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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

The plight of the Templeton's of the world.

Matthew 7:21-29 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock. And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine: For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

What or true to the Word, Who is the Rock?
The Rock is the revelation of God the Father that, "Jesus Christ is the Son of the Living God."

This is His Body the Church or congregation of the Most High God the congregation of Jesus Christ His Body, which was given for us.

dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion [is] an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom [that] which shall not be destroyed.

Mar 6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing [him] were astonished, saying, From whence hath this [man] these things? and what wisdom [is] this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands

Dominion, not to pass away or be destroyed.

Galatians 2:19-21 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

"Who gave Himself for Us?" Salvation is a Person, That Person being the Christ that is in you. Can you see by Faith of the Son that Christ Himself is in us? This is our never ending salvation and cannot be ended, it is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

In Christ forever: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/6/16 17:30Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???

I've been studying the Reformation, and the tangle of people surrounding Luther and Calvin, and came up finally with a statement that I liked very much for it put the relative placement of where we all have to walk out our salvation.


[color=0000FF]A Sovereign God, Human Will, and Divine Grace.[/color]


God must prepare the ground, else the seed sown by God cannot take.

Man must consent, else there is no love or trust in God.

But without Divine Grace, there really is no way for man to be saved.


I keep wondering, in all sincerity, how can we know we are of the elect until we meet Jesus?

What we can know is that God prepared the ground in which we said "Yes" to Jesus. This is the only free will necessary.

And Divine Grace? Without Jesus, we are nothing, lost forever. And without the Holy Spirit, who is there to teach us to understand the Word, and the intent of our Soveriegn God?


Once Saved, Always Saved seems to be shorthand for all that I have said above, but without the distinctions, I cannot preach it to an unbeliever, or promise it to a babe in Christ.

I can say, God led you to this moment, He will keep you safe, if you believe in His Son.

I can say, without Jesus, we are none of saved, except by the arbitrary rule of the Father, who can save whom He will, and damn whom He will, for He created us.

[color=993300]Romans 9:13. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.[/color]


And without Jesus in our hearts, and Holy Spirit teaching us to walk on, we cannot make our election sure.

[color=993300]2 Peter 1: 2. Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3. According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6. And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7. And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9. But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:[/color]

There is no merit in man, yet we must do something to continue in Christ. Faith, and diligence in faith, walking the straight and narrow path, and not turning back, can only be accomplished with the Father's gift of the Son, and the Son's gift of the Holy Spirit, that we may never fall.

Blessings,

Forrest


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Forrest Anderson

 2007/6/20 1:43Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sis wrote;

Quote:
There is no merit in man, yet we must do something to continue in Christ. Faith, and diligence in faith, walking the straight and narrow path, and not turning back, can only be accomplished with the Father's gift of the Son, and the Son's gift of the Holy Spirit, that we may never fall.



In my own words...when the Spirit speaks to the inner man, this is the grace necessary for man to know His will, so that man then has the responsibility to say...Yes Lord.

As we stumble He is faithful to speak to us again in mercy and grace...to always give us the opportunity to say "Yes Lord."

If we choose not to obey His voice He is faithful, He cannot deny Himself. If we choose to not obey His voice, we choose our own destruction.


This example is given to us in Scripture...

Gen. 4:6 So the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”


1John 3:10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

Whose our father?
In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/6/20 2:18Profile
whyme
Member



Joined: 2007/4/3
Posts: 293


 Re:


UniqueWebRev wrote:

It would be nice to say that anyone who believes in Jesus as his Saviour is automatically of the elect, but there are so many verses riddled throughout the New Testament that appear to say that we must make our election sure.

It might help to try to read certain scripture as intended to read from man's perspective and others from God's. The passages about making your election sure are, I believe, only about making it sure in your own mind. They certainly can't be about making your election to salvation sure from God's because then salvation would be of works.

