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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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 Re:

Hi GrannyAnnie: The Gospel that so many miss in scripture is that we are called to the fellowship of His sufferings. It seems those who are anchored in "these" truths are the ones that know it takes that fellowship to be conformed in the first place. Once we are resolved to this truth, knowing our life now belongs to the Lord, we don't fight it. We know we are no longer a part of this world system, and what the world has to offer. When you think of it, Job also went through this experience. He was considered by God a just and righteous man. Yet he still went through the process of seeing himself up against the Holiness of God, and said in the end, "I loath myself". He was saved, because he knew, and said, "I know that my redeemer liveth". He also said, "I shall come forth as Gold". Now this is the secret of the True Christian life. Comparing Rev 3..the Church of Laodicea, the Lord says, "buy of me GOLD TRIED in the fire."
We don't hear this being taught today, and because we don't, there is total confusion as to what our calling and life In Christ is about. We hear so much about faith producing cars, and boats and planes, great health, money etc, but OUR FAITH is producing GOLD only the Lord can give..A life so wonderful and beautiful In Him that nothing in this world can even compare. Those who have found this true walk, don't turn back...only those who are not taught this truth, and are told the opposite, become confused and turn back.
The fact is, when one TOTALLY SURRENDERS their life to the Lord, they have given it completely over to the Lord. It belongs to Him now. What we lose in this world, we have a million times over in the Riches that are in Christ Jesus.
God Bless! With Love in Christ
Katy-Did! :-)

 2007/5/31 8:47









 Re:

Christinyou, Phillip:

I agree with you completely. One of the first things the Lord taught me "He is able to KEEP all I have committed unto Him against that day".

Jesus said: those who keep their life will lose it, but those who lose their life for my sake and the sake of the Gospel will save it unto eternal life. I do believe this is what the Gospel is about. "I am crucified with Christ!. No longer I but Christ in me".

The Lord asked me for my whole life, and I said YES. After giving Him my life, He said, "He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the Day of Jesus Christ". I knew then He was the one doing the work, not me, and I've had that assurance for over 30 years.

In Christ
Katy-Did :-)

 2007/5/31 9:59









 Re:

Hi Katy-Did,

Please excuse my sort of rediculous sign-on name.

I'm nothing but someone who was about to become a grandmother a few years ago and was excited about it around the time I found SI. Ha.

Thank you for your post. It answered a question I had when I got back up on my computer after a year, "Why the name Katy-Did ?"

Ha ~ I always look at Sign-Ons and anaylse them. Just a fun past time. Usually, the name does wind-up fitting the person.

Katy-Did read her Bible ... so now I get it ! :-)

Two nights ago, after posting on this thread - I thought of the time I had to look up 'suffering' in the Strong's Concordance.
Two days ago, we at home here, brought up the Church of the Laodicean ... that they're problem was doctrinal.

Suffering is a weird subject though, isn't it ?
Some, who haven't read the Word think, we 'want' to suffer or we're asking for it.
Others think that their suffering is "redemptive" for others, if you know what I mean.

Tough subject. But, they say we'll be locked up anyways, eventually, for believing in the Bible.
Can you see how anti-christian folks will use this "suffering" belief against us one day ?

They'll think they're giving us what 'we' asked for.

I read a quote from one of the New Ager folks about 20 yr.s ago and they said, "the earth needs to be purged of Christians" and that they felt, we "should be sent to another dimension, other than the physical plane, where they'll (we'll) be Happier."

We don't even realize, how it's not just the so-called New Agers that feel this way. Many other religions feel that way too and the world of psychiatry and politicals too and not just for our morality.

What I see out there and not even thinking of just these religious wars presently active, is many many barrels pointed in 'our' direction.
They've changed the meanings of fundamentalists and evangelicals to radicals/fanatics - period.

Peaceful as you may be - if you believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God - well, you know the rest Katy.

See around I'm sure 8-)




 2007/5/31 14:07









 Re:

GrannyAnnie, You are a good judge of names! Ha! I like your's too. With your posts, I would say it is a derivative of Annie Oakley...a straight shooter, that rarely misses! You are very perceptive and I really enjoy talking to you.

Back to the subject of suffering, Hebrews says Jesus learned obedience from the things he suffered. Now we know Jesus was without sin, so it wasn't sin that caused the suffering. It is sad today that there are so many "Friends of Job" around, who tell you it's because of sin in your life. Maybe some, but not all. We all must die to self, and we didn't come fully equipped in all the fullness and knowledge of Jesus Christ the minute we became saved. I find the things I have learned personally from the Lord, I hold on to with my whole life. That would also include the testing of our faith that we do hold on and not let the world or false teachers steal away. Holding on will insure suffering as Paul held on to Grace plus nothing at the cost of his own life. Yet he said, there is now laid up for me a crown of Righteousness, and not only for me but all who.......hold on the the truth no matter what as well...(Katy-did and am so glad I did!)

