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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Missouri

 Re:

hmmhmm wrote:

Quote:
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
to me this meens you can have your name writen in the book of life.... and that it can be 'blot' out to.



Take a look at this:

Psalm 69:28 (NASB), "May they be blotted out of the book of life And may they not be recorded with the righteous."

Who is the 'They'?

Verse 4: "Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; Those who would destroy me are powerful, being wrongfully my enemies; What I did not steal, I then have to restore."

Verse 12: "Those who sit in the gate talk about me, And I am the song of the drunkards."

Verse 18: "Oh draw near to my soul and redeem it; Ransom me because of my enemies!"

Verse 24: "Pour out Your indignation on them, And may Your burning anger overtake them."

Psalm 69 is a Messianic Psalm and the 'they' being referred to are enemies of the righteous. I find it very interesting that the Psalmist says to God 'blot them out of the book of life'.

Why were they there to begin with?

 2007/5/15 9:33Profile
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2676
Nottingham, England

 Re:

Doesn't Moses ask God to forgive the sin of Israel and if He would not to blot him out of the book which God has written? Exodus 32v32

God's reply was 'Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book'

Just more things to think about.

God bless.

 2007/5/15 9:45Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Doesn't Moses ask God to forgive the sin of Israel and if He would not to blot him out of the book which God has written? Exodus 32v32

God's reply was 'Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book



It gives the impression that everyone's name is in the book of life until...

 2007/5/15 9:51Profile









 Re: Things to think about?

Quote:
Doesn't Moses ask God to forgive the sin of Israel and if He would not to blot him out of the book which God has written? Exodus 32v32



Wasn't Israel, as a nation, under a different covenant than believers?(old or new testament)

Israel's covenant..that of works - "Do this and you shall live!

Eternal Abrahamic covenant...that of a Promise - "He who has the Son has Life"

 2007/5/15 9:54









 Re: Great point!

Quote:
It gives the impression that everyone's name is in the book of life until




Great point!


 2007/5/15 9:58
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7513
Mississippi

 Re:

Revelation gives us some interesting insights into the 'Book of Life".

Rev. 20:12: And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judge out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works." Apparently, there are numerous books and ONE of them is the book of life. The word "Blot" would suggest something that was written there, but now is being erased, smeared over, as another poster pointed out.

The greatest danger I see in this OSAS discussion occurs when one would hold to this position and then say they can live however they "want" to, including sin and that God will not hold him responcible, contrary to scriptures which declare that those who habitually sin will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. It is this doctrine which, IMHO, has done more to promote apostasy in this USA then anything I know.

Blessings,
ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2007/5/15 10:09Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I think you would agree that chastisment and wrath are two completely differnt things.



Obviously... that was kinda my point.

Krispy

 2007/5/15 10:13
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
The greatest danger I see in this OSAS discussion occurs when one would hold to this position and then say they can live however they "want" to, including sin and that God will not hold him responcible, contrary to scriptures which declare that those who habitually sin will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. It is this doctrine which, IMHO, has done more to promote apostasy in this USA then anything I know.



That is why I do not like to use the phrase 'Once Saved Always Saved'. It has been misunderstood in the modern church to mean: 'Say this prayer and you are right with God even if you show absolutely no fruit of regeneration.'

I prefer the phrase 'Perseverance of the Saints'. Those who are truly children of God will persevere to the end and show fruit of regeneration.

 2007/5/15 10:14Profile
PassingThru
Member



Joined: 2005/5/7
Posts: 175


 Re:

Krispy

Quote:

I believe if someone "falls away", then they were never truly saved to begin with.



That still leaves a conflict with the 'blotting out' scripture in Revelations and the statements in Jeremiah where God clearly changes his mind on a nation's destiny based on their decisions.

I think God gives us the freedom of choice, but foresees the choices we will make. I can 'foresee' what my daughter will do with a piece of chocolate, but her destiny doesn't force her to eat it. :-)

PassingThru

 2007/5/15 11:08Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1131
Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
That still leaves a conflict with the 'blotting out' scripture in Revelations and the statements in Jeremiah where God clearly changes his mind on a nation's destiny based on their decisions.



Based on my reading of the bible (see Psalm 69), I do not see a conflict.

Concerning Jeremiah, did God not know the nation would repent? God simply put forward a "do this and this will happen" and "do that and that will happen", but He knew the entire time what would happen.

Isaiah 46:9-10
"Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me, Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

 2007/5/15 11:26Profile





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