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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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PosterThread
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sis wrote:

Quote:
Remember the Ark of the covenant? What was on top? Answer: The Mercy Seat!!! Yes even in the OT. Jesus Christ is our Mercy Seat, and with His own blood made the way once and for all. This is the GOOD NEWS we proclaim to a lost and dying world. Election is not about US, it's about Jesus Christ.

Now, no commentary is needed here...Scripture teaches Scripture. Salvation is of the Jews, it always has been, it always will be. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is grounded in the OT. There is no such thing as a "new" Gentile Gospel. Gentiles are partakers of the Covenant's" of promise. Ephesians.



Few recognize Christ in the OT. I always ask the question who is the Holy One of Jacob, yet no one answers...

Prov. 9:10 “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom,
And the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

God Bless
In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/6/13 0:23Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???

Quote:

UniqueWebRev wrote:
After all this wonderful discussion and display of scripture, I would like to get back to one particular point.

However Elect we may bee, we will not know it to be a fact until our salvation is assured, either through a walk so holy and divinely inspired, so full of fruit of the Spirit that one simply knows that Christ is in him, and he is in Christ, or when we are with Christ, and past the travail of this life, we will be with Him.

For it is travail, and we all of us, no matter our view on the extent of Pre-Destination, are working to walk out our walk in faith, and show ourselves approved of God.

Did we start there? Did we know how long and how hard a walk it would be, even knowing that Christ was living inside us?

Please, look again at the explanation of the Parable of the Sower, as laid out by the One who knew.

[color=993300]Matthew 13:18. Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.
19. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.[/color]

This seed is dead before it hits the hearer, for the devil makes sure that it is never really heard.

[color=993300] 20. But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;
21. Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.[/color]

This seed begins rightly, but cannot get past the hard parts of the Christian life.

[color=993300] 22. He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.[/color]

This seed begins rightly as well, but the cares of this world and the lies of the Evil One overrun it.

[color=993300] 23. But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.[/color]

Ah yes, the Elect. But did they start that way?


I didn't.


When I look back at my life, I seem to have passed through all four sowings.

For those of you that don't know me, I was brought up in a household without faith, and without observance, and with an extreme distrust of God and the Church - RCC Mom & Protestant Dad.

The first sowing was snatched away by the devil...he used a Sunday School Teacher to indoctrinate me with the idea that perfection was needed to get into heaven. I came away without any knowledge of God except a memory of a blackboard covered in colored chalk representing a child's eye view of Hell, and a tendency towards perfectionism.

Fortunately, no one told me OSAS. I wouldn't have believed them.

My second sowing brought about a baptism, but the devil used a tongue-talkin' church to scare me into believing that they, the church, were evil, for in my 15 year old simplicity, I understood I wanted Jesus, but the tongue-talkin' church forgot to tell me about tongue-talkin', or that I was supposed to come out of the baptismal pool speaking in tongues.

No one told me OSAS. I woudn't have wanted to hear it. All I wanted was to get away from that church as fast as I could.

I got finely tricked by the devil, and went into the Occult. I became an expert at divination, with Tarot Cards, and Palm Reading. And I was good enough to scare people, and make money at it.

I got mad once at someone making fun of my abilities, got a deck of cards, and sorted them, red and black. The odds on doing that are about 30 million to one. I had a friendly demon helping me out. And yes, I scared the people who made fun of me. They shut up, and my boyfriend kept on bragging on my abilities! Gee, what nice friends I had. Thank God I didn't know about OSAS!

I slid into promiscuity like I was coming home.

And my parents were fine with all of this, so long as I got a good education, kept a good reputation to protect the family, and was a success!

So I did that too. The love of money...oh, isn't it so nice to have, and all that?

But you know, the baptism held. I had meant what I said, and Jesus was walking around with me, stuffing in a little unorthodox word here and there along with the classics, and psychology, and I got the real comparative religion along with fairly balanced history and literature because I started college in 1972. The hippies weren't professors and politicians yet.

They are now, and you can't get anything good taught you except at home, that is, if your parents care, and then can send you to a good Christian University.

And when I was 23, I met a guy named Dr. Gene Scott, of recent memory. Yeah, a weird guy, but a very sound scholar. Since he died last year, everyone is using his stuff. Hearing him teach on Romans gave me an education beyond price. His three different sermons on Psalm 84 are a blessing to watch, even if I do have to watch him change ages.

I skipped his playful UFO/British Israelite/Pyramids/Occult/Weird Religions stuff because I already knew as much as he did about that stuff, and maybe more. I didn't care that he said 'damn' and 'hell' since he never blasphemed, not that I would have known or cared! And since I smoked, and drank, I didn't object to him doing so.

Oh, and he taught Pre-Destination and the Perseverance of the Saints at the same time. No, not Calvinism and Armenianism. Just Pre-Destination and Perseverance...hand in hand, until death. Doc Scott taught faith, but he also taught tithing, and about the fruit of the spirit we must show, or be fakers. And he never once said anything about OSAS.

Life engulfed me, and the Word slipped away, and I was caught in the world. But I had God, even if I didn't like His Son's Name, and more scholarship than I knew what to do with. So, in between making money, and partying, I studied some more. And from time to time, I'd be back watching Doc Scott on the satellite because when he talked about God, I understood him. And I drank in years of his teaching, reading his booklist, and studying to see if what he said was really in the Bible. And I learned, right down to the little Greek and Hebrew Squigglies.

I'd been in a Sorority - I knew the Greek Alphabet. I studied Classics - got a bit more there. Hebrew...well, I at least know what a Yod is.

I always did have a scholarly nature. You should have seen my Occult library! And my Antique Tarot Cards! And if I'd really been into spell casting and demonology, we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. But I knew enough about what I was doing to be scared of that. And that means I was in very deep.

And somewhere along the way I got real tired of the life I was living. And even though I was studying Zen on the side, I talked occasionally to God.

I got married and I was happy. Worldly, but happy. I stopped giving Tarot readings...not enough time. Oh, and I still managed to catch a fair amount of Doc Scott. I didn't bother sleeping. He was more interesting. And the more stressed out I got, the more I asked God for peace of mind and comfort of spirit, since I actually knew what that meant. Oh, and I finally asked it in Jesus' name too.

Uh oh, that car crash! Bye Bye career, and self, and husband, and sanity, and the ability to move without pain, or live without heavy duty meds. And I even have a high pain threshold!

Hello Peggy Thelan, a psychologist who happened to be a good Christian.

I got my 4th and final sowing along with the counseling to cope with the devastation of my life, the brain damage and the neurological damage you get from breaking your neck in a ditch.

But you know, she didn't tell me OSAS either, so when I collapsed after my husband left me, and hit bottom, hating what I had become, and all that I had lost, I reached out for Jesus. And I hated calling Him that, but eventually got used to all the Christianese. I never went to a church, so I never heard OSAS either.

And I finally fell in love. I was 42. I'm at the obsession point now, 10 years later. I've actually asked Him to use me however He would...that was wierd. He replied.

I don't mind being broken all that much, either, since I know if I was entirely fixed I'd be back out in that world, soaking in success, and sinning away. Because I don't know how to live in the world any other way.

And I'm covered in Christians, because my ministry is to the fallen away relations of church goers. So I meet them everywhere. I have fellowship everywhere, and pass out a few cards. And God's little website that I run for Him...people keep finding it, and more of them show up each week. They're actually starting to send some of what I write to others!

I don't set foot in a church except for Weddings and Funerals. I'm a woman, and I'm not allowed to rebuke the outrageous Pastors that are out there.

I have church wherever I go, because, being disabled, God puts the people He wants me to see in my way.

Well, that's all very nice for me.

But my dad's only been saved a year, and won't even open a Bible yet. It's fun watching the Holy Spirit teach him, because I'm not allowed to. I'm his daughter, even though I am an evangelist and teacher.

So, knowing that OSAS would have been deadly for me to hear, do you think I should tell my Dad?

I know that Election is only sure when you are dead, for I get attacked a lot by the devil, and it would be very easy to turn around in the path. Sin is very attractive when you've been away from it for a long time, and forget how deadly dull it is after a while.

No, I don't want to hurt Jesus, and I enjoy living in peace, and yes, I believe in Hell, and if it's hard for me, how much harder is it for a fresh caught fish in the hands of the modern Christian Church?

So, how many of you want me to start telling people OSAS?

When would it have been good for me to hear it?

I don't dare believe it now, much as I'd like to. Because I'm really good at sinning. Lucifer cried when I rededicated my life to Jesus.

So, if it's not safe for a reasonably well taught, walking the walk Christian to know, why are we telling anyone about it?

I know that grace is there for the sins of my bodily nature. But what about the deliberate ones I really would like to commit, because they're fun, or useful, or might be if I got mad, and had one of my guns handy around a politician...or a reporter!

Uh, Uh! No way! I know I have to watch my walk every day, and so do all of you, and those that say otherwise are lying to themselves.