Every person In Christ should have their own personal commentary. I guess that would be called our testimony!!!

Love in Christ
Kate
:-)

 2007/5/31 16:06
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???

Quote:

GrannieAnnie wrote:
HI Forrest and Katy-Did,

Right on. We are secure "as we abide in Him".

The misuse of the name "Elect" is the 'abuse' of the verses that speak of the security of the Elect.

The Elect are again, those who God, through Foreknowledge knows, will be faithful unto the end.

They will endure and by their desire to press on and love Him by pleasing Him only, that will set them apart as those who loved not their lives to the death - Etc.

The abuse of the OSAS belief is what has caused many that I've seen where I live to live self-centered lives instead of Christocentric.

Thank you for both of your posts. I enjoyed them.

Phil 3:7-14




Thank you. I am so relieved that there are others that see my point, not that the elect are not perfect in Christ, but that WE don't know if WE are the elect, and must keep believing, and acting in belief; loving God and one another, until the last day, ever pressing on in holiness of mind and heart and spirit.

Our sin nature is always a burden to us, and can pull us temporarily off the path, but as long as we keep our eyes on Jesus, and walk in the Holy Spirit, we will overcome, and find, that after all is said and done, that we are the 'Elect' of God.

It hurts to see new Christians led astray into thinking that their salvation is secure if they do nothing but what they have always done, and continue delighting in sin, when every mature Christian knows that we must walk out our faith in fear and trembling, always hopeful, always counting on the grace promised us, but not counting on ourselves to stay in righteousness in the heart, mind and spirit without a little effort!

But I will not know I am of the Elect until that final day, and I will not presume to think so, so I'm going to press on, and overcome, with Jesus' help.

Blessings,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/5/31 22:15Profile









 Re:

Kate and Forrest,

Your posts are invigorating. "Pressing on". Guess that's why I do like Phil 3:7-14 so very much and earlier today as I was reading 2Thess.3:5, I thought about you two and Jeannette too, coincidently.

You both had brought up "His Coming" today. You Suzanne (that's my one and only child's name :) on your Site and Kate did above and on the Zionism thread I believe it was. There's two Jewish type threads going now, so I can't keep track which posts are on which. :-?

My favorite comforting verse is Mat 24:24 ~ For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, [b]IF[/b] it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

LOVE & Love Truth - He IS The Truth.

T.A. Sparks has a message on this site called "Truth in the Inward Parts" that I read as often as I can.
Lies start off very small. Just in general everyday talk ... but it's a seed ... and any untruth will cause deception because it goes against The Spirit of Truth.

I enjoy both your posts and wish you'd go on with your eschatological views Forrest on that blog today. I'd love to hear the rest. It's my favorite subject ... The Blessed Hope.

Thank you both again for good/blessed conversation.

Annie

I don't know why, but I felt I wanted to add something to those Jewish threads, but didn't feel the freedom to ... so maybe I'll just post it here and see what ya'll think.

Since the genome or genetic code stuff was broken ... instantly there was an interest in narrowing down "true jews" genetically.
From what I've heard ... the reasons for this is not good.

What do y'all think about that ?

Shalom :-)


Edit ~ No, Kate's post was on the Replacement Theology thread.

My opinion of "Replacement" - the Gentiles (the wild olive tree) were grafted in and shouldn't boast against the Natural branches of the true one and only Olive Tree, that GOD had intended to be One People from the git-go.

Is that O.K. ?

 2007/5/31 23:00
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Is this not assurance of election?

1 John 5:10-13 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Who are the Elect?

Col 3:12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

1Ti 5:21 I charge [thee] before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou observe these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.

Tts 1:1 Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

1Pe 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

Christ the chief corner stone, elect, precious, He is the first Elect and being Elect making us elect by the birthing of Jesus Christ in us from our born again experience and regeneration to the Mind of Christ and His Life in us. That is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/6/1 3:02Profile









 Re:

GrannyAnnie and Forrest,

One thing I know, If I didn't have the assurance of my salvation, I could never have endured much of my Christian life. It's because of that assurance that we have HOPE as we go through the trials and tribulations in this life. I believe Job also had that HOPE when he said, "I know I will see the Lord and will be raised up again". "I *KNOW* that *MY* (personal) redeemer liveth,", I shall come forth as GOLD. He knew there was something wonderful going on in the whole process that even his friends didn't understand. I know even at some of my lowest times, with no strength of my own, barely able to even utter a word, the Lord, in all of His faithfulness, picked me up and carried me. These are the most precious times of my life...that it's not about me or what I can do, but How Wonderful, the Lord is. This is what I call AMAZING GRACE!

Job 19:24-26

24That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever! 25For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: 26And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

Job had assurance!

Love in Christ
Katy-does-too! :-)

 2007/6/1 6:07
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???

Quote:

Katy-did wrote:
Hi GrannyAnnie: The Gospel that so many miss in scripture is that we are called to the fellowship of His sufferings. It seems those who are anchored in "these" truths are the ones that know it takes that fellowship to be conformed in the first place. Once we are resolved to this truth, knowing our life now belongs to the Lord, we don't fight it. We know we are no longer a part of this world system, and what the world has to offer...The fact is, when one TOTALLY SURRENDERS their life to the Lord, they have given it completely over to the Lord. It belongs to Him now. What we lose in this world, we have a million times over in the Riches that are in Christ Jesus.
God Bless! With Love in Christ
Katy-Did! :-)




Oh, Katy,

How much I wish that this were the case.

Yet Paul in Hebrews 6 speaks specifically to this:[color=993300]Hebrews 6

1. Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2. Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3. And this will we do, if God permit.
4. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5. And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.[/color]

Paul is stating that if one falls away, and by falling away, it is not the mere habits of the dead body that is still a part of us that is a falling away, but a going away from Christ. And to ask Christ to forgive it again is to crucify Him again.

Judas Iscariot was a true follower of Jesus, and it was only at the end that he fell away. His lust for money, and whatever disappointments he had in Jesus for not being the King in Glory Messiah, were overwhelmed by the knowledge of his injustice to Christ. Judas killed himself rather than risk asking Jesus for forgiveness for helping to put Him on that cross.

Would Jesus have forgiven the man whom Satan entered into? He was only a tool of the devil's after all. I cannot believe that Jesus would, for He said, [color=99300]Matt.26:24. The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.[/color]

Once Saved, Always Saved says that no matter what we do, Jesus will always take us back, no matter how far we stray.

Under this theory, one could take the mark of the Beast during the tribulation in sincere belief that one would be forgiven.

But as Hebrews shows, there is a point of no return, where if Jesus were to forgive such a betrayal, that He would have to suffer the crucifiction again.

I know that Jesus bends over backwards to keep us saved, because I have tested Him very far, yet in a way, I never entirely let go of Jesus' hand, nor He of mine, even when I was doing my worst sinning.

I sinned in ignorance, in foolishness, in fear, and because the devil tricked me well. And to a point, I enjoyed my sins. Who hasn't?

But I didn't knowingly or unknowingly turn my back on Jesus and walk away, diving into a life of sin, and deliberately and lasciviously luxuriate in sin, and teach it to others.

And there are those that were in the Church that have turned their back on Jesus, and have taught the Devil's lies, and Jesus will not take them back.

And to tell a babe in Christ that he is always safe, no matter what he does, is only going to encourage this kind of behavior.

How many souls have you told that all will be well, that are dancing with the devil, and can never come back? Will they blame you for false teaching? Will Christ?

I will not take that risk as a teacher, nor will I encourage anyone to believe that there is NOT a point for every person when Christ will become so sickened at their behavior that they are vomited out of the Church Corporate.

Once Saved, Always Saved is a lie.

The burden of teaching it be on the heads that do so.

In Christ,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/6/1 20:56Profile
roaringlamb
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 1519
Santa Cruz California

 Re:

Quote:
Judas Iscariot was a true follower of Jesus, and it was only at the end that he fell away.



Dear Forrest you have much insight into spiritual things and I am blessed by many things you have posted but I must ask you where in the Bible does it say Judas was a true follower of Christ?

We read these words of Christ
John 13:10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: [b]and ye are clean, but not all.
John 13:11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean.[/b]

If we suppose Christ is speaking of regenration i.e. washing of the whole as the Greek word used for the first "wash" would indicate, Jesus is making the point that not all of them were. Thus we could conclude that Judas was not a true follower of Christ.

And again
John 13:18 [b]I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen:[/b] but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.

Notice Christ differentiates between His chosen, and the betrayer that would fulfill prophecy.

Here's another
John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil

Of course we must assume that "chosen" here does not mean "unto salvation" as a devil cannot be saved. Yet Christ states clearly that Judas was out to do the deeds of the devil. Judas may have been a false professor, but never a true follower.


_________________
patrick heaviside

 2007/6/1 21:13Profile





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