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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Do all Catholics go to Hell?

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 Re:

KripsyKrittr said

Quote:
I guess we can just chuck all of Paul's writings about being of sound doctrine... and all his warnings against false Christs and false doctrines and false teachers right out the window then.

God accepts everyone, regardless of what they believe! yahoo...

It would be great if that were true. However it is not. One who believes in Catholic teachings for their salvation is a lost soul. They will awaken in hell one day unless Christians warn them, and they heed the warning.



What "christian" emissaries will "we" send to the apostate catholic church? The traditionalists or the evangelicals? The Calvinists or the Armenians? The charasmatics or the cessasionists? The Pre-tribs, mid-tribs, post-tribs, or amillenialists?

Who has the right understanding of scripture?

"Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations. I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose that in which I delighted not." (ISAIAH 66:3-4)

"Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall decieve the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not." (MATT 24:23-26)

"... ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviciousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ." (JUDE:3-4)

"...let God be true, but every man a liar..." (ROM 3:4)

 2007/5/10 19:32
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

Quote:

Who has the right understanding of scripture?

Only One, God the Father conveyed by the Holy Spirit through the Life of Christ in the believer.

I know many X Catholic's who have embraced Christ and no longer attend the apostate Catholic organized religious man operated Church, which is not the Body of Christ His Church. I also know many who are in the Catholic Religion and are evangelizing Catholics with the good news of "Christ in them the Hope of Glory".

1Cr 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

Phl 1:15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:

Phl 1:16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:

Most of all even in this apostasy, Jesus Christ is preached. How many of us go to the Catholics and give them the truth of the Gospel of Paul instead of standing back and throwing rocks and condemning them to Hell.

Philippians 1:17-21 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.

Philippians 1:17-21 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death. For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.


"Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, "

Who is the supply of the believers in Christ? It is not the Catholic or any other organized religion, it's by the "supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ".

Let us praise God for the Catholic Church, for even in their apostasy Jesus Christ is Glorified by God through the Holy Spirit of bringing forth out of religion true believers, which He has been doing for a long time, to the Jew first and also to the Gentile.

Let us be ready when they come. We have the truth of "Christ in you the Hope of Glory" and it needs to be given to them that are without that God has sent to within the Body of Christ His Church.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/5/10 20:41Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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 Re:

Hello...

As an individual living in a predominantly Roman Catholic area, I can say with much certainty that many Catholics that I know do not understand (let alone practice) much of what is part of the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. Sure, they attend services, funerals, weddings, etc... But most of them do not know WHAT they believe -- or WHY they practice as they do.

I know many ex-Catholics who became believers while still attending the Roman Catholic Church. Quite a few of them continued to attend the Church for a while -- until prayer and study (over time) allowed them to comprehend the heresy of the Church. More times than not, they simply "figured out" that much of the customs and practices are extra-Biblical. This made them feel uncomfortable, and led them on a search for truth. Of course, this ultimately led them OUT of the Roman Church.

The initial question is puzzling:
[i]Do all Catholics go to Hell[/i]?

The answer is quite simple:
[u]ALL PEOPLE GO TO HELL[/u] -- except those who have placed their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ!

This includes Catholics, athiests, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses -- but also Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, etc... A person with a relationship with Christ will eventually realize and discern between the truth and error within the faith. I am not talking about debated doctrines (eternal security, tongues, the rapture, hair coverings, etc...), but the undeniable truths of the Body of Christ (repentance, faith, charity, baptism, etc... as is included in Hebrews 6:1-2).

We should be careful about approaching Catholics (or even individuals within other "pseudo-Christian" cults) with verbal animosity. We should rejoice with those who rejoice and comfortably share with those who claim to know and have a relationship with Christ. Yes, they may still "practice" customs that are part of the Roman cult. However, allow the Lord to guide your mouth -- and let it always be full of God's love and compassion. God himself will lead them to the right "watering hole" (Psalm 23).

:-)


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Christopher

 2007/5/10 22:03Profile
UniqueWebRev
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Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
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 Re:

Quote:

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:
Hello...

As an individual living in a predominantly Roman Catholic area, I can say with much certainty that many Catholics that I know do not understand (let alone practice) much of what is part of the doctrine of the Roman Catholic Church. Sure, they attend services, funerals, weddings, etc... But most of them do not know WHAT they believe -- or WHY they practice as they do....

