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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

matthew 7 many will say Lord, Lord, on that day, but i will tell them i NEVER knew you, you who PRACTICE lawlessness..

how come Jesus didn't say "i knew you once, but you backslid"..

because He NEVER knew the unbeliever and consequently the unbeliever NEVER knew Him..just a thought..

 2007/6/21 8:29Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Katty-did
thank you for saying it mater of fact that you hate Hinn.I have long suspected an underlying reason for all the hatefull comments on SI
Being a christian, to me, is such a beautifull thing nothing on this planet compares to Jesus and the christian experience.I walk with Him , but to you and your buddies I walk with the devil.
My utmost desire is to "hook up" with Jesus in even a greater way.I knoww who my redeemer is and He is not the devil.
Where do you suppose to find perfect leaders? I have been to baptist churches and there is so much to "pick" but i never see any microscope aimeed at this denomination!
The things of the Spirit are opposite the things of man. If I lack I give. To get filled I fast.If I am hated I love.{am woking on these}
Benny Hinn perfeect? NO! Benny Hinn flawed YES! Benny Hinn misspeaks YES! Benny Hinn has error? YES! Benny Hinn sees through a cloud darkly YES! Benny Hinn has doctrinal flaws? YES! Do I have issues with him? YES!
Are all charasmatics includind Benn Hinn devils? NOOOOOO!
Every single one of us have these same issues.According to SI i gueess all of us arre devils......David

 2007/6/21 9:38Profile









 Re: Predestined.

The only two verses using any for of the word "predestinate".

Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29 For whom he did "foreknow", he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

"Elect" is used 20 times through-out The Word, and those 20 need to be looked at.

"Chose" 29 times.

"Chosen" over 200 but not all referring to people.

The points I'm looking at most are - we're changing God's way to "ultimate" salvation for the Jew of the O.T. and for the Believers after Christ came, by saying that "believing and faith" are not continuous action verbs. Or that it 'was' for them and not for us ?

That they being "the [u]chosen[/u] people" back then, became cast-aways because they did not "continue" in obedient faith, before Christ came , but now, we can stay saved despite our obedience ? Obedience is the verb of Faith or Believing in continuous action, according to the Greek Grammar alone.


Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

We, "those He 'Foreknew' would except Him", are only predestinated to be conformed to the image of Christ.

Looking at these Un-conditional eternal security "proof-texts" that are being used, I wonder how they apply to the O.T. people and how would Jews now a days see these type OSAS views coming out of Christians, when we say that they were cast off, before Christ came, for their disobedience. Some having fallen away from the faith & Law presented in Abraham back then.

James explains that "faith" is an action word, or else it is not "faith". That is what is said in the O.T. too.

You would have to see how many times that "faith" or "believeth" is used in the N.T. - as a verb - where it is used in a way, which in the Greek Grammar, constitues a "continuing on", every time. Even in John 3:16.

 2007/6/21 10:06
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear grannieannie,

i do not know of anyone that would say that anyone who is saved can live how they want or does not have to believe anymore.. they will persevere and overcome, not because they are great christians, but because they are born again and God's seed remains in them.. thay have the Spirit who will lead, guide, correct and encourage them.

true, born-again believers will persevere to the end.. from our perspective, they will continue to believe and it will look like their doing.
from God's perspective, we would see Him keeping us and persevering us.. i believe that the problem persist when we only emphasize one side to the neglect of the other. that is why on the path of christianity there are ditches on both sides called antoniamism (sp?) and works-salvation. but the balance between the 2 is christianity..

 2007/6/21 11:25Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Isnt there a scripture that says " having been born again and tasted of the things of heaven and turning their backs on the truth............it is impossible to renew such a one".?....sorry for paraphrase
David

 2007/6/21 13:14Profile









 Re:

Psalms 1: I know the scripture you are talking about..it is Hebrews 6. funny thing about that chapter, many want to take that verse standing alone, without reading the whole book of Hebrews. It's really hard to debate that and the one in Hebrews 10, when someone doesn't understand the Covenants to begin with.
Tasting of the Holy Spirit is not being indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
Example...Look at Hebrews 3&4 and what the author is talking about. Now all came out of Egypt right, but all did not go into the promise land...correct. Now, those 40 years all were partakers of seeing and being a part of the miracles in the wilderness...manna, water from the Rock, the parting of the Red Sea, etc, etc, but like Judas,( many didn't go over, but died in their sins in the wilderness...why, because they did not have faith..faith in what...faith that what God said He was going to do He would do.) they failed to see beyond the physical. ( Oh that's too hard, Oh I'm scared, there are giants in teh land) In John 6 Jesus goes even further explaining this concept. He said "I WAS" that bread! There is a difference in those who want the bread or want the bread! No I didn't make a mistake saying that, but I know after reading John 6 you will understand. Those following Jesus wanted things FROM Him, but not HIM!
Our life is IN CHRIST, and our blessings are HIM, not what he can give. Yes, people can be pulled and drawn by the Holy Spirit, even see those miracles as Jesus did in feeding the 5,000, and go and tell their friends about it too, but that doesn't save you. As Jesus said, I AM the bread of life... I AM the resurrection. I AM!!! You know who that is?