Yes, I know that God knows who is saved, and will make it to the end in Christ, but none of us know that. From what I see, I'm probably there, but I don't know, not for sure, not enough to bet my salvation on it. What if I fail at the last moment during persecution? After all, it's coming soon to a city near you, and I'm not quiet about being a Christian.

I don't mind jail. I expect it will come to that even in America before I die or am raptured. And death? No problem, I'd love to go Home now, but I wander how well I'd face getting there the hard way?


So, any of you want to bet your salvation on OSAS?

Or teach someone else to?



In Christ,

Forrest



P.S. And for those that care, I got rid of the Antique Tarot Cards and the Occult Library when I asked the Holy Spirit for the gift of tongues. I don't use it much...only when I'm prompted to, but the gift is there, along with others that God uses from time to time.




Hmmm. I ask a simple question about OSAS 13 posts ago, and no one will answer it.

You are all so concerned with the fact or non-fact of Election that you are missing my point.

OSAS is not about ELection. It's not about what is true or even false.

OSAS is a trap set for the feet of the unwary, the new-born in Christ.

OSAS says that under no circumtances can you lose your relationship with God once the seed of faith is sown into your heart.

Part of the time I even believe it.

But what I have been asking all along is what the doctrine of OSAS, taught to a new-born believer, might do to their actual ability to refrain from falling away.

I go to the trouble of delineating having received all of the types of seed sowing into the heart, and DUE TO THE PERCEPTION OF THE NEW BELIEVER, can cause great harm by telling those babes in Christ that they can never lose their salvation when they, much less ourselves, do not even know if the seed was sown into good ground.

You are all doing a spendid job in avoiding the point of this thread, much less answering one post of mine without making the entire affair about the doctrine of Election.

And I am truly horrified by your lack of oncern for the new-born in Christ, who do not yet know if their 'ground' will endanger their salvation, or cause it to go awry.

And I am beginning to think many of you have a strange type of selective reading and response.

After all, most of you don't even address the questions at the end of the post, leading me to believe that you don't get past the first paragraph before thinking about how to get your favority doctrinal point across.

I pray that I am only seeing a habit of defense of your pet views, rather than a total disregaard of the point in question.

And the point in question runs in every post of my in this thread.

I am unconcerned if OSAS is true or not.

What bugs me is that many of you are happily telling OSAS to the most vulnerable of the newly saved, even whie knowing that the newborn's too early knowledge, and twisted perception of what God promises can be used against them by the Evil One.

I'm not shocked at the behavior I find here.

But I m truly disappointed that no one answers a post unless their answer can express their pet viepoints.


In His service,


Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/6/13 4:07Profile









 Re:

Elected,

Thank you for Wesley's Poem. Love has a language all it’s own.

Do you know what is a real shame here in America...I don't know about the rest of the world, but it's the old Hymns that are missing in the Church. "Now" it sounds more like some new age chanting. Some people have NEVER heard the Old Rugged Cross. How awful. I think the reason many haven't heard that song is because it isn't relevant today. Here, it's been re- painted to Red, white and Blue, all decorated up with Sigmund fraud hanging there too. It's now where we're told to go and pick up our heavenly lotto tickets. No wonder no one understands, The preaching of the Cross is to them that parish foolishness, but to us who are saved, it is the Power of God. When the meaning of the Cross is changed, and the preaching of the Cross is changed, that's when you get confusion and unanswered questions. The answers are all right there in the Bible. But, do people even read their Bible anymore, or just follow the latest and most popular guru or movement. Guru's pass, movements pass, "ism's" cause schisms.

This is the power of the Cross that continues to work in our lives. This is how we are being Conformed to the Image of Jesus Christ. We are Born again, not of corruptible seed, but Incorruptable, by the Word of God, that lives and endures FOREVER.


James 1:

2My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations;
3Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
4But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.
5If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
8A double minded man is unstable in all his ways


We are Complete IN Him, EVERYTHING we need is right there In Jesus Christ, who has been made unto us Wisdom and Knowledge. The Lord doesn't want us being tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine that comes along. Paul said, that I may "KNOW HIM".

With Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-did :-)
Have a Blessed Day!

 2007/6/13 6:48









 Re:

Forrest, {I prefer Suzanne, but ...}

Forgive me but, I don't know where that "quote" was before, that you posted just now, but I'm copying it to read later. I cannot possibly read entire threads but do my best to keep up with the subject matter. Eyes are very tired.
But I just wanted to say ~ Now you're 'talking'.
That testimony was the pleonasm {only playing with words} I was 'waiting' for. {Sorry - Psych major here - ha} I'm so glad you posted that here. I used to tune into Scott 20 yr.s ago, but quit because he 'was' OSAS because he 'was' Predestination/Election.

About 'your' thread {and I think a person can be jealous over it going as 'on topic' as possible} ~ I understood exactly what you meant by OSAS and posted to it in my first post, so did others.

Down yonder here in Goody Country - ha - you see the fruits of this belief wherever you go.
We're the belt-buckle-of-the-Bible-belt here, so it seems 90% of folks are "Christians".

I don't come down on those who love the Classics and preach holiness and the members here Do and the Authors that dominate the SI Classic list, despite our difference in opinion of Election, which is the 'basis' for their belief of " [u]un[/u]conditional eternal security" - [u]you can't have one without the other[/u] - so that is why the topic kept drifting back to it.

I for just one, happen to hope you'll stay at SI. There's no better place to have the LORD help rub "our" rough spots smoother. Whether it's organic in nature or not ~ speaking from much experience here in Forum-izing.

We must just make a pact, to stay open to each other and make Love the primary #1 foundation of why we're here ~ and hear each other out.

If you've studied Reformed Theology or Calvinism, you know about "TULIP" or the 5 points of Calvinism and know there are differing degrees of that belief.
Some say they are "strict or full 5 pointers" ~ others not so much - but nevertheless, you can't have this discussion without Election/Predestination coming up every time. {Irresitable Grace}

Lord BLESS you and I will take the time to READ this post/testimony you've posted today {Praise God} and I'll try to come back with another reply as soon as I can.

Lord Bless you again.
HIS PEACE TO YOU.
LOVE.

annie

 2007/6/13 12:15









 Re:

Forrest, In re-reading your last post, this verse came to mind:

23. But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

And with that, these two verses came to mind:
Romans 6:22
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your FRUIT unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Romans 7:4
Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth FRUIT unto God.
In the last soil, the” Good Ground” is Christ in you, and only Christ in you can bring forth fruit. The Spirit of Life in Christ has set you free from the law of sin and death.

Adam & Eve sinned and we died. Jesus Christ came to set us free from our history in Adam 1 and our life now is in Adam 2, or Jesus Christ. (*Who* was buried with Him in Baptism unto death?) Those first 3 soils are people who do not having the indwelling of Jesus Christ. They are trying in their old sin nature to live a life that Only Christ in you can live . He came to Give life and life more abundantly. Jesus came to set us free, and those who have found the truth in Calvary are free to bear fruit. You can’t abide IN Christ unless you are In Christ and He in you.


Look again at the last verse of the soils…all who were in Christ did bear some fruit to some degree didn’t they? . The verse does not say, …..and those who bear 30% or less are disqualified….OR , You must bear at least x % amount of fruit or else. Paul tells us, Not all men have faith. James says, faith without works are dead. This verse perfectly qualifies True genuine faith….not only does it hear and understand, but it bears fruit.
This parable is so close to what the Book of James is about…the testing of your faith. Genuine faith produces genuine understanding that brings forth genuine fruit.

Our old flesh nature, however much it loves to be religious, will eventually be found out for what it is, religious flesh. The Lord didn’t come to restore your old fallen flesh nature, He came to crucify it. The first three soils thought they could get away with being religious flesh. NADA! The last one, having obeyed Romans 6 and as it says above in verse 6: 22, and Romans 7:4, bear the only fruit acceptable to God.
This is not Holiness teaching, it’s the very Gospel Paul, Peter, James, John, Jude preached. This is the Gospel of Salvation. Paul told the Galatians, “ Until Christ be formed in you” and again, “I am crucified with Christ, no longer I but Christ in me”. He was teaching them the Gospel. He said any other Gospel was accursed. To fall from Grace is to fall from the teachings of Grace, and going back under the law. If some want to call the teachings of Grace, Holiness teaching, then I’m real confused. If we are saved by Grace through faith, and we grow in the Grace and Knowledge of Jesus Christ, then why call it holiness teaching, or something above and beyond the Gospel? So with that mindset, Grace is cheap, unless you want to go on to Holier ground??? and then THOSE guys get to be the elect? Where does the Bible teach this? Help me understand this?

Love in Christ
Katy-did
:-)

 2007/6/13 15:00









 Re: Back to the Love part and

Freewill.

Welp, I've read Forrest's post and now Katy's and I'm still back to where I was some Lord-knows-Only how many pages back.

