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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : what bibletranslation to get?

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 Re:

Quote:
I'd still like to know why there are these differences between the TR and the other manuscripts.



It's hard to answer this in a post... but I'll hit the hi-lites...

The Alexandrian Text, which the modern versions are based on, has it's roots in Alexandria, Egypt. Alexandria was known for it's intellect and education. It was also known as a major location for gnostics. Gnosticism, if you don't know what it is, is something you should try and understand.

At any rate, my research into this version debate seems to indicate that the Alexandrian Text is a mutation of what the Apostles wrote. There were many "gnostic gospels" that were circulating in those days, and the Apostles and the church fathers basically dismissed them. The recent discovery of the Gospel of Judas was one of them.

Well, most believe when Peter wrote: "...which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction." (2 Peter 3:16 ) he was referring to mainly gnostics, altho it also applies to many other as well.

So butchering scripture was going on even before the writing of the NT was completed.

There is a lot of history about how these manuscripts ended up in the Catholic Church's hands, and the TR seems to have been in the hands of the non-Catholic believers all down thru history. It's a fascinating history as well. Those who were proactive in the preservation of the TR were horribly persecuted by the RCC over a 1500 year period. In the 1500's the Reformer's Bibles were banned, burned, and the translators were murdered... by the RCC. William Tyndale is a hero of mine. His translation makes up 80% of the KJV NT. He was betrayed into the hands of the RCC, strangled and burned.

I don't know... a lot of blood was spilled to presernve what came to make up the Textus Receptus. It was spilled by the hands, ropes, blades and flames of those who held onto the Alexandrian Text.

I know this is not "proof" that the TR is more reliable... but if we are to believe that God preserved His Word to all generations, as He promised to do... which way do you think He preserved it? Murderers or martyrs?

You tell me...

Krispy

 2007/5/8 15:27
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
I know this is not "proof" that the TR is more reliable... but if we are to believe that God preserved His Word to all generations, as He promised to do...



My simple line of thinking is that we should believe what has been preserved, not what newly popped up. :-)

I'm probably oversimplifying things though.


_________________
Josh Parsley

 2007/5/8 15:35Profile
Warrior4Jah
Member



Joined: 2005/7/5
Posts: 382
The Netherlands

 Re:

Thank you for your reply Krispy! Time to reread early church history and about gnostics in 'the pilgrims church'.

So if I understand correctly, modern translations which are not based upon the TR have a higher risk incorperating texts manipulated by gnostics, because they have their oldest sources in Alexandria where gnosticism was hot?

[edit]Added commas at hopefully the right places)


_________________
Jonathan Veldhuis

 2007/5/8 15:54Profile









 Re:

Quote:
So if I understand correctly, modern translations which are not based upon the TR have a higher risk incorperating texts manipulated by gnostics, because they have their oldest sources in Alexandria where gnosticism was hot?



This is what I [i]believe[/i]. This is what my personal research has led to me to believe. Since I am a novice, and not an expert, I will stop just shy of making a rock solid statement like what you just said... because maybe someone here knows something that I dont.

Krispy

 2007/5/8 16:42









 Re:

Here is something else to comtemplate... Since 1881, when the first "modern version" arrived on the scene, there have been somewhere around 80 modern English versions (none of which were translations of the TR). Most of the 80 modern verions were copyrighted since 1960.

Why so many? If the main issue is making scripture easier to understand... then you would think after 80 tries, they would have accomplished the goal by now.

Also... would anyone here say that the church is now in a much better state than it was before 1881?

Exactly what have all these modern versions done for us? We are to be "fruit inspectors", right? So what is the fruit? There is more apostacy in the church than ever before... more compromise... more sin... more apathy...

I dont think we can blame the modern versions for [i]all[/i] the ills of the church, but if the these modern versions were to make scripture more accessable... why isnt the church revived and taking ground?

All of the real revivals in this country happened when the KJV reigned supreme as the Bible that most people read. Since WWII there have been no real revivals, at least not on a large scale.

I've posted here about the Cane Creek Revival that happened here in North Carolina last year. 4,000 people attended tents meetings, and about a thousand were baptised in the Cane Creek. It was to be a 2 week tent meeting, and lasted 3 months. What version does Ralph Sexton preach exclusively from? The KJV.

Krispy

 2007/5/8 17:05









 Re:

KrispyKrittr said

Quote:
Here is something else to comtemplate... Since 1881, when the first "modern version" arrived on the scene, there have been somewhere around 80 modern English versions (none of which were translations of the TR). Most of the 80 modern verions were copyrighted since 1960.

Why so many? If the main issue is making scripture easier to understand... then you would think after 80 tries, they would have accomplished the goal by now.

Also... would anyone here say that the church is now in a much better state than it was before 1881?

Exactly what have all these modern versions done for us? We are to be "fruit inspectors", right? So what is the fruit? There is more apostacy in the church than ever before... more compromise... more sin... more apathy...



Yo, Krisper,

What's your take on the Apocrypha (or Deuterocanonical) books then? Up till 1885 they were widely available and included in every Bible and quoted by many of the early church fathers.

Whaddya think?

 2007/5/8 17:45
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Meh, why have just one sword when you can have three or four of them?

Each one is good for cutting in different ways.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/5/8 18:00Profile









 Re:

Luv ya, Ian... but thats not addressing the real issues. That's "bumper sticker" theology! LOL

Krispy

 2007/5/8 18:02









 Re:

Corey... I answered your question in PM because I saw that before I saw this in the thread...

Go ahead and copy paste what I PM'd to you.

Thanx!

Krispy

 2007/5/8 18:03
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re:

Krispy, I spent a good portion of my free time today reading on this topic, i'm still not convinced either way.

I have been blessed by the NIV, and i've seen people using the NIV be touched by the Lord in incredible ways. I love the KJV, but this whole KJV-only thing seems incredibly snobby and divisive to me.

I understand that there are some passages in the NIV which could be better, or are not clear, or go against doctrine... there are passages in a lot of my favorite books that do also. But of those things that you mention, they make up less than 1% of the scripture in the NIV... you're throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

I'm studying missions... i've spoken with guys from Wycliffe an organizations that has translated the bible into over a thousand other languages and seen millions of people come to know the Lord.

Guess what, they're not using TR.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2007/5/8 18:06Profile





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