You see, when Jesus rose from the dead, he broke the power of sin and death Satan held over mankind. It's the Spirit of Life in Christ that sets us free from the Law of sin and death. The law of sin and death go right back to Adam and Eve, they sinned...mankind died. Read Hebrews 1&2...it's totally awesome. Read 1 Corinthians 15. Now that's a good one...oh death where is thy sting...there isn't to those who are In Christ. We have In Him..Eternal Life...Jesus would have to die again for us to lose our salvation. We WERE dying in our sin, and He became sin for us. Read Colossians 2, where our old man was crucified with Christ..in the circumcision of the putting off of the sins of the flesh, by the Circumcision of Christ. Everywhere you turn in scripture we have HOPE, Encouragement, and told WE ARE a New Creation IN CHRIST! TO GOD be the Glory! What God has joined together, let no man put asunder. We are His Bride, and will be presented by God to Jesus Christ, God Gift to Jesus, (the Chrurch). Read John 17. Jesus said, as many as you have given me...We are God's Gift to Jesus Christ.
Love in Christ
Katy-did
:-)
The gates of Hell WILL NOT prevail against the Church...the Church is the Body of Christ. We **are** His Body.

 2007/6/21 14:56









 Re:

To my special friends in Christ:
Galatains 2:20 & 21

I know your Grace when I feel helpless;
I know your Love the times I fall;
And when I feel I'm really nothing;
That's when I feel you most of all.

And then those times I feel so restless;
When things just seem to big to see;
You'll pick me up, and there you'll carry;
For faith in you is rest for me.

Love in Christ
Katy-did :-)

 2007/6/21 15:22
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

the old covenant was a covenant that sought to prepare us for Christ. (gal 3:24). it told us what we needed to do, but gave no power to carry that out.. its goal was to show us that in and of ourselves, we are utterly hopeless..

when we realize that, we are ready for the new covenant promises.. the new covenant is what the Lord said in jeremiah 31:33-34 "but this is the covenant which i will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord, i will put my law within them and on their heart i will write it; and i will be their God and they shall be my people. they will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother saying know the Lord, for they will all KNOW me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, declares the Lord, for i will forgive their iniquity and their sin i will remember no more"

the beauty of the new covenant is that the Lord takes the initative to do all these things within His people.. look at the 6 i will's of God...

1) i wiil make
2) i will put
3) i will write
4) i will be
5) i will forgive
6) i will remember

the Lord does make this conditional, in fact, He says He will do this and makes no mention of what we have to do.. we will be doing something, namely believeing and obeying, but not because of us, but because of what He has done and is doing in us..

 2007/6/21 15:24Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:


dear katy-did,

thank you for the poem. that was really nice and oh so true..

ps. i love those scriptures as well.. galatians is such and awesome book when dealing with law and grace..

 2007/6/21 15:28Profile









 Re:Persevere on our part.

LoveHim Phil wrote

Quote:
i do not know of anyone that would say that anyone who is saved can live how they want or does not have to believe anymore.. they will persevere and overcome, not because they are great christians, but because they are born again and God's seed remains in them.. thay have the Spirit who will lead, guide, correct and encourage them.

true, born-again believers will persevere to the end.. from our perspective, they will continue to believe and it will look like their doing.
from God's perspective, we would see Him keeping us and persevering us.. i believe that the problem persist when we only emphasize one side to the neglect of the other. that is why on the path of christianity there are ditches on both sides called antoniamism (sp?) and works-salvation. but the balance between the 2 is christianity..



Couldn't have said it better myself Phil, but the only thing that bothers me is when people remove "freewill" from the equation.

Reading the very first part of Job, we see Satan coming to God accusing God that Job only "followed him and was faithful because God put a hedge around him."

The reason God had that Pre-Moses, etc. story of Job put in there, was to show us that GOD wants to show Satan that HE does not create robots.

That "real love" is not real love unless it is by choice.
You wouldn't want a girl married to you that didn't want to be ... and if you married her, you wouldn't keep her tied in the basement, if she decided she wanted some other lover and not you or decided that adultry was going to be her lifestyle years after the wedding vows.

We're not mail-order brides, but brides by Choice and Love. He chose us, but we chose Him, just as in the symbology of Marriage, as it is.
Sincere love, that "come what may" - our Love for Him will stand the test of time and freewill. And that is what gives Satan the pop in the eye, so that he can never accuse God again of "keeping us" against our will.

He keeps those who deep somewhere inside, want to be kept. Even if they're struggling with it all.

I tried to say much earlier in this thread, that we are so close in our feelings of His keeping power and all that I don't see too much difference except in the 'freewill' dept. As in quenching the Holy Spirit or turning away from the faith or becoming a legalist as Paul discusses in Galatians ... that causes one to fall out of Grace also. Like you said, two extremes in every system of beliefs.


Anyhow, I liked your post.
Thanks.
Annie

 2007/6/21 15:44





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