SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Access over 100,000+ Sermons from Ancient to Modern
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | 86 | 87 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

Omley, You stated earlier

Quote:
But for the Christian it is no longer about redemption; heaven is no longer the goal...son-ship is, that is if he understands the gospel.




This is our goal:


Philippians 3

All for Christ

1 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. For me to write the same things to you is not tedious, but for you it is safe.2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! 3 For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit,[a] rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, 4 though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
Pressing Toward the Goal
12 Not that I have already attained, or am already perfected; but I press on, that I may lay hold of that for which Christ Jesus has also laid hold of me. 13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus. 15 Therefore let us, as many as are mature, have this mind; and if in anything you think otherwise, God will reveal even this to you. 16 Nevertheless, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule,[b] let us be of the same mind.
Our Citizenship in Heaven
17 Brethren, join in following my example, and note those who so walk, as you have us for a pattern. 18 For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: 19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things. 20 For our citizenship is in heaven, from which we also eagerly wait for the Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21 who will transform our lowly body that it may be conformed to His glorious body, according to the working by which He is able even to subdue all things to Himself.

In Christ
Katy-did

 2007/6/29 18:55









 Re:

My citizenship is already secured for me in Heaven, therefore it is no longer my goal.... However, for me, joint-heir-ship with Christ remains to be the issue. I press on toward that high mark in Him. Hope you are, too.

 2007/6/29 19:02









 Re:

Quote:
My citizenship is already secured for me in Heaven, therefore it is no longer my goal.... However, for me, joint-heir-ship with Christ remains to be the issue. I press on toward that high mark in Him. Hope you are, too.




Now I understand something you are saying here. Paul was reminding us as does my signature, that we are citizens of heaven. Ephesians already says we are seated with Him. We are already Co-heirs with Christ. Do you think there are different categories of Christians?
1.Co-heirs 2.Citizens

Look for a moment at Stephen. We don't know how long he was saved before He died. He wasn't an Apostle. We really don't know much about him except he was filled with the Holy Spirit, Prophesied to the Jews who rejected Jesus Christ and was stoned to death. Whether he came in at the 1st hour and died in that hour or the last hour it doesn't matter. Sonship, adoption, are c-heirs with Christ. There is no such thing as a second class Christian.

With that understanding I do understand much of what you are saying, ESPECIALLY after your last comment...it pulled it all together. The CHURCH is who is co-heirs with Christ. Christ is the Chruch, He is the head, and we are his body...bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh.

Paul tells us in Corinthians, no one can lay another foundation...Paul laid that foundation, and we build upon that faoundation, Gold, silver and precious stone....or wood hay and stubbble. Nothing in that text even suggests that there is some measuring stick to see who has the most Gold wins Co-heirship. Many Co-heirs will be ashamed for much of their works will burn....worldliness. But the Gold silver and precious stone is Christ in you and you doing those works he had from the foundation of the world.. we are *His* workmanship. Revelation 3 says, buy of me Gold, tried in the fire that you may be rich...that's the Gold to go for, because we don't organize our own firey trials, and then walk through them. Total surrender to those firey trials God has organized for you, and become obedient unto death in those trials. Yeah, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death...I will fear no evil, for thou art with me. Never forget!

In Christ
Katy-did :-)

 2007/6/29 19:40









 Re:

Quote:
Now I understand something you are saying here. Paul was reminding us as does my signature, that we are citizens of heaven. Ephesians already says we are seated with Him. We are already Co-heirs with Christ. Do you think there are different categories of Christians?
1.Co-heirs 2.Citizens



Well, I am glad you are able to understand what my position is. However, you are much to generous, in my opinion, in declaring all Christians joint-heirs in Christ. I don't find that to be the case and exploring Paul's writings, I believe will support my view.

Look at Eph.1.1 in the KJV. Paul makes a distinction worth investigating. See what you think.

 2007/6/29 20:12









 Re:

Ormly,

One last thought and then I need to go.

John 1:

11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the **sons of God**, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
KJV


Sonship, Co-heirs is based only on receiving Jesus Christ...Born of God, Born Again raised up together with Christ, a New Creation!

In Christ
Katy-did ;-)

 2007/6/29 20:14
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Ephesians 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

Will; Strong's Greek Dictionary
2307. thelema
Search for G2307 in KJVSL
qelhma thelema thel'-ay-mah
from the prolonged form of 2309; a determination (properly, the thing), i.e. (actively) choice (specially, purpose, decree; abstractly, volition) or (passively) inclination:-- desire, pleasure, will.

AS Of: (by the)--- "determination, the thing, choice, specially, purpose, decree, and abstractly, by the volition and passively in inclination of desire, pleasure, and will,"--- (will of God.)

Faithful; Strong's Greek Dictionary
4103. pistos
Search for G4103 in KJVSL
pistoV pistos pis-tos'
from 3982; objectively, trustworthy; subjectively, trustful:--believe(-ing, -r), faithful(-ly), sure, true.

From: Strong's Greek Dictionary
4102. pistis
Search for G4102 in KJVSL
pistiV pistis pis'-tis
from 3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:--assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.

The Faith of Jesus Christ, the truthfulness of God in reliance upon Jesus Christ for salvation. The system of the Gospel that Paul call my Gospel. Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

2Ti 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel

What is the revelation of the mystery?
Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Oh, that dirty word, "dispensation" Strong's Greek Dictionary
3622. oikonomia
Search for G3622 in KJVSL
oikonomia oikonomia oy-kon-om-ee'-ah
from 3623; administration (of a household or estate); specially, a (religious) "economy":--dispensation, stewardship.

The stewardship of, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory."

What do you see?

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/6/30 0:37Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:


dear ormely,

sorry, i can't say that i agree with you about the fact that all christians are not joint-heirs in Christ..

in eph 1:1 the kjv may say something that you COULD try to make a distinction, but the literal translation says "to the saints being in ephesus and faithful in Christ Jesus".

those who are called are predestined and those predestined, are justified and those who are justified, are glorified.

just my opinion looking at the Word..

 2007/6/30 0:38Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Katy-did wrote:
Ormly,

One last thought and then I need to go.

John 1:

11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the **sons of God**, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
KJV


Sonship, Co-heirs is based only on receiving Jesus Christ...Born of God, Born Again raised up together with Christ, a New Creation!

In Christ
Katy-did ;-)



Your perspective permits you to view it that way. I believe your perspective is wrong. Even by the scripture to post, its wrong. Your above says your understanding is wrong ------- you are not reading Bible and making good distinctions. Sorry, but they are my observations. :-(

 2007/6/30 4:10









 Re:

Quote:
"The Faith of Jesus Christ, the truthfulness of God in reliance upon Jesus Christ for salvation. The system of the Gospel that Paul call my Gospel. Rom 2:16 In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel."



A saint is what one becomes when he/she is born again; given the nature of God. We all know folk like that. We call them "babes in Christ". The "faithful in Christ" are those who embrace the way of cross from that point forward upon their new birth in Christ, "faithful" unto becoming a son: [i]"For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through *sufferings"[/i]. Hebrews 2:10 (KJV)

*[passion]


In your above, your use of the word "salvation" must be seen in all its inclusiveness; to mean that it is something having been placed in us is also that which is to be worked out by our wilfully entering into the process of the way of the cross, the learning to abandon our lives to the Father, through obedience, by the passion, through the revelation of Christ Jesus.. Pentecost, the coming upon of the Holy Spirit is for this purpose as much as anything else that happened on that day.

Please read what I wrote very carefully. Much scripture speaks of the necessity of our need to press in for the receiving of what Father desires for us [b]after[/b] one is born again. It's the "Pearl of great price".

 2007/6/30 4:32









 Re:

Sorry Phil. I see it differently.

We know that the faithful in Christ are saints.
Question: Are all the saints in your circle, faithful?

 2007/6/30 4:41





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy