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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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 Re:

1 John 5:13
These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW that ye have ETERNAL LIFE, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may KNOW Him that is true, and we are in Him that is true, even in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and ETERNAL LIFE.

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we KNOW that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.


Philippians 3;9-11

9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may KNOW him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

As long as we understand we are Justified by His Blood and Saved By His Life, "His Risen Life". The Spirit of Life in Christ has set us free from the Law of sin and death. Jesus said, I AM the Resurrection.

Adam and Eve were formed out of the dust of the earth, and the first man Adam was a life giving soul. But the Last Man Adam, Jesus Christ is a life giving Spirit. The first Adam did sin and die, but this is the Great News of the Gospel, Jesus overcame death for US. He became like us, took upon Him our sin, died and rose again, that those who have eternal life IN HIM will never die. Oh death where is thy sting? Yes our physical bodies will die, but our New Life in Christ will never die. That is why it's called ETERNAL LIFE. We can KNOW we have ETERNAL LIFE.

We have a higher calling than Adam and Eve ever did. They were of the dust of the earth, earthly, We are bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh, Co Heirs, seated with Christ in Heavenly places in Christ Jesus, we are His Body. This was never promised to Adam and Eve. Obviously they did not have eternal life. When we are saved, we are not restored back to what we were befor the fall, and then if we fall or sin again, we die again, and over and over and over. But I do believe this is what some actually think. No, we are a New Creation "IN CHRIST" who died on a cross for aour sin, and rose again, never to die again.

Oh death, where is thy sting?

**1 Corinthians 15

Love in Christ
Katy-did






:-)

 2007/6/2 18:40
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
Jesus even said, "those false Christs, and false prophets shall deceive the very elect."(Mark 13:22)
The Elect?!



Jesus didn't say that, but He did say this
Mark 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, [b]to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.[/b]

Sorry, but the elect will not be deceived. If they are, then Jesus does not know what He is talking about here
John 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and [b]the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
John 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.[/b]

And here
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Since I used this verse, let's ponder this in light of the thread topic. Jesus says that all that come to Him will not be cast out, but some of you have said that other Scriptures say that genuine believers can be lost? The Bible never contradicts itself, so we need to see if there other verses that would substantiate this truth that Christ has redeemed those whom He died for, and that they will not be lost.

John 6:39 And [b]this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.[/b]

John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto [b]the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me;[/b] and they have kept thy word.
John 17:7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
John 17:8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
John 17:9 [b]I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. [/b]

John 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: [b]those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.[/b]

Now let's jump back in to Chapter 6
John 6:44 [b]No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. [/b]
Remember verse 39

John 6:45 It is written in the prophets,[b] And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. [/b]

This is the reason we can have full assurance that what God has begun, He will complete. We do not initiate the work, we do not create or manufacture faith on our own. It is impossible without the working of the Holy Spirit first.

So as we move on, let us look at this verse

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Could the "foreknown" here be those the Father gave to Christ? and also those who Christ said would not be cast out, but would be raised up at the last day? Could these be His sheep for whom He died?

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

This verse says nothing about a child of God "losing" his salvation, but rather guarantees that thos who are called, will be justified, and they will be glorified. Of course again comparing Scripture with Scripture, we see this only carries out the idea Christ was putting forth in John. Those sheep the Father gave Him will not perish, as He is the Good Shepherd who gives His life for them.

But now look at John 6 again

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
John 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Notice how Christ contrasts these with those given to Him by the Father. These do not believe, yet He tells them all that the Father gives me will come(believe).

Now look at John 10
John 10:24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

Look at Christ's answer, it is similar to what He says in John 6
John 10:25 Jesus answered them, [b]I told you, and ye believed not:[/b] the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

Why didn't they believe?
John 10:26 [b]But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
John 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:[/b]

Notice Christ does not say, "because you don't believe you are not my sheep", but rather, "you do not believe because you are not of my sheep"

Of course we see that the Good Shepherd will not let one of His sheep perish. His death and resurrection has secured their glorification.

Have fun all :-D


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/6/2 21:08Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

""Notice Christ does not say, "because you don't believe you are not my sheep", but rather, "you do not believe because you are not of my sheep""


I love this, Thank you for another apologetic for the eternal security of His sheep, and our Lambship in Christ.

I love it.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/6/4 2:15Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???

Quote:

Christinyou wrote:
Quote:

""Notice Christ does not say, "because you don't believe you are not my sheep", but rather, "you do not believe because you are not of my sheep""


I love this, Thank you for another apologetic for the eternal security of His sheep, and our Lambship in Christ.

I love it.

In Christ: Phillip



Wow!

When you see the next newborn lamb of God, are you going to tell him it's safe to play with the big bad Wolf?

Or that because he's a nice little lamb of God that the Wolf won't eat him?

Or that hanging around with the big bad Wolf will do him no harm, because of his eternal lambship?

Because that is what Once Saved, Always Saved is saying.



Or are you going to tell that nice little lamb to stay in the middle of the herd, where the Shepherd can protect him?

