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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:

tjservant wrote:
Quote:
Who is the brethern he is talking to?



Quote:
I'm fairly sure that James was writing to a synagogue that may have had unbelievers in it. There were probably those that had not converted to Christ "among them."



I don't see how that effects what I posted, or what I said about it...would you explain?

Thank you.



Sure. He was writing to a synagogue, rather than a church. The synagogue would have some Jews that were converted and possibly some that were not. Those that were "among them" that may err from the truth, were not converted. At least that is what I see. I don't see anywhere in the Bible where you can be converted, unconverted, converted unconverted, ect.

By the way, so you know where I'm coming from, I believe you can be an apostate, so I do not believe in "once saved, always saved."


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2007/5/16 10:47Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Thanks PreachParsly

I thought it was talking about falling away from the truth...as in saved...then turning from it (apostate)

Thanks for explaining


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TJ

 2007/5/16 10:55Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
The reason that James survived at all in Jerusalem is that he did not abate one iota from the Law in practice, but taught that the works of the law should flow from Faith in Salvation through Grace, for after all, the Law was not a failsafe situation, and Jesus is.



I'll point out, just to save anyone from confusion that James never taught that to [i]Gentiles[/i]. I'm sure you know that, but I'll point it out for anyone else.
Act 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, [b]That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command [them] to keep the law of Moses.[/b]
Act 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

Act 15:13 And after they had held their peace, [b]James[/b] answered, saying, Men [and] brethren, hearken unto me:
Act 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
Act 15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,
Act 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
Act 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
Act 15:19 [b]Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:[/b]
Act 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and [from] fornication, and [from] things strangled, and [from] blood.
Act 15:21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.


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Josh Parsley

 2007/5/16 10:57Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:

tjservant wrote:
Thanks PreachParsly

I thought it was talking about falling away from the truth...as in saved...then turning from it (apostate)

Thanks for explaining



:-D I believed that way at one time also, until someone pointed it out to me.


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Josh Parsley

 2007/5/16 11:00Profile
JesusIsMyLrd
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Joined: 2005/10/28
Posts: 119
Iowa, USA

 Re:

JaySaved said:

Quote:
Psalm 69:28 (NASB), "May they be blotted out of the book of life And may they not be recorded with the righteous."



A look at the Hebrew word for "life" in this verse:

חי
chay
khah'ee
From H2421; alive; hence raw (flesh); fresh (plant, water, year), strong; also (as noun, especially in the feminine singular and masculine plural) life (or living thing), whether literally or figuratively: - + age, alive, appetite, (wild) beast, company, congregation, life (-time), live (-ly), living (creature, thing), maintenance, + merry, multitude, + (be) old, quick, raw, running, springing, troop.

It seems that it is saying the book of the "record of those alive on the earth"... not that they are in the book of life refered to in Revelation: see the emphasis on "flesh" in the defenition.

Also, remember that the NASB is based off of the "questionable" W&H manuscripts if i'm not mistaken... i'm not trying to open up another can of worms, but just something to consider...

It would seem (as was discussed in other comments) that God may have everyone in the book of life when they are born (hence if a child dies under the "age of accountability" they are not sent to hell), but when they make the choice to walk in their in-bread sin, they need the blood of Christ... i'm not sure on that one, but it's an interesting thought!!! :-(

God bless,
-nathan


_________________
Nathan

 2007/5/16 12:58Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Kentucky

 Re:

Quote:
It seems that it is saying the book of the "record of those alive on the earth"... not that they are in the book of life refered to in Revelation: see the emphasis on "flesh" in the defenition.



I see what you are saying, but they are both books of the 'living'. 'Book of Life' and 'Book of the living' are synonymous.

Quote:
Also, remember that the NASB is based off of the "questionable" W&H manuscripts if i'm not mistaken... i'm not trying to open up another can of worms, but just something to consider...



If I am not mistaken, our discussion is focused on Psalm 69 of the Old Testament. For the OT, the NASB is based on the Masoretic Text. Westcott & Hort is a New Testament edition of the Greek, not an OT. W&H has no bearing in this discussion.

Quote:
It would seem (as was discussed in other comments) that God may have everyone in the book of life when they are born (hence if a child dies under the "age of accountability" they are not sent to hell), but when they make the choice to walk in their in-bread sin, they need the blood of Christ... i'm not sure on that one, but it's an interesting thought!!!



It is an interesting thought. I have also though about the timing of the 'blotting out of the book'. (This is my opinion...I know that is dangerous) but it is possible the names of the unredeemed are blotted out of the book of life at death. What I mean is that once someone has died and they do not have the 'life of Christ' in them, they are completely dead and are taken out of the book of the living 'book of life'.

Just some thoughts.

 2007/5/16 13:18Profile
GraceAlone
Member



Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Re:

I guess you can say its just a little sad that this is an ongoing debate. I've posted this before and really opened up for questions to 1 john 3:6 but nobody says a response yet they continue debating. I guess I'd just like to give a little scriptural support for everyone who is confused.

I do understand that some discussion are different but they wouldn't be taking place if there was a clarification of the basis of the opinions. I guess I just wanted to post some verses for those who were interested :)



3 John 3:11
Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. He who does good is of God, but he who does evil has not seen God.

God bless!



Quote:

dorcas wrote:

GraceAlone,

I see you have posted exactly the same in another discussion. This is confusing and makes it look as if you haven't read the other discussion, which is about something slightly [i]different[/i].


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Kristy

 2007/5/16 14:59Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Quote:
I guess you can say its just a little sad that this is an ongoing debate. I've posted this before and really opened up for questions to 1 john 3:6 but nobody says a response yet they continue debating. I guess I'd just like to give a little scriptural support for everyone who is confused.

I do understand that some discussion are different but they wouldn't be taking place if there was a clarification of the basis of the opinions. I guess I just wanted to post some verses for those who were interested :)



Having a secondary post on the same matter does confuse things and is unecessary. A lot of things don't get a response and don't forget that you are also debating just by contributing. Furthermore a search here would reveal some very long previous postings on just this same issue.



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Mike Balog

 2007/5/16 15:35Profile
GraceAlone
Member



Joined: 2006/8/23
Posts: 232
Orlando, Florida

 Re:

Sometimes you just want to offer some help. Anyways, thers a different post so that it can stay out of the other blogs!

God Bless ya'll


_________________
Kristy

 2007/5/16 17:59Profile
JesusIsMyLrd
Member



Joined: 2005/10/28
Posts: 119
Iowa, USA

 Re:

Hey JaySaved

i just read your reply to my post earlier on in the discussion.

Thanks for the info on the W&H stuff. i was unaware of the other manuscripts involved there. Thanks!

i'm still a little unsure of what you ment here:

Quote:
I see what you are saying, but they are both books of the 'living'. 'Book of Life' and 'Book of the living' are synonymous.



Do you think you could explain a little more what you ment there?? and which hebrew words you are refering to?

Thanks so much for being gracious brother!

-nathan :-o


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Nathan

 2007/5/17 12:37Profile





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