Doctrine is a Freewill thing. I type my answers on line, not off, because I want to not "expound". I want to write as plainly and transparently as is humanly possible.

Back to these issues now.

It was admitted that Jesus had freewill.

Why ?

And are we not in the same position as He was in ?

Did HE take upon Himself our exact nature, (except for Adam's part) and was tempted in all manners such as we, but was without sin and by CHOICE ?

Would HE then go to Heaven and make robots that would "stay in Him" regardless of their "choices" ?

NOW, the main part of where I was heading in, way back on page ?.

We are "control freaks by nature".

We are - period. Men and woman alike. And whether we know it or not. And it's all - for the Most part - because of some "fear".
No, not getting into Psycho-babble here, but knowing humankind from His Word in it's entirety.

All of us who try very very hard to change the view of another are into "control".

Paul said in Titus, Twice is the limit, even if the person is a blatant heretic.

IF we go beyond that, we're saying Paul was wrong to tell Titus that.

Does that end all discussion ? No ! But what it should do is make us pray - "Why" am I going beyond what is written to prove that you must believe as I do ?

What am I fearful of ?

No, we can't say so others won't fall. That is just excusing our "control issue". If Scripturally it says "twice", even for the worst of doctrinal errors.

That is why us "making room for each other on here" is the most important thing that we will have to stand before GOD for. Not whether we arm-wrestled a 2000 year controversy and 'won'.

I did 'win' this debate 4 yr.s ago - but in the process, lost fellowship with all my Calvinistic sisters and brothers.

Again, most every classic author that I love was of Calvinistic background and having been what I was/am, I'm now in a Reformed Theology Church. Go Figure.

I won't throw my Classics out, nor my sisters or brothers, but will enjoy that we LOVE the same Master and preach what LOVING HIM really is, in His Book.
Folks either Love God and others more than themselves or they don't .... that's the issue.


And thanks again to Dom for his thread on "Fear".


Love to y'all.

 2007/6/13 15:28









 Re:

GrannyAnnie,

It's funny, I never knew this kind of argument even went on until about a year ago. After listening, and at times participating, I realized many of the main players were in it for all the wrong reasons. It left me feeling really sad, because so many wonderful scriptures were swept under the table as though God's Word was secondary and the Word was just getting in the way of the argument. What I observed more than not was the lack of understanding of the Gospel on both sides. And boy did I learn a lot about Calvinism that I had no idea they were teaching, ...saved and regenerated before you are saved, so totally depraved that even Cornelius was some mistake that had gotten in the scriptures by accident, adding thatCalvinist didn't want to deal with that one, not to mention Nineveh...Good Grief, was Jonah a Calvinist who got his nose bent out of shape because these people actually weren't so depraved that they actually HEARD Jonah's words and repented. The more I listened the more scripture came to me that Calvinism is wrong. But because they are the only ones people hear about that believe in eternal security, then you are labeled a Calvinist whether you want to be or not. No I'm not a Calvinist or an Armenian and deeply resent being labeled either one. Why can't a person believe in Scripture, present the Gospel that would help both sides of this argument see things maybe no one has seen before, through different eyes that is not prejudice to either side, and not get beat up by both sides. Is that possible? I think not. I think only those who themselves are tired of labels, and the same ol same ol argument that someone thinks they have to win. It's not about winning, but getting to the truth.

Paul said, The Preaching of the Gospel is the Power to Salvation. Well, we better make sure we know what the Gospel is, because any ol Gospel is not going to save you...there is no power in it to save you. Is the Gospel worth fighting for, at the expense of being accused of having wrong motives? I say, if one's motive is to preach the Gospel, then that motive is motivated by God. Calvinism preaches me, myself and I am the elect. God made the rest to send to hell. This is NOT the Gospel, but what I call a hate crime. Where did God call anyone of us to exalt ourselves and prance around our election at the expense of preaching the Gospel to the Lost? But, because of Calvinism ONLY do we have this argument with the other side.....and rightly so, because Calvinism does not preach or teach or believe in repentance, righteous living, or a love that would lay down their life for someone else. Many not picket Billy Graham Crusades with t-shirts that say "NO CHOICE". That they thank God for 911 or Katrina, etc, or etc. And this is what the world of unsaved hear and we wonder why they don't want anything to do with Christianity. This is the time of Grace, not God's Wrath. We need to get as many on the ark before the Wrath of God comes. But to have people hear this who have lost loved ones in these catastrophies, shows No Love.