We should be careful about approaching Catholics (or even individuals within other "pseudo-Christian" cults) with verbal animosity. We should rejoice with those who rejoice and comfortably share with those who claim to know and have a relationship with Christ. Yes, they may still "practice" customs that are part of the Roman cult. However, allow the Lord to guide your mouth -- and let it always be full of God's love and compassion. God himself will lead them to the right "watering hole" (Psalm 23).

:-)



Amen and Amen!!! If I can talk about Jesus to anyone, regardless of their titular denomination, and we can agree on the really crucial doctrines that put us in Jesus and Jesus in us, I refuse to make my dislike of their personal religious culture a barrier between us.

Yes, I know that often a simple word like grace or faith can be seen differently, but until I ask and discuss the basic salvation issues, Jesus as the Son of God, fully divine, fully human, begotten of Mary by the Holy Spirit, and my only means of redemption and salvation, how can I even tell? The label means nothing to me, except to be careful in making sure we are talking the same language.

I will respect their culture, having none of my own, and even enjoy it in their presence, knowing that their light and mine shine just as brightly to God.

And if their culture keeps them ensnared, I know whom to talk to about it - the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Blessings,

Forrest


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Forrest Anderson

 2007/5/10 23:25Profile
crsschk
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Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Do all Catholics go to Hell?

Quote:
Now I know on this forum there is an anti-Catholic bias that is painful for me to even deal with...



Think that may be just a perception brother, it does come up and a search through the forum archives would show a variety of discussions.

I think it is painful as well at times in manner over ... mandate, or perhaps both. It is one thing to 'know' what is taught by the construct that places everyone Catholic into it's fold, but I have made mentioned of this here before, I do not believe even the vast majority know just exactly what the Church construct actually holds to.

I didn't realize it until far down the road, well after being raised and brought up in this environment.

It really is a manifold subject and problem. One of the things I have picked up along the way is that to many a Catholic they would prefer to hold on to what is now an age old tradition that (needs it's own defining, but here I mean ... longevity)'we' as the 'other' persuasion have failed to convince them of being any better or having a better corner on the truth. Why? Because we are so diminished and divided amongst 'our' many denomination\abominations they would gladly 'take it for granted' and hold to what is now historical, 'traditional', why should they take our word for it? With so much confusion out there in Christendom it is not that difficult to see why there is a preference to hear it from the Pope, as a solitary, lone 'voice' than to the thousands of conflicting sentiments, arguments, strife and contention that [i]we[/i] show forth as the alternative. That doesn't make anything 'right', just factual, if my facts hold any weight.

The great problem with all this is to again [i]assume[/i] too much here, usually the cry will come forth that this necessitates an agreement or a compromise or similar sentiments. That doesn't have to be nor would I hold to it either. There is far too much that doesn't add up and is just flatly against scripture.

At the same time it is very, very difficult to start pronouncing sentence or even frame the question in such a fashion .... perhaps I might get off track here. To the question heading this post ...

No.

To even go back here a couple of posts and read through A.W. Pinks article on [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=15689&forum=34]Another Gospel[/url] would find our own Protestant Churches in a great delusion not any different, perhaps even in worse shape than the Catholic Church. Now saying this much also brings in the 'tit-for-tat' ideal that can be yet another assumption, it seemingly attempts to 'even the score' by way of comparison. Maybe what I want to draw off of it is that faith in the Lord Jesus has to be other than cerebral ascension (I know the majority of us already know this) and that fact is lost on the whole swath of denominations in far too large a great part. It is almost more peculiar that some of the other denominations aren't waylaid as much as the Catholic Church is ... not defending here.