That is Once Justified, Always Justified.




They are not the same thing, yet so many think so that little lambkins are being preached to by the Wolf!


Blessings,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/6/4 3:04Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Quote:
We have a higher calling than Adam and Eve ever did. They were of the dust of the earth, earthly, We are bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh, Co Heirs, seated with Christ in Heavenly places in Christ Jesus, we are His Body.



This is not according to Scripture...

1 Corinthians 15

47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

1Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

In the ressurection, we will be made perfect.

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/6/4 3:19Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???

Quote:

rookie wrote:
Quote:
We have a higher calling than Adam and Eve ever did. They were of the dust of the earth, earthly, We are bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh, Co Heirs, seated with Christ in Heavenly places in Christ Jesus, we are His Body.



This is not according to Scripture...

1 Corinthians 15

47 The first man was of the earth, made of dust; the second Man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust; and as is the heavenly Man, so also are those who are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the man of dust, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly Man.

1Cor. 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed— 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

In the ressurection, we will be made perfect.

In Christ
Jeff




Thank you, Jeff! You put that point very clearly.

I said in a previous post along these lines that we are BETROTHED to Jesus, not Glorified and Married to Him.

It is only then that we will be safe from ourselves, which is my whole point.

Blessings,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/6/4 6:03Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???

Quote:

pastorfrin wrote on another post, and I've borrowed it:

If ye do these things, ye shall never fall.

What things? 2 Peter 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises:

Through the scripture we have been given these promises. Why?

That by these ye might be partakers of the divine
nature. How? By faith; ”faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God.”
Now to faith is added virtue, and to virtue knowledge ect...2 Peter 1:5,6,7

Vs 8 For if these things be in you, and abound,
they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor
unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is quick {alive)
and powerful (active), and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing
asunder of soul and spirit, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
2 Pe 1:9
But he that lacketh these things is blind, and
cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he
was purged from his old sins.

James 1:22 But be ye doers of the word, and not
hears only, deceiving your own selves. 23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in
a glass:24 For he beholdeth himself, and straight
way forgetteth what manner of man he was. 25 But
whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty,
(see John 8:31-32) and continueth therin, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Why? Because the scripture cannot be broken. John 10:35

Thus, if ye do these things, ye shall never fall.
because the word of God says so.

For ever, O Lord, thy word is settled in heaven.
Ps. 119:89

In His Love

pastorfrin




Pastorfrin,

Hope you don't mind me using your very nice post to other ends, particularly if you don't see a similar application here.

Do you?

Blessings,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/6/4 6:21Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???

Alas, I'm stealing quotes from others...please forgive me, HmmmHmmm...it's too good to resist, and I didn't think of it in this application:


2 Pe 1:3-10

According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: {to: or, by} 4 Whereby are given [i]unto us[/i] exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8 [i]For if these things be in you, and abound[/i], they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. {barren: Gr. idle} 9[u] But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.[/u] 10[b] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:[/b]






Which falling states there is a place to fall from, which I merely want people to teach against, instead of encouraging them to think you can never fall!



ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED IS A LIE!



Blessings,


Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/6/4 6:49Profile









 Re: Once SAved always saved

Jeff, I said we have a "Higher Calling" then Adam and Eve. They were never promised to be Glorified together with Christ. We, in Christ are/will be placed Higher then the Angels. Man was lower than the Angels. Hebrews says, Jesus became lower than the Angels, took on Him the form of Man, and with that broke the power of death Satan has had over mankind. We in Christ are now in a place Adam and Eve never were or were ever promised to be. Just re-read John 17, and everything that has to do with Glorification. We will be Glorified “IN CHRIST”. Christians should NEVER see themselves outside of Jesus Christ….He is our very Life!

Love in Christ
Katy-did

:-)

 2007/6/4 9:53









 Re:

Here are some very important scriptures that will help you see whether you are a Judas or not. You know those in John Chapter 6 who said , "This is a hard saying" who walked away and Jesus referred to them as saying to His Apostles, "Will you betray Me Too?"". To eat His flesh and drink His blood is to be a partaker in the fellowship of His sufferings. This is to whom are the promises of Eternal life. Has this Grace of which you stand manifest in your Life? Have you walked away? Have you said, “That is a hard saying? Well, considering ALL these scriptures posted below. If you are offended by them,you may want to check and see if you are truly In the Faith. If you are not offended by them, then you know the Hope of your calling.

There are so many more than this, but here are a few:

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

Hebrews 2:10
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Hebrews 5:9
And being made PERFECT, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

1 Peter 4
1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin; 2That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

1 Peter 4:13
But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

1 Peter 5:1
The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the GLORY that shall be revealed:

Romans 8:18
For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the GLORY which shall be revealed in us.

2 Corinthians 1:5
For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:6
And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.

2 Corinthians 1:7
And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

Philippians 3:10
That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Colossians 1:24
Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church:

1 Peter 4:13
But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

1 Peter 5:1
The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

Love in Christ
Katy-did
:-)

 2007/6/4 11:59





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