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PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

I think it's pretty clear Ray and Kirk didn't go on TV to win an intellectual debate. Ray saw an oppurtunity to witness the law and utilize his WOTM evangelism weaponry. He pretty much knew the two atheists wouldn't accept his scientific "evidence", and that his opponents would proceed to make Kirk and himself look like two fools in the eyes of the crowd.

I'll bet he's looking at that one person out in crowd - or in TV land - confident that God's Word won't return void. His third line of "evidence" told it all: "The greatest evidence of God's existence comes through personal experience." And then he explains how to "have" this experience.


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Paul Frederick West

 2007/5/9 23:24Profile
nowornever
Member



Joined: 2007/4/14
Posts: 3


 Re: ABC.com to air debate on God online

I love Ray and Kirk, but I am sorry that they felt it was necessary to debate these two athiest nationally.
Simply put "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen". If we could prove the existance of God then it would not require faith to believe. Having said that, I believe Gods word will not return to Him void.





 2007/5/9 23:43Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Seeing the intellectual lostness of Mr. Sapien, the blind zeal of his lady partner, the one lady in the audience who revealed such a desperate hopelessness before the specter of cancer...as well as the sneers of the audience in general...all of this led me to a sense of deep appreciation for the saints of God. In fact, though I had some initial fretting over the smirking unbelief of the athiests...these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them. (Jude 1:10) it soon gave way to a preoccupation with gratefulness to God for each of the saints...most of all those here at SI.

...I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world.

Yes, the Christian looks like a fool to the scoffer. I was Considering that without the grace given while we were yet sinners, we would still be scoffers too, profaning first in our hearts, and then convincing ourselves by our own corrupt deceits and imaginations, that there is no God.

Thinking of this did indeed remind me just how precious each saint in the Church is. In the world that is under the influence of the evil one, a child born of God under new influence, is no ordinary commodity. Every brother and sister in Christ is the result of a supernatural meddling into the life of a once hard, smug, and rebellous sinner.

Really, how a person comes to Christ is truly a work of God. When it comes right down to it, the regeneration of a heart can not be mapped out into an evangelistic method or predictable procedure by experts.

Creation may be described and measured by scientific laws but it's existance is not explained or repeatable by them. Yet men can become too proud to concede that the universe declares the glory of God..."The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth His handiwork" (Psalm 19:1). Just as miraculous are the believers who see Jesus and say Lord, I believe., and we should not be too proud to give God the glory for the faith that we are given. The New Man's heart is not at all the old man's heart repurposed, or a mere refurbished old thing...but a wholly new creation in Christ Jesus to testify of the glory and the love of God.

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained [prepared] that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10).

Blessings,

MC


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Mike Compton

 2007/5/10 0:31Profile
davidt
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Joined: 2006/5/21
Posts: 327


 Re: ABC.com to air debate on God online

Quote:
From what I saw of the debate, Ray and Kirk looked pretty bad. It's sad too, for some folks that are supposed to be so well versed in apologetics Ray and Kirk seem totally at loss for what more philosophically minded atheists argue. They seemed totally baffled as if they had never heard some of these arguments before. :(



I think that Ray and Kirk were under spiritual warfare. It is also hard because if you are not super sharp and mess up just a little and can't have quick clear answers they will turn unreasonably on you even if you later answer their questions. Though large evidences are given they will take little arguments and stand on them. And [b]yes i did think Ray's main object was not to win the atheist but to hit a wider audience.[/b]

Quote:
Whenever I see scenarios like this, I think of what would happen if a holy man filled with the Spirit like Charles Finney stepped to the podium and God the Holy Ghost showed up. It's happened before, you know. In one sweeping move, the entire atheist's argument is brought to utter shambles, the unbelievers and mockers fall on their faces and weep and wail for mercy.



I totally agree with you on this! However I also think we what Ray did is "Great!". I mean he was on national television and has faithfully preached for years and now he is where he is doing what he is doing. As Paul reasoned with