Am hesitating somewhat here and usually do when this subject comes about. It is pretty personal here as well. I love and understand our brother Krispy very much and here it is where I have some problem with particular points that he (you brother, sorry, not talking around you here) would be so adamant about. It is just not that simple to pronounce judgment upon Catholics... I have to get a bit personal here so please bear with me in the right light and understanding. Fortunately am not emotionally charged in any way and knowing the tendencies of how things often get misconstrued here thought it worth pointing out, negating any assumptions or presumptions. My folks are\were life long Catholics. My father more so I would say in his dedication to what he believes and we haven't really had that many discussions about it ... 60 some odd years of being in this frame, think our sister Forrest touched on this well enough. My mother died just this past February and many a thought up to her death and through her death brought a lot of this matter to the fore. It is part of my testimony that it was my mother who I had found out after my new found life in the Lord that had been praying for me for who knows how long, it was a very striking 'revelation' of sorts, not so much that she was praying, but praying I would ... come back to the 'Church'? Well, it certainly didn't seem so, in fact it appeared to me she was just happy I came 'back' period... This is difficult to unravel adequately. The thing with my folks is they always thought we kids should make up our own minds about matters. And they honored that. At the same time even recent events would have me believe my father would much prefer me to be a Catholic, it's very much unsaid. so here is where the real punch comes in. My mother died as a "Catholic" ... Where is she presently? It is not a drawing question but a truthful asking outloud. I did ask it, wonder of it ... of course. In prayer up to and throughout her illness. Life doesn't always dish out things according to schedule, the Lord doesn't rather ... By the time there was any indication that she didn't have much time left here on this earth things picked up a very quick pace. Anything from 9 months to speculations of through the spring, before we knew it she had descended quite rapidly. All that to just say ... The same way she prayed me back to the Lord I prayed her into His hands, that the Lord Jesus Himself would save her (if there was any doubt) all of His own doing, just as He tracked me down on His own (not without seeds planted along the way). It wasn't a church, a preacher or even a 'witness' that brought me to my ultimate knees but He Himself. I have no doubt whatsoever He honored my request and saved my dear Ma whatever all the theological constructs and they are important! Somehow I wish to convey something far deeper and penetrating that is not compromised in any such fashion, is not giving way because of a special case or any such thing. I am speaking of a knowing past even my own understanding and not a wishful thinking to side step a very painful reality. I would have to face it regardless if it were so.

Maybe here I need to step through this a bit more quickly and mention just some random thoughts that have either been recent or mused on for some time. I sat through a 'Rosary Service' for my Ma. It was somewhat painful in a spiritual fashion. Sitting up front felt like a fish out of water and very much like every eye was peering through me. Here my mother is lying a few feet away in an open casket and the voices around me are repeating in repetition the Mother Mary's and it was all I could do to just silently pray both 'Forgive them for they know not what they do' as well as 'Forgive them for vain repetition' amongst other ... sighings and just ... 'Lord Jesus'. Here it began to dawn on me any number of things. I could humble myself and be silent, pray quietly and not feel some impulse to have to set everyone straight. Similar it was in the church itself. They afforded me the opportunity to speak and honor my mother and give the Lord glory, mentioning even the dangers of praying mothers ;-) Bit's of my testimony and ... one thing that has taken me quite a long time to process; Things that are caught rather than taught. Whatever the mistaken notions from our perspective one of the most subtle and profound is recalling my father going to 'mass' on all the special occasions, whatever they were as part of the Catholic calendar(?). He never forced or cajoled any of us on these, usually following on some week day, but went alone. That grew on me in latter years as I returned\and was truly converted to the Lord. It is the principle of the matter more than anything, the way he handled himself in this seemingly insignificant way, he bore no grudge and said little, it was his conviction. I found the old church I was raised in now setup quite differently than it used to be. Now the chairs are arranged in a circle with a much smaller 'altar' in the center and .... a small baptismal pool of sorts, something it appeared one could kneel in ... perhaps a 'half-dunk'? Even the priest was powerful in his delivery bringing forth scriptures I would never had thought of bringing forth for a funeral. From the handout; Isa 25:6,-7-9. Romans 8:31 35, 37-39 John 14:1-6 and a very good message on Lazarus, recall his point being that Jesus raised him from the dead for our sake as especially poignant in the way he preached it. A couple of my co-workers attended, both who I know not very well at all. One of Iranian descent that by his mere presence brought forth a quiet dignity that was difficult to ... explain away. They invited everyone to the communion and those not partaking they asked to fold their arms for a 'blessing' which he did (What are his beliefs? I do not know, but his manner was humbling). Real wine. If all this doesn't leave some squirming I would be surprised, it's still not all that easy to put it out here and not wonder at the misconceptions. What I did recognize again was that I could hold without wavering to the truths as I know and understand them and still humble myself in this situation, recognize some rather 'unpleasant facts' of those around me, not that they were unpleasant but that they put the question mark into what is too often too easy to come to conclusions about. In the foyer they had poster boards describing the martyrs in foreign countries, explaining the situations, asking for prayer. I will again go and sit next to my father at mass again in days ahead because I love him. So much for the picking up the pace...

Reading through "Tortured for Christ" once again in recent days brought even more difficulties into all this, depending on ones perspective. [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16110&forum=40&27]Amazing Testimony Of Richard Wurmbrand (Interview)[/url] Had me pick this up once again and read it through to it's conclusion. Would recommend it for all reasons that it was written for, but for this issue here to point out just what he had to say about Bishops and Catholics who had great faith, gifts and even those he felt [i]unworthy to untie there shoes[/i]. A different perspective to be gained for certain when persecution is at hand, suddenly a whole host of things begin to get down right serious and sincere.

Yesterday brought up [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16716&forum=48&0] Northern Ireland enters new power-sharing era[/url] that apparently just fell off the page as many an item does, but coming from the firey Ian Paisley ... Again, yet another perspective. Lastly, there are those saints that creep in here almost unaware that are of a Catholic persuasion at various points in that churches history that if they hadn't been marked out as so it would be impossible to attribute their denominational holding to them. There is far too much to consider to ... just not to do it. Perhaps that is all I really want to address.


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Mike Balog

 2007/5/10 23:37Profile
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 Re:

Just a few thoughts on the original question. I was thinking about Elijah back in 1Kings 19. He was a prophet to a dead kingdom. Israel had broken off from the other two tribes and were really an illegitimate kingdom, who never had a godly ruler. They had rejected the authority of God (a descendant of David would be upon the throne), and as a nation were utterly corrupt. At a point of discouragement, Elijah, a true prophet, basically tells the Lord that they're totally wicked, and that he is the only one left who really loves Him. The Lord responds to him by saying that there are still seven thousand that do love Him and have not bowed down to Baal.
I'm sure you see the parallels. The Roman Catholic institution is heretical, their doctrine is contradictory to the Word of God. The institution is dead and the leadership (who fully know these doctrines) are not to be excused, just as the Kings of the Northern tribes knew that they were going against the will of God. Likewise, those who follow them are heading toward judgment. As most of you know, Israel headed off into captivity hundreds of years earlier for their rebellion (My people will perish for lack of knowledge).
However, God's prophet was convinced that there was not a faithful person among the entire nation. Then God blew his mind by telling him that there were seven thousand. Now to be sure seven thousand seems like a large number, but I'm sure that it was a minuscule percentage of the population of the ten tribes. But there were at least some people who were not following the leading of the present king and his godless wife to worship Baal. Likewise there are people today who live within the outwardly perceivable borders of the Catholic Church, but inwardly are not serving the Catholic church, or it's leadership, but are serving the Living God.
My answer to the question based on these Scriptures? All inward Catholics, whose devotion is to that institution rather than Jesus, are going to hell. But not all outward Catholics are. The Judge of all the earth shall judge rightly, and He sees the heart and intent of man.
Incidentally, I would never send a baby Christian to the Catholic church to be fed and grow in the faith. They will be fed poison. But I know those who have been saved while in the Catholic faith, and even some who have tried to remain within the visible RCC to be a witness to those in darkness. Rarely do they meet with success...but Jeremiah didn't have alot either!

love in Jesus

 2007/5/12 13:50Profile
lightwalker
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Joined: 2007/4/27
Posts: 52
Missouri

 Re:

I know what I am going to say will raise some eyebrows, but I do not think having the right doctrines saves anyone. I believe that when that day comes there will be many suprises. Catholics and mormons and jehovah witnessness will be in the kingdom of God and many who held the ["right doctrines"] will be outside. It does not matter what a persons church holds to but what they do with what they know. I have known those who are in what we call cults and they shine with the love of Christ.What matters for salvation is a persons obedience to the revealed word of God. God says it and I believe it. And they turn to God for help in time of need. Holding the doctrines of demons they are the children of God. While others holding the doctrines of the "church" do nothing but outward forms and are the children of the devil. If you love me obey my commands... if we love Him we will seek to do his will, and in so doing will see our utter inability to do so and crying out to God will recieve His strength.. in humility and brokeness... and many have and someday we will be shocked to see some that we have condemnded enter the kingdom of heaven ahead of us.. I judge them by their fruits and those fruits are not ideas they hold to but the power of a new life..love, joy, peace, patience....


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Melody

 2007/5/16 18:36Profile





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