SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
See Opportunities to Serve with SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 | 13 | 14 | 15 | 16 | 17 | 18 | 19 | 20 | 21 | 22 | 23 | 24 | 25 | 26 | 27 | 28 | 29 | 30 | 31 | 32 | 33 | 34 | 35 | 36 | 37 | 38 | 39 | 40 | 41 | 42 | 43 | 44 | 45 | 46 | 47 | 48 | 49 | 50 | 51 | 52 | 53 | 54 | 55 | 56 | 57 | 58 | 59 | 60 | 61 | 62 | 63 | 64 | 65 | 66 | 67 | 68 | 69 | 70 | 71 | 72 | 73 | 74 | 75 | 76 | 77 | 78 | 79 | 80 | 81 | 82 | 83 | 84 | 85 | 86 | 87 Next Page )
PosterThread
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re:

Quote:

GrannieAnnie wrote:
I love when this topic comes up and turns into a meeting of two minds.

I don't believe in UNconditional eternal security, as it's taught by some ... but the neat thing is that ... "the elect" will not lose their Salvation.

This is neat ~ Who are the elect ?

Those who GOD Foreknew from before the beginning - so to speak - that wouldn't 'fall away'.

He knows those which are His and who will "endure unto the end."

Whenever you see Him speak of the Elect in The Word - you find them "not being deceived" and in the verses where that title for them is mentioned, they are nothing but 'overcomers'.

There are tons of verses, like the parables of the sower and ground types and so on, that tell of those who make a profession of faith but as Charles Stanley said yesterday .... even believing in Christ, etc. does not make one "saved".

If you look in the N.T. Concordance under verses with "if you" alone, there are many-many "if's".

Our only difference in these two ways of thinking is that those who hold to OSAS say - that if a person has no sign of fruit or holiness
"they were never saved in the first place" and us others say .... they presently cannot be saved by their lifestyles ... but that's where we can agree .... that they "presently" are not saved.

Why argue if both argree on that ?....Most all of our Classic Authors we love so much believed Reformed Theology or Calvinism and I love those Authors best, but with that one point - God's foreknowledge of who the Elect are. He Knows those that are His - those who will remain faithful even unto the end.




Oooohhhh, GO Grannie GO!!!!

Blessings,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/5/30 13:59Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???

Quote:

roaringlamb wrote:
This seems to fit with the discussion here, enjoy as this is the marrow of what we are getting at.

[i]The bent of the needle

(Thomas Brooks, "London's Lamentations" 1670)

"No one who lives in Him keeps on sinning. No one
who continues to sin has either seen Him or known Him." 1 John 3:6

A trade, a course of sin--is inconsistent with a state of grace. The best saints have sadly miscarried as to particular actions; but he who shall judge of a man's spiritual state by particular acts, though notorious bad, will certainly condemn, where God acquits. We must always distinguish between some single evil actions, and a serious course of evil actions. It is not this or that particular evil action--but a continued course of evil actions--which denominates a man wicked. Just so, it is not this or that particular holy act--but a continued course of holy actions--which denominates a man holy.

[b]Every man is--as his course is. If his course is holy--the man is holy. If his course is wicked--the man is wicked.

No man ought to conclude, because of some particular good actions--that his spiritual state is good.

No man ought to conclude, because of some particular sinful actions--that his spiritual state is bad.[/b]

A course of sinning is not consistent with a course of godliness. Though the needle of the seaman's compass may jog this way and that way--yet the bent of the needle will still be northward. Just so, though a Christian
may have his particular sinful joggings this way or that way--yet the bent of his heart will still be . . .
God-wards,
Christ-wards,
heaven-wards,
holiness-wards. [/i]







Oooooh, GO PATRICK!!!!

And to think I had you confused with a lady for a while, without checking. For some reason confused you with someone else - but blame my memory, please, not my heart. The heart works fine, even though the short term memory just won't put everything into longterm! My programming is good now, but my hardware needs Glorification!

Let it come soon!

Blessings,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/5/30 14:09Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re: Once Saved...Always Saved???

Quote:

GrannieAnnie wrote:
I love when this topic comes up and turns into a meeting of two minds.

I don't believe in UNconditional eternal security, as it's taught by some ... but the neat thing is that ... "the elect" will not lose their Salvation.

This is neat ~ Who are the elect ?

Those who GOD Foreknew from before the beginning - so to speak - that wouldn't 'fall away'.

He knows those which are His and who will "endure unto the end."




God does know who overcomes...He is all knowing, and He stands outside our timeline, knowing the end from the beginning.

But WE do not know, and dare not assume too much.