Clearly we all want assurance that we are in the elect no matter your interpretation and God provides us with mirrors in the Word to see our reflection. The Law is a mirror, the Sermon on the Mount is a mirror, 1John is a mirror and there are multitudes of passages that help us examine and test ourselves and others so that we can discern our spriritual state. Like the Law of God, these mirrors help us to see our failings and shortfalls and come to again depend completely on and strive every day for more of Christ and keep us from spiritual pride which I believe is the reason for sanctification being such a long walk and struggle. That is not to say that the struggle can end in futility and a final falling away. God is able to save us to the uttermost and to suggest that the Devil has more power to deceive the children of God than God has to keep them is simply a lack of faith caused I believe by those who lack it relying on their own personal experience and perceptions of who is lost and who is saved than from having faith in the Word.

 2007/6/20 5:14Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

whyme wrote:

Quote:
God is able to save us to the uttermost and to suggest that the Devil has more power to deceive the children of God than God has to keep them is simply a lack of faith caused I believe by those who lack it relying on their own personal experience and perceptions of who is lost and who is saved than from having faith in the Word.



This statement is true as long as one submits to being led by the Spirit.

1John 4:4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

John writes that we should test the spirit...

1John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.

How can we overcome the wicked one, how can we know what is good and what is evil?

Heb 5:

13 For everyone who partakes only of milk is unskilled in the word of righteousness, for he is a babe. 14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, that is, those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

John teaches this precept also in this verse...

1 John 1:

14 I have written to you, fathers,
Because you have known Him who is from the beginning.
I have written to you, young men,
Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,
And you have overcome the wicked one.

Satan will deceive many because they do not love the truth...

2 Thes 2

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Do not take Satan lightly...

Watch the sermon that is highlighted on the home page by Zak Poonen...How to escape deception.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/6/20 6:13Profile
whyme
Member



Joined: 2007/4/3
Posts: 293


 Re:

Thanks Rookie. I wasn't implying that I take Satan lightly. I just meant to say that some take him to be more powerful than God when it comes to our staying saved. Satan has power but he is only able to exercise against God's people as God permits ( eg., Job ). If you believe from Scripture that God will not permit anyone or anything to separate us from the love of Christ, then God has said he will not permit Satan to deceive us to the point where he could separate us from Christ or our salvation.

 2007/6/20 6:28Profile
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dears brothers and sisters,

nice to see some people picking this post back up and writing on it..

i think a great example of the power of satan and Jesus is in the story of Jesus and Peter..

luke 22:31 and the Lord said " simon, simon, indeed satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat

luke 22:32 BUT I HAVE PRAYED FOR YOU, THAT YOUR FAITH SHOULD NOT FAIL, and WHEN you have returned to me, strengthen your brethren.

this great Word who was manifest in the flesh, died and was raised to life is in heaven and is able to save to the uttermost because He ever lives to make intercession for them (hebrews 7:25)

love you guys,

 2007/6/20 13:22Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Luke 8:11 “Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. 14 Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity.

In these three groups of people, the word of God was sown in their hearts. Satan is behind the circumstances by which people are sifted.

Those who do not feed on the word of God are in peril to falling prey to the devices of Satan.

So those who love the truth will be protected by our Lord. But many will say Lord Lord on that day, and He will say I never knew you, you who PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.

Jesus taught in another place...

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Those who continue to submit to the flesh will continue to be a slave to sin, they will not abide in the house forever, but they will die. But those who love the truth will be set free from Satan and his sifting...

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/6/21 0:36Profile
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi, have you ever farmed? would you ever throw precious seed in weeds or in rocks or in any unprepared ground?no you must dig up the ground H.S. unless God builds it is built in vain.jimp

 2007/6/21 4:15Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother jimp asks:

Quote:
would you ever throw precious seed in weeds or in rocks or in any unprepared ground



God does according to Scripture...

Gen. 4:6 So the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”

In this example God exhorts Cain and also warns him. And we know the rest of the story...Satan became his father.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/6/21 6:06Profile





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