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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

what was God telling cain?? to do good and not evil.. He was saying in effect "cain, if you do not go what is right in my eyes and live holy unto me, then sin will take you in its grips and not let go"..

does this scripture teach us anything different than what we tell others.. "God has called us to know Him and choose good works, but if we don't, evil is right there to pounce on us"

the bible goes on to record the fact that cain chose to murder his brother because he was wicked and hated him (1 john 3).does this surprise us?? no, because it wasn't like he was a righteous man (like noah, enoch, abraham, etc) who just suddenly turned away from God. scripture never shows us that he was right with God at any time..

just some thoughts..

 2007/6/23 9:37Profile









 Re:

Do you know what I like about this story, it proves man has free will. If what some theologies teach, that man is so totally depraved from the fall that they can only be saved if God choses, and you have nothing to do with repentance, then why would God give Cain a second chance?

From the very beginning of Adam & Eve's sin, you know that they taught their children (since Abel knew about sacrifice..Cain did too) that Abel approched God under God's terms. Cain represents those who want to come to God on their own terms. Yet God gave Cain a second chance to come to Him on HIS terms, and his pride would not allow him to do so. We know that satan is the father of Pride, and it is pride that people want to work their way to heaven, rather than just admitting they are a sinner. Just look at the publican and pharisee. Look at the two men who died next to Jesus.

Just more food for thought.

Love in Christ
Katy-did :-)

 2007/6/23 9:50
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

yeah, i always looked at that story, along with hebrews 11 as an example of one brother loving God and desiring to live how God wanted and another brother who didn't care what God said, but loved his life more than God..

"if you gain your life in this world, you will lose it, but if you lose your life in this world, you will gain it".

what is you're guys' interpretation of this scripture verse??

i john 3:9 " whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God"

 2007/6/23 10:12Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???

Quote:

LoveHim wrote:
yeah, i always looked at that story, along with hebrews 11 as an example of one brother loving God and desiring to live how God wanted and another brother who didn't care what God said, but loved his life more than God..

"if you gain your life in this world, you will lose it, but if you lose your life in this world, you will gain it".

what is you're guys' interpretation of this scripture verse??

i john 3:9 " whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God"



Oh, Thank You for asking!!!!

In Jesus we cannot sin, because He already took our sin, and died our death, even the sins we haven't sinned yet.

But we are very easily deceived, and can sin so much that we turn to the Evil One, and take his hand, grieving away the Holy Spirit.

Which is why I started this thread! I believe it with my whole heart, but I don't want to give too much encouragement to sin by promising a new-born in Christ that they are always saved.

One can fall...but Jesus has a nice habit of picking us up again, and carrying us along the path. One can fall too many times, and Jesus will weep as He consigns you to Hell.

Please, everyone, teach the hope we have in Christ, and give no guarantees! Please!!!

Blessings,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/6/23 10:27Profile









 Re:

Quote:
One can fall too many times, and Jesus will weep as He consigns you to Hell.

In Jesus we cannot sin, because He already took our sin, and died our death, even the sins we haven't sinned yet.




Is that not a contradiction of thought?

Forrest, Do you have any scripture to back that up? I know we are taught as Christians to forgive 70x7. Does that mean we keep an account and at the 490th sin that person is cut off? Or does it mean we don't keep an account? Would God ask something of us He would not do himself?

At Calvary, our sin was forgiven, past , present and future. It was nailed to the cross as it says in Colossians 2.

His seed remains in you goes back to Genesis 3:15. That seed is Christ.

When I think of the story of Jesus washing Peter's feet, Peter said, Not just me feet, but wash all of me. Jesus said, that wasn't necessary. Why? When we are washed in the Blood of Christ, we are clean. Yet in this world we are in, we do get our feet dirty? If we say we have no sin, we are a liar and the truth is not in us.

Those who started with us, but did not continue, never were to begin with. This is what the Bible teaches. I believe this is what John meant when he said, you can not sin, because His seed remains in you. You cannot sin by turning away and departing if you have Christ in you.