I know I speak with the Holy Spirit, or hear Jesus because what is said matches with the Bible. I also know enough to check what I hear against the Bible, and to watch for the Evil One, who would so much like to fool me. And he's good at it. I still fall into His traps for bits of time. I am in fear lest it lead me the wrong way. I do not fear that Jesus doesn't guard me...He keeps allowing me in His permissive will to fall into these little traps from time to time to perfect me. Then He convicts me through the Holy Spirit, I get back up on the path, and WE keep on going.

The Devil, however, is really good at twisting things, just a little, like this Once Saved, Always Saved idea.

Very sneaky of Lucifer. He tricks the unwary into delight in sin.

Yes, there are many who are wary, and there are many who are babes in Christ, and need careful teaching, lest they stray from the path while they know nothing.

And babes are forever perfected in Jesus...they don't know enough to stray, and Jesus' holiness is in them, shining brightly, and the Holy Spirit is in them, working.

I just don't want any of them taught that they can do bad stuff, and it's still okay, because Jesus loves us.

He does, and He hangs on a long, long time, far longer than one would think. But I don't want anyone taking chances.

Guarding your salvation faith with obedience is rather more to the point.

Blessings,

Forrest


_________________
Forrest Anderson

 2007/5/30 14:27Profile









 Re:

I know there are many different views on "WHO" are God's Elect. I wonder if we are not understanding what "elect" means in scripture. I personally believe we are elect, foreordained and predestined to *be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ*. When I see it from that perspective, and not God just picking and choosing randomly as some teach, it makes more sense. When I hear some teach they are the "elect", but do not believe in repentance, total surrender, or obedience, then I know that is not what is taught in the Bible...so I can eliminate that doctrine. The Church, I believe was elect and for-ordained from the foundation of the world. Those who have repented and totally surrendered their life and live obedience of Faith seem to have a deeper grasp that the Church has been called out of this world, and world system. Those as well have and know they are eternally secure In Christ.


:-)

 2007/5/30 15:21









 Re:

Quote:

Logic wrote:
Quote:
chiefosiners wrote:
Give me one verse in the bible that says we can loose our salvation.

What, don't my reasoning in the scipture persuade you? Or do you not hold to sound wisdom.

[b]2Peter 3:16[/b] [color=990000]as also in all his epistles, speaking in them concerning these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the unlearned and unsettled pervert, as also they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.
[b]:17[/b] Then beloved, you knowing beforehand, watch lest being led away by the error of the lawless you fall from your own steadfastne[/color]

And

[b]2Peter 2:1[/b] [color=990000]But false prophets were also among the people, as also false teachers will be among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, and [b]denying the Master who has bought[/b] them, bringing swift destruction on themselves.[/color]

Are you trying to tell me that your wise? Why do you think you have to persuade me? Gal.1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God?

I'll tell you this, you sir are a heretic.

 2007/5/30 16:47
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Jhn 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? Who's sound wisdom Logic?

Is this the word of God? 1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Did you really have a choice to be born? Did your parents ask you for your permission?
Did God ask your permission to rebirth you? All He ask is that you believe it. Then He did it.
Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on His name:

Jhn 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

"Not my will but yours", God.

Did not even Jesus learn obedience by this saying?

Jhn 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that [cometh] from God only?

Jhn 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

Finally: Jhn 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on Him whom He hath sent.

Who's work is it. Not ours, if you believe scripture. We are kept by the power of God that is in us, the is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

This is the word "Kept": Strong's Greek Dictionary
5432. phroureo
Search for G5432 in KJVSL
jrourew phroureo froo-reh'-o
from a compound of 4253 and 3708; to be a watcher in advance, i.e. to mount guard as a sentinel (post spies at gates); figuratively, to hem in, protect:--keep (with a garrison). Compare 5083.

The same as Job, the only way anything can come against us is by the permission of God to bring us to complete obedience and trust and rest and peace in Christ Jesus. Hbr 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Hbr 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

To obey Him we must be His, Spirit=Christ in you, Soul=The Holy Spirit teacher, body, dead or alive, exchanged for a spiritual body Like Jesus Christ by God the Father who raises the dead and changes the living.

In Christ: Phillip






_________________
Phillip

 2007/5/30 17:10Profile









 Re:

HI Forrest and Katy-Did,

Right on. We are secure "as we abide in Him".

The misuse of the name "Elect" is the 'abuse' of the verses that speak of the security of the Elect.

The Elect are again, those who God, through Foreknowledge knows, will be faithful unto the end.

They will endure and by their desire to press on and love Him by pleasing Him only, that will set them apart as those who loved not their lives to the death - Etc.

The abuse of the OSAS belief is what has caused many that I've seen where I live to live self-centered lives instead of Christocentric.

Thank you for both of your posts. I enjoyed them.

