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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Heb. 11:40 God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us. Revelation 6:10-11 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Rev 17:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled

The God's word will be written in their hearts.
Hbr 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them

They did not know the mystery, it was hidden. The only One that makes perfect is Christ in you.
Without Christ the old testament saints could not be perfect. So without us they won't either. We will be Raptured or caught up and be with the Lord forever, then they will be brought before the throne and they will be made perfect in Christ also. So goes the Millennial Kingdom, with Israel doing what God intended them to do when He made them the people of Israel Gods Chosen people to spread His Word to the whole word. We will be ruling and reigning with Christ, they will be Gods chosen People again.

Colossians 1:26-28 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/6/28 2:24Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Jeff wrote:

20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. 21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. 23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? 24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. 25 Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? 26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die. 27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. 28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die. 29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal? 30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin. 31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? 32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

Do you believe this Scripture?

Yes and it is pure Law and Not the Grace of God in Christ Jesus through Faith.

"You must turn yourselves and live"

Not believe in Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/6/28 2:35Profile









 Re:

Quote:
My whole point of this discussion is to show that Christ is in the OT. Christ also led the OT saints. Christ has always been the means of salvation for everyone who lives by faith.



Jeff,

In the OT Jesus Christ was referred to as The WORD.
Example: Prophets would say...The WORD of the Lord came unto me and said...

The Tabernacle is a perfect picture of Jesus Christ.

Do you see Christ in the Tabernacle?

The Tabernacle was built after a pattern of things to come. God told Moses EXACTLY how to build it. Everything in the Tabernacle points to Jesus Christ.

Why all the types and shadows, prophesies about the Messiah in the OT? He was to come from the seed and offspring of David...

Born of a virgin...

The OT is steeped with the WORD ....who became Flesh NT...the Messiah.


Now Jeff, The WORD was in the OT, The Word who became flesh in the NT fulfilling the prophesies of who He is.

I don't want to go here, but I have heard this argument before. If one could be indwelt with Jesus Christ in the OT, then Jesus didn't have to come and die on a cross...did He?

This is what 1st John is all about...anyone who denies Jesus Christ come in the Flesh is anti-Christ. The Spirit of Life in Christ...remember the Risen Christ indwells the believer. To claim one could have this before the cross, is called Gnostics. I know you are not that...I pray you are not. Just be careful here, it is bordering on Gnosticism. Much of what is being broadcasted today is WOF/Word of Knowledge/New Age teaching/Gnosticism that has permeated the Pure Gospel and the Christian Churches.

Love in Christ
Katy-did

;-)

 2007/6/28 6:45









 Re:

Quote:

Katy-did wrote:
Hebrews 10:
10By the which will we are *sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ ***once for all***.




*And are being sanctified
Note: "Once for all" is not found in the original text therefore it might be fair to conclude that Paul[?] here is speaking of them that are in the process of becoming; are in the "way of the cross". I suggest this because many confessors of Christ never enter the process of becoming a son, never begin their journey in the way of the cross unto perfection in Christ. I say this because what we might call the beginning, God calls the end. Therefore the process of becoming is the end, in God's perspective. His desire is to see us enter the process. Remember the 8 hrs. wages paid out to the one who only worked for 1 hour? Might it not apply here?

 2007/6/28 6:51









 Re:

Ormly,

I believe what the Author was saying here is also known as the "FINISHED WORK OF CHRIST". Once for all, means It is finished. Another place it says, He doesn't have to keep dying over and over. (You know what faith practices that?!?) and Nothing can be added or taken away from the perfect spotless sacrifice..Jesus Christ. In respect to the whole chapter, the author is letting these Jewish Christians?? or those still undecided that the animal sacrifice is done away. When going further down into the chapter the warning now is to Jews, because it is FINISHED, and not to:
Trample underfoot the Son of God
Count the Blood of the Covenant an unworthy thing
Or Insult the Spirit of Grace that is all wrapped up in the Finished Work of Christ. ....there is no more sacrifice for sin...it has been taken care of once and for all, no more year after year remembrance...I will remember no more.

This is a warning to us today as well. Those who add to or take away or substitute other doctrine calling it Grace are warned of God's vengence. This is not about losing your salvation as some pull out of context to scare.

I do like what you said about the Cross. Many fail to understand the New and Different way, through the veil, that is to say His flesh..I am Crucified with Christ is what the author is referring...we identify in His death and resurrection. Justified by His Blood, and SAVED by His life...His ***risen*** life. What did Paul say, If Christ isn't risen, we are altogether hopeless.

Thank you for your comments.

Love in Christ
Katy-did :-)

 2007/6/28 8:46









 Re:

Ormly,
I would also like to add these scriptures.


Hebrews 10:10
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” This is the “sanctification” or the setting apart of a “bride” for the “bridegroom”.

(John 17)

Jude 1:1
Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Hebrews 2:11
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren


Love in Christ
KAty-did ;-)

 2007/6/28 9:06









 Re:

Quote:

Katy-did wrote:
Ormly,
I would also like to add these scriptures.


Hebrews 10:10
By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.” This is the “sanctification” or the setting apart of a “bride” for the “bridegroom”.

(John 17)

Jude 1:1
Jude, the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

Hebrews 2:11
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren


Love in Christ
KAty-did ;-)



So what do you suppose all this to mean? Is it simply the message of redemption, perhaps some phase of it that we don't yet understand that needs explaining or is there more to the message of the gospel that we should all know about?

 2007/6/28 13:02









 Re:

Ormly,

I believe you already answered that question by saying ...(by the way was excellent!!!)

Quote:
I suggest this because many confessors of Christ never enter the process of becoming a son, never begin their journey in the way of the cross unto perfection in Christ. I say this because what we might call the beginning, God calls the end. Therefore the process of becoming is the end, in God's perspective. His desire is to see us enter the process. Remember the 8 hrs. wages paid out to the one who only worked for 1 hour? Might it not apply here?




When you said that one thing came to mind....We are *Complete* in Him, Alpha and Omega, First and Last, Beginning and End....He who has begun a good work in you WILL complete it until the Day of Jesus Christ.

But you would ask, where does God begin...and the answer I believe in Romans 6 and Romans 12:1&2. Total Surrender to the finished work of Christ on the Cross.

When I see the words, ONCE for ALL. I believe the ALL here means Whosoever will. 1st John clarifies this, not only for our sin but the sin of the whole world. Again this who so ever will is clarified again in John 17...and those who believe on me by their words...(meaning us who are saved, proclaiming the Gospel of Salvation...the Good News to a lost and dying world.)

For God so lived the World, that He gave His only begotten Son (on the Cross) that whosoever believes in Him....(believes is more than head knowledge...but believes the message of the Gospel that Jesus Himself proclaimed...to eat my flesh and drink my blood AKA identification with Christ in death and resurrection life...I am Crucified with Christ, Paul re-iterates the Message of Jesus Christ and what Saved by Grace means Galatians 2:20&21) Will not parish, but have eternal life.

Also note there is not an IF attached here.

Those who follow Jesus into death and resurrection life are raised up with Him Romans 8:11-13 fulfilling that promise of the Everlasting Covenant Hebrews 13:20&21. The same Spirit that raised up Christ will also give life to our mortal bodies...right now...we are Born Again, having the deposit of the Holy Spirit of PROMISE! Praise God.

Now remember what Paul said in Philippians 3...that I may KNOW Him...Jesus prayed this in John 17, and the fellowship of His sufferings...(those who suffer with Him will also be glorified together with Him..Romans 8) Those whom HE HAS JUSTIFIED, them He also Glorified..that's is a statement of FACT.

So if you have made genuine repentance, receiving Jesus Christ as you savior, YOU WILL PARTAKE OF THESE SUFFERINGS...That IS A FACT. and THIS IS WHAT THE SANCTIFICATION PROCESS IS ALL ABOUT....through these trials and tribulations, we are being conformed to His Image...from Glory to Glory... Read in 2 Corinthians 3 the working of this wonderful Covenant.

Now, just a note here. Those who are still under law, or legalized Grace CANNOT SEE, because the veil (Moses) is still over their eyes. That's a fact. And the fact is SATAN has blinded your eyes. Not God!!! That's a fact.

Well, I hope that didn't confuse anyone too much.

Was that what you were looking for? Not sure?

Love in Christ
Katy-did ;-)

 2007/6/28 14:01









 Re:

But for the Christian it is no longer about redemption; heaven is no longer the goal...son-ship is, that is if he understands the gospel.

Something I wrte awhile back:

01-2006 The Lord Jesus Christ is the Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the End; the First and the Last. We were in Him at the First and will be in Him at the Last. Between the First and the Last we are in the world, to become [a son]. The First and the Last, He is responsible for being that. The in-between is our responsibility. It is given to us to become as He was in His flesh. Without a vision of the last, we will not become that which is purposed by the Father. The vision of the Last is implanted in us from the first.
A revelation of the First, the Christ of Glory, brings the vision of the Last, our inheritance in the Father the vision that will sustain the in-between... which is now. The vision is the understanding of His Grace; the overflowing of His Nature to us, who are "begotten again", to be tutored to learn His Character; to become as He is.

I hope that helps.

 2007/6/28 15:01









 Re:

Ormly,

Quote:
The in-between is our responsibility. It is given to us to become as He was in His flesh.



Im not sure I understand what you are saying here. We cannot become as He was in the flesh. Fully God/Fully Man. Without sin.??? Is this what you are saying we become. I believe at Calvary our History in Adam 1 ended. Crucified with Christ. We are now a New Creation in Christ Jesus, old things pass away, all things become new. We "In Him" only have Righteousness, Christ who is our life. Anything else would suggest we are little gods...wrong. Nor did we exist before the foundatiuon of the world. Mormons believe they did, and much of Calvinism, taken from Mormonism or vice versa, believe this. The Church...the Bride, was from the Foundation..
Yes, God knows the beginning from the end, and who will and who won't. But to suggest we existed before the foundation of the world is incorrect. I do hope that is not what you are suggesting.

Love in Christ
Katy-did :-)

 2007/6/28 15:59





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