Just food for thought.
Katy-did :-)

 2007/6/23 10:55
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

1 john 3:6 says "whoever abideth in sinneth not; whosoever sinneth hath not seen Him or known Him" or whoever abides in him does not live in sin, but whoever lives in sin has not seen Him or known Him..

in the same way, verse 9 tells us that because the Son of God destroyed the works of the devil and we are in Him, then we will no longer be characterized by a life of sin.. we will not be one who is living and continuing to live a life of sin. why is that?? because we are good people?? no, because His seed remains in us and we are in Him.. we have been born again (v9).

these verses are in context of john showing the difference between false teachers and false believers and true believers..

he shows how that unbeliever lives a life of sin, but the born again believer lives a life of righteousness becuase He knows God and is known by Him..

 2007/6/23 11:30Profile









 Re:

Everytime I re-read 1st John I get more and more out of what John is saying. He begins the chapter...from the beginning. He uses Cain as an example. Yes, Phil, much is talking about anti-christ, false doctrine, and those of this world who HATE those whom God has redeemed through His Blood. Those who are redeemed and no longer a part of this world's system, (the pride of life, lust of the eyes, etc...that the prosperity teachers now teach) the redeemed are in great conflict with false teachers. We in Christ overcome the world, because He who is in you is stronger then he who is in the world.

It's funny, Peter says we were purchased with the precious blood of Christ. When I purchase something..it's mine. It belongs to me, and not even the thing I purchased can say to me, I don't belong to you. We are not our own to take ourselves out of the picture. By who's rule? What Jesus gave His life for, He will not disgard...it cost too much.

Love in Christ
Katy-did
:-)

 2007/6/23 11:45
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Katy-did wrote:
Quote:
One can fall too many times, and Jesus will weep as He consigns you to Hell.
In Jesus we cannot sin, because He already took our sin, and died our death, even the sins we haven't sinned yet.

Is that not a contradiction of thought?

Forrest, Do you have any scripture to back that up?

[b]Rom 1:24[/b] [color=990000]Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:[/color]
[b]Rom 1:26[/b] [color=990000]For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:[/color]
[b]Romans 1:28[/b] [color=990000]And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;[/color]

God will eventualy give man what he want's. Israel wanted a king, HE gave them one.
Balaam wanted the money, HE let him have it.

In Romans 1:24,26,28 He gave them gave them up and gave them over.

If one persists in wrong, bad, and eroneous doctrine, He will give them over to it(2Peter 3:16-17).

 2007/6/23 13:42Profile









 Re:

Logic,
I am so glad the story didn't end there in the Beginning of Romans. I believe Paul was laying a foundation you failed to finish. So, I will finish what Paul was beginning to say in Romans 1

Romans 5:12Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

21That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.


Thank you Father for sending your Son to die on
the Cross for our sin. Thank you that you didn't give up on us or take back your promise of Genesis 3:15. Thank you for saving Noah and his family so that promise could be fulfilled.

Katy-did ;-)

 2007/6/23 15:20
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear brothers and sisters,

the old covenant was a covenant of IF you obey, THEN i will bless you and do my part. IF you are faithful, THEN i will be faithful.. and we know that Israel was not faithful, but kept forsaking the True God for idols..

BUT the beauty of the new covenant is that God has gone out of His way to ensure that we will be faithful on our part.. what He has done is secured our faithfulness and thus the new covenant will not be broken by us..

what would you say of i told you that God WILL CAUSE a new believer to keep the new covenant???
some would say "no way, we have to do our part to keep it" or "but phil, we have freewill you know". while both of those statements are true, in the same way God has CAUSED us to keep His everlasting covenant with us.

jeremiah 32:38-40

v38- "they shall me My people and I will be their God"

v39- "then I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me forever, for the good of them and their children after them"

v40- "and I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me"

ezekiel 37:26-27

v26- "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh"

v27- "I will put My Spirit within you and CAUSE you to walk in my statutes, and you WILL KEEP my judgements and do them"

in this new covenant that the Lord has made with us, He has gone out of His way and secured our obedience so that this everlasting covenant cannot be broken by us..

He wil give us a new heart, and a new spirit within us.. He will put His fear in our hearts that we will not depart from Him. He will CAUSE us to KEEP His covenant..

that is why a true believer will not fall away. not because he is a good christian, but because God has secured our obedience by placing a new heart and spirit within us.. we have the seed of God in us and we will no longer live a life characterized by sin, because we've been born of God..



 2007/6/24 9:49Profile





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