Well, I'm saying too much here, and I just want you to know my motive is not to win anything but lost souls to the Lord.

Love in Christ
Katy-did :-)

 2007/6/13 17:06









 Re:Dinner time.

Katy-did, I'd only like to address one sentence if you wouldn't mind.

I accept that you do not believe in predestination, right ? And you're clarifying that for me and your stand against Calvinism, but just this one sentence leaves many of "us" out.

Quote:
Is the Gospel worth fighting for, at the expense of being accused of having wrong motives?



We're not discussing preaching the Gospel on this thread - but [u]un[/u]conditional eternal security. That takes place 'after' one is already saved.


If you say "that IS The Gospel", then those of us on this Forum who have differed with that belief of OSAS are Not "preaching the Gospel" and you are saying that I am saying that you cannot preach the Gospel because you have wrong motives.


See ?


Gotta run, it really is dinner time here.
Love!

 2007/6/13 17:27









 Re:

GrannyAnnie, I believe in Predestination. We have been predestined to be conformed to His Image. But Predestination has nothing to do with total depravity, no free will, or repentance or whosoever will. Those who come to Christ, God has predetermined BEFOREHAND to conform us to the Image of Jesus Christ...the Church. Strange to have a head looking like Jesus and a body looking like darthvader.

I'm saying Paul so defended the Gospel that he was beheaded for doing so...by who, the lawyers, pharisees, legalists....not the unsaved world. The Reformers defended the Gospel at the loss of their lives....against who? Those who preverted the Gospel message. They taught eternal security was being a member of the Catholic Church, and no one went to hell. If you paid enough money to the Church, you could buy your loved one out of pergetory or lombo.

God's ELECT in every Generation are ELECTED to defend the Gospel, even unto death.

Love in Christ
Katy-did :-)

You said, we are not discussing the Gospel on this thread, but eternal security. What exactly do you think the Gospel is, and how does the Gospel NOT fit in with any of this discussion? How can you separate any of these issues from the Gospel. The Gospel is the ALL of it. Paul said in Romans 16:25-27...the Gospel according to the MYSTERY. The MYSTERY IS "CHRIST IN YOU". Can Christ in you die? Can Eternal Life that has been given you die? If one walks away, they never had genuine faith to begin with. They simply heard anotherone of those gospels that don't save or agive eternal life. Yes, the Gospel has everything to do with this discussion.

 2007/6/13 18:20
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Sister "Forest" wrote:

Quote:
I got my 4th and final sowing along with the counseling to cope with the devastation of my life, the brain damage and the neurological damage you get from breaking your neck in a ditch.



Your whole testimony brings to mind a section of Scripture which speaks to the work of God and how He calls men and women to repentance...


Job 33:14 For God speaketh once, yea twice, [yet man] perceiveth it not.

15 In a dream, in a vision of the night, when deep sleep falleth upon men, in slumberings upon the bed;

16 Then he openeth the ears of men, and sealeth their instruction,

17 That he may withdraw man [from his] purpose, and hide pride from man.

18 He keepeth back his soul from the pit, and his life from perishing by the sword.

19 ¶ He is chastened also with pain upon his bed, and the multitude of his bones with strong [pain]:

20 So that his life abhorreth bread, and his soul dainty meat.

21 His flesh is consumed away, that it cannot be seen; and his bones [that] were not seen stick out.

22 Yea, his soul draweth near unto the grave, and his life to the destroyers.

23 ¶ If there be a messenger with him, an interpreter, one among a thousand, to shew unto man his uprightness:

24 Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom.

25 His flesh shall be fresher than a child's: he shall return to the days of his youth:

26 He shall pray unto God, and he will be favourable unto him: and he shall see his face with joy: for he will render unto man his righteousness.

27 He looketh upon men, and [if any] say, I have sinned, and perverted [that which was] right, and it profited me not;

28 He will deliver his soul from going into the pit, and his life shall see the light.

29 Lo, all these [things] worketh God oftentimes with man,

30 To bring back his soul from the pit, to be enlightened with the light of the living.


As for your questions on OSAS...I also understood...sometimes I just get tired of asking the same questions as you have to those who do not see...

This is the Scripture that I always point to and if one is honestly submitting to the word of God one cannot continue on in teaching OSAS...

Rom 8:12 ¶ Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

These are believers who have been born from above. And Paul teaches that all believers must choose daily to listen to the Spirit and not to the old man...

If they listen to the old man they will die. If by the Spirit they mortify the old man they will live...

God Bless you Forrest...keep on sowing and watering...

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/6/13 21:54Profile





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