things out in accordance with His will. John 14:1 has become the real state of your heart, and there are no more questions to be asked. If anything is a mystery to you and it is coming in between you and God, never look for the explanation in your intellect, look for it in your disposition, it is that which is wrong. When once your disposition is willing to submit to the life of Jesus, the understanding will be perfectly clear, and you will get to the place where there is no distance between the Father and His child because the Lord has made you one, and “in that day ye shall ask Me no question.”


[b]Undisturbed relationship[/b]

Vs26, 27.
[b][i]“At that day ye shall ask in My name,” [/b][/i]

i.e., in My nature. Not— ‘You shall use My name as a magic word,’ but—‘You will be so intimate with Me that you will be one with Me.’ “That day” is not a day hereafter, but a day meant for here and now. “The Father Himself loveth you”—the union is so complete and absolute. Our Lord does not mean that life will be free from external perplexities but that just as He knew the Father’s heart and mind, so by the baptism of the Holy Ghost He can lift us into the heavenly places where He can reveal the counsels of God to us.

“Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in My name . . . .” “That day” is a day of undisturbed relationship between God and the saint. Just as Jesus stood unsullied in the presence of His Father, so by the mighty efficacy of the baptism of the Holy Ghost, we can be lifted into that relationship—“that they may be one, even as We are one.”

“He will give it you.” Jesus says that God will recognize our prayers. What a challenge! By the Resurrection and Ascension power of Jesus, by the sent-down Holy Ghost, we can be lifted into such a relationship with the Father that we are at one with the perfect sovereign will of God by our free choice even as Jesus was. In that wonderful position, placed there by Jesus Christ, we can pray to God in His name, in His nature, which is gifted to us by the Holy Ghost, and Jesus says—“Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in My name, He will give it you.” The sovereign character of Jesus Christ is tested by His own statements.

Chambers, Oswald: My Utmost for His Highest : Selections for the Year. Grand Rapids, MI : Discovery House Publishers, 1993, c1935, S. May 29

Chambers, Oswald: My Utmost for His Highest : Selections for the Year. Grand Rapids, MI : Discovery House Publishers, 1993, c1935, S. May 28

 2007/7/1 6:31





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy