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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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PosterThread
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

brother ormly,

there is no doubt that for those who are truly born again, there is much scripture on pressing on.. i don't know of anyone who will disagree with you on that. the question that we have to ask is "is that person truly converted"??

there are many examples of people who look like believers, but in the end showed or made manifest that they were not in the faith (judas, multitude in john 6 and john 8, simon in acts).
the bible shows places where these following Christ believe on Him, but the rest of the chapter show that it was a false faith and a false belief (john6 and 8).

we want to take anyone who says they believe on Christ and make them a christian and that's not biblical. people became christains when they were converted and understood that to be a disciple is to forsake all and follow Him. Jesus showed us this in the gospels (rich young man, luke 9, luke 14)

the true test of a professing person is what kind of fruit does their life bear over a good length of time. i will treat a professing believer as a brother and sister but i believe that their faith will find them out (whether true or false). it will become manifest over time whether they were just following Jesus because of miracles, healings, need a change in their life, or if they really have seen that He is all they need and are aware of their sinfulness and God's great love..

time is the great test.. in time we become as we really are. we get persecuted, rejected, and treated wrongly because of Christ in due time..
time will show whether it is good fruit from a good tree or bad fruit from a bad tree..

 2007/6/30 11:18Profile









 Re:

LoveHim, You wrote,

Quote:
"the true test of a professing person is what kind of fruit does their life bear over a good length of time. i will treat a professing believer as a brother and sister but i believe that their faith will find them out (whether true or false)".



You failed to mention the weak in faith. What fruit will they produce, if any? Are they not saved? Most believe to be saved one must be born again. I believe for one to be born again he/she must have revelation of Jesus Christ signifying Him choosing you and not you choosing Him.

The revelation of Him is the thing that "keeps". One will not fall back after seeing Him in that light. Indeed, all things become new. Therefore, is one saved by a simple acceptance of Christ as savior or not?

 2007/6/30 11:42









 Re:

Jeff said:

Quote:
This last Scripture you posted, was the promise of rest available to the generation that God led out of Egypt?



Jeff, are you saying when the Author was talking to Jews today in Hebrews...Today is the day of Salvation, using Hebrews 3&4 as an example and proclaiming the Finished work of Christ, that is not for today.

The Works "finished" from the foundation of the world....is what this is all about.

Blessed are those who die in the Lord from henceforth, who have "rested from **their** labors"....God knew from the foundation of the world who would follow Jesus Christ into death and resurrection life with Him....it is these who's names are written in the LAMBS book of LIFE.

Paul said, I am what I am by the Grace of God. Omley wants to be more than that, trying to achieve something he cannot. Why, because only the Overcomers are considered Sons. We overcome through the Blood of the Lamb...that my friends is the Covenant PROMISES in His Blood. Omley doesn't believe any of this or those promises, therefore, at this time, if he stays on this track will NEVER be an overcomer...in his own self effort, clawing his way to the top as he tramples God's heritage of those who are what they are by the Grace of God.

If I may humor Omley for a moment....If God already knew what you and who you were from the beginning, then why are you Mr. Clay saying to the Potter...why have you made me thus?

There is no scripture that says one achieves Sonship from Citizenship by scratching peoples eyes out as they achieve their way to the top.

God humbles the proud. Remember Satan who exalted himself..humble yourself under the hand of God, and He will lift you up...you cannot lift yourself up!!!

In Christ
Katy-did

 2007/6/30 12:44
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear brothers and sisters,

romans 8:14 "for as many as are led by the Spirit of God,these are sons of God"

8:15 "for you did not receivethe spirit of bondage again to fear, but you receieved the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out ABBA Father"

8:16 "the Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God"

8:17 "and if children, then heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may be glorified together"

is not the Holy Spirit the Spirit of adoption?? am i missing something?? if we are citizens of heaven (born again with the Spirit dwelling in us), then how are we not sons of God??

ps. and cain made manifest that he was not a child of promise, he was wicked and satan was not a new father, but was his father..

 2007/6/30 12:47Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

"osas" , "if a believer falls he was never a christian to start with" , "it is not possible for a true believer to depart from the faith", " the bible makes no provision for the one who is in christ to fall away".
All these statements are false.
All false doctrine starts from somwhere other than heaven.
Oswald chambers said,"always come from God to man,If I come from any other placeI am carrying death"
Why do we have false doctrine? The mind of man.My interpretation vs your interpretation.When I have my own doctrine to defend I must reconcile the whole of scripture. If I dont have an adequate explaination for my position I am asking my opposition to leap the grand canyon with me whenI take my next "scriptural" stance. Almost any concept can be backed scripturally.I can basically make the bible say anything i want it to.I am not amazed that people believe in osas. I am amazed that they KEEP believing in it.Lets take the WHOLE council of God , drop our pride,and admit we could be wrong. [we all walk a little sideways thats why we desperately need each other]
....David

 2007/6/30 12:58Profile









 Re:

Quote:

LoveHim wrote:
dear brothers and sisters,

romans 8:14 "for as many as are led by the Spirit of God,these are sons of God"

8:15 "for you did not receivethe spirit of bondage again to fear, but you receieved the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out ABBA Father"

8:16 "the Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God"

8:17 "and if children, then heirs of God and joint-heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may be glorified together"

is not the Holy Spirit the Spirit of adoption?? am i missing something?? if we are citizens of heaven (born again with the Spirit dwelling in us), then how are we not sons of God??

ps. and cain made manifest that he was not a child of promise, he was wicked and satan was not a new father, but was his father..



You are indeed a son by the new birth; you have been "begotten again". You have the nature of the Father by virtue of His supernatural seed implanted you, however, as is the custom, you are then handed over to head servant of the house [Holy Spirit] to be tutored in the ways [Character] of the Father. At some point in time you are then adopted by the Father who begot you. That's the way they did in the east. That is the pattern our Father uses.

 2007/6/30 13:00









 Re:

Quote:

psalm1 wrote:
"osas" , "if a believer falls he was never a christian to start with" , "it is not possible for a true believer to depart from the faith", " the bible makes no provision for the one who is in christ to fall away".
All these statements are false.
All false doctrine starts from somwhere other than heaven.
Oswald chambers said,"always come from God to man,If I come from any other placeI am carrying death"
Why do we have false doctrine? The mind of man.My interpretation vs your interpretation.When I have my own doctrine to defend I must reconcile the whole of scripture. If I dont have an adequate explaination for my position I am asking my opposition to leap the grand canyon with me whenI take my next "scriptural" stance. Almost any concept can be backed scripturally.I can basically make the bible say anything i want it to.I am not amazed that people believe in osas. I am amazed that they KEEP believing in it.Lets take the WHOLE council of God , drop our pride,and admit we could be wrong. [we all walk a little sideways thats why we desperately need each other]
....David



You apparently haven't read much of Oswald Chambers

 2007/6/30 13:02
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear ormly,

i know what you are saying. like the bar mitzpah is where a son is declared to be a son. is there not in that sense where in the kingdom when one is born-again, he is a son and child of God.. but there will also be a time when it will be revealed (like a bar mitzpah) that they are a "son" of God and co-heir in Christ. is there not a present sonship, but also a future sonship to be revealed in heaven??

in the jewish custom, what is a son called before the bar mitzpah (i am asking because i don't know)?? is he called a son or does he go by another name??

 2007/6/30 13:29Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear ormly,

when do you think that adoption happens to the believer??

the bible shows a past sense (eph1:4-5), a present sense (1john 3:2, gal 4:6), and a future sense (rom 8:23, 1 cor 15)..

that is why we have "the firstfruits of the Spirit (rom 8:23) and can taste the foretatses of our inheritance (eph 1:13-14).

 2007/6/30 13:39Profile









 Re:

If we are in Christ we are to be groomed for eternity. All of Paul's letters addressed to Christians is with that in mind. They are NOT about salvation, one's coming to Christ, in the context of his teaching. What does that say to you with regards to your asking is it for now or later?

 2007/6/30 14:10





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