Phil 3:7-14

 2007/5/30 19:16
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
chiefosiners wrote:
Quote:
Me:
What, don't my reasoning in the scripture persuade you? Or do you not hold to sound wisdom.

Are you trying to tell me that your wise? Why do you think you have to persuade me? Gal.1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God?

I'll tell you this, you sir are a heretic.

Huh? whats wrong with wisdom?

I don't "have to persuade" you.

All I was asking was, didn't the things that were posed make sense. Weren't they logical? In what way did they not show that one could be deceived and fall away?

You asked a question that surprised me, I responded in wonder that, in light of the things posted, did not prove to you enough that you needed one more verse in the bible that says we can loose our salvation.

You have not even proved that one can [b]not[/b] be deceived and fall away.

Further more, you call me a heretic for wanting to persuade you, would you call the Apostle Paul a heretic also for doing so?
[b]Act 17:2[/b] [color=993300]And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days, [b]reasoned with them out of the scriptures[/b][/color]
[b]Act 18: 4[/b] [color=993300]And [b]he reasoned[/b] in the synagogue every sabbath, [b]and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks[/b].[/color]
[b]Act 18:19[/b] [color=993300]And he came to Ephesus, and he left those there. But he going into the synagogue, [b]he reasoned with the Jews[/b].[/color]
[b]Act 19:8[/b] [color=993300]And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, having [b]reasoned with them, and persuading[/b] concerning the things of the kingdom of God.[/color]
[b]Act 28:23[/b] [color=993300]And having appointed him a day, more came to him in the lodging, to whom he expounded, earnestly testifying the kingdom of God [b]and persuading them[/b] the things concerning Jesus, both from the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning until evening.[/color]

I could call you a heretic also for denying the plane truth that I presented along with the Scriptures that clearly show men denying the Master who has bought them.
Isn't it true that whosoever shall deny Jesus(the Master) before men, him will He also deny before His Father which is in heaven.Mat 10:33

 2007/5/30 19:17Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Logic wrote:
Quote:
chiefosiners wrote:
Quote:
Me:
What, don't my reasoning in the scripture persuade you? Or do you not hold to sound wisdom.

Are you trying to tell me that your wise? Why do you think you have to persuade me? Gal.1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God?

I'll tell you this, you sir are a heretic.

Huh? whats wrong with wisdom?

I don't "have to persuade" you.

All I was asking was, didn't the things that were posed make sense. Weren't they logical? In what way did they not show that one could be deceived and fall away?

You asked a question that surprised me, I responded in wonder that, in light of the things posted, did not prove to you enough that you needed one more verse in the bible that says we can loose our salvation.

You have not even proved that one can [b]not[/b] be deceived and fall away.

Further more, you call me a heretic for wanting to persuade you, would you call the Apostle Paul a heretic also for doing so?
[b]Act 17:2[/b] [color=993300]And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days, [b]reasoned with them out of the scriptures[/b][/color]
[b]Act 18: 4[/b] [color=993300]And [b]he reasoned[/b] in the synagogue every sabbath, [b]and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks[/b].[/color]
[b]Act 18:19[/b] [color=993300]And he came to Ephesus, and he left those there. But he going into the synagogue, [b]he reasoned with the Jews[/b].[/color]
[b]Act 19:8[/b] [color=993300]And he went into the synagogue, and spake boldly for the space of three months, having [b]reasoned with them, and persuading[/b] concerning the things of the kingdom of God.[/color]
[b]Act 28:23[/b] [color=993300]And having appointed him a day, more came to him in the lodging, to whom he expounded, earnestly testifying the kingdom of God [b]and persuading them[/b] the things concerning Jesus, both from the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning until evening.[/color]

I could call you a heretic also for denying the plane truth that I presented along with the Scriptures that clearly show men denying the Master who has bought them.
Isn't it true that whosoever shall deny Jesus(the Master) before men, him will He also deny before His Father which is in heaven.Mat 10:33

All I can say to you is, I pray you don't have to learn the way I did, not to blaspheme.

 2007/5/30 22:56
jimp
Member



Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481


 Re:

hi sin is what separates God and man... the first sin... if you gripe about any situation,such as traffic, health, brother moneygrubber, brother baddoctrine,being homeless, hungry,taxes you are in sin... whatsoever is not of faith is sin. the jews griped in the wilderness and did not enter because of their unbelief. if you call a brother a fool,heretic,etc you are saying that you do not approve of how God is working with this person and you are better.pride shall we continue or shall we rest in the finished work of the cross. jimp why do we keep eating of the same tree adam ate of? eat of the tree of life... Jesus

 2007/5/31 3:09Profile





©2002-2021 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy