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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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 Re:

Omley,
Romans 8:

18For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

24For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?

25But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.

26Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

31What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?

32He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

33Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


I understand this, but are you saying there is more? you make it sound like some great mystery. There will even be a New Heaven and Earth...All things become New.

In Christ
Katy-did




 2007/6/29 16:27









 Re:

Romans 11.25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits [opinion]

[Emphasis added]


"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory" 1 Corinthians 2:7 (KJV)

"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,........To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen." Romans 16:27 (KJV) Romans 16:25 (KJV)


Mystery you say??


"And to make all men see what is the [b]fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world [/b]hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ" Ephesians 3:9 (KJV)


Shall I go on??

 2007/6/29 16:49









 Re:

Ormly said:

Quote:
Romans 11.25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits [opinion]/quote]




Ormly
I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for reminding everyone about God's plan towards Israel....and for Gentiles not to be ignorant of this mystery.


PS: It is important never to take verses out of context to try to prove your point, having nothing to do with the original text. We get ourselves into massive trouble doing this.


Romans 11:
21For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.

24For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

25For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

In Christ
Katy-did

 2007/6/29 17:06









 Re:

Are you saying it doesn't apply to us...you in particular?

 2007/6/29 17:15









 Re:

Ormley, I think you are playing around here and I'm not playing with you anymore. You have jumped from one subject to another, won't answer my questions, but when I ask you a question to clarify, you throw up something like this, as if it is going to shame me or anyone else because we don't have your SPECIAL REVELATION KNOWLEDHE and VISIONS, using scripture out of context to make your point, then come back and say..does this not apply to you.

Cant play anymore Ormley. I don't play around with the Word of God that way...It may in His eyes be considered taking His name in vain!!! Yes, I do believe it is!!

Shalom!

 2007/6/29 17:25
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???

Quote:

Ormly wrote:
Romans 11.25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits [opinion]

[Emphasis added]


"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory" 1 Corinthians 2:7 (KJV)



Ormly, is it not given to us to know the mysteries, and the hidden wisdom?

Quote:
"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,........To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen." Romans 16:27 (KJV) Romans 16:25 (KJV)



Is not this mystery revealed to the Church?

[color=993300]Romans 16: 25. Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26. But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:[/color]

Quote:
"And to make all men see what is the [b]fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world [/b]hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ" Ephesians 3:9 (KJV)



We in Jesus and Jesus in us, from the beginning, yet also, by faith, do we continue in Him?

And if not in faith, our only true work, do we continue in Him?

Blessings,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/6/29 17:33Profile









 Re:

You haven't begun to address what I wrote. In fact you haven't even read it for understanding, so how can there a discussion? But you are doing me a favor. For that, I thank you.

 2007/6/29 17:39









 Re:

Quote:

UniqueWebRev wrote:
Quote:

Ormly wrote:
Romans 11.25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits [opinion]

[Emphasis added]


"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory" 1 Corinthians 2:7 (KJV)



Ormly, is it not given to us to know the mysteries, and the hidden wisdom?



Indeed, it is. How many know it who speak of redemption as being the whole message of Jesus Christ?

Quote:
"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,........To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen." Romans 16:27 (KJV) Romans 16:25 (KJV)



Is not this mystery revealed to the Church?


Indeed again. Show me the Church? Where is it that I might join in such a fellowship with those seeking the Father with all their heart, soul, mind and strength. Should this not be the Church who has the Mind of God, one that seeks to understand as Paul understood; one not by hung up on making heaven the goal??

[color=993300]Romans 16: 25. Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26. But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:[/color]

Quote:
"And to make all men see what is the [b]fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world [/b]hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ" Ephesians 3:9 (KJV)



Quote:
We in Jesus and Jesus in us, from the beginning, yet also, by faith, do we continue in Him?



Without a revelation of Him, without a vision as He had, what do you think?

Quote:
And if not in faith, our only true work, do we continue in Him?



For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at [in] us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God [the whole content of it]? And [b]if the righteous scarcely be saved[/b], where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 1 Peter 4:17,18 (KJV)

[Emphasis mine]

Blessings,

Forrest

 2007/6/29 17:54
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???


Ormly wrote:

Quote:

UniqueWebRev wrote:
Quote:

Ormly wrote:
Romans 11.25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits [opinion]

[Emphasis added]


"But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory" 1 Corinthians 2:7 (KJV)



Ormly, is it not given to us to know the mysteries, and the hidden wisdom?



Indeed, it is. How many know it who speak of redemption as being the whole message of Jesus Christ?

Quote:
"Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,........To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen." Romans 16:27 (KJV) Romans 16:25 (KJV)



Is not this mystery revealed to the Church?


Quote:
Indeed again. Show me the Church? Where is it that I might join in such a fellowship with those seeking the Father with all their heart, soul, mind and strength. Should this not be the Church who has the Mind of God, one that seeks to understand as Paul understood; one not by hung up on making heaven the goal??



I am the Church. You are the Church. All who seek in Christ, by faith, not only salvation, but victory in this life, an overcoming of self by the work of faith in us, are the Church.

Quote:
[color=993300]Romans 16: 25. Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
26. But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:[/color]



Quote:
"And to make all men see what is the [b]fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world [/b]hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ" Ephesians 3:9 (KJV)



We in Jesus and Jesus in us, from the beginning, yet also, by faith, we continue in Him.

In faith, our only true work, we continue in Him.

Quote:
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at [in] us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God [the whole content of it]? And [i]if the righteous scarcely be saved[/i], where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 1 Peter 4:17,18 (KJV)




And if not in faith, our only true work, to an establishment of Jesus in us, here on earth, day by day, HOW ELSE do we continue in Him?, not for salvation merely, but for Sonship, now, in Jesus?


Emphasis mine

Blessings,

Forrest



_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/6/29 18:28Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???

Orm,

I shall have to think on this, and get back to you after some sleep.

Blessings,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/6/29 18:31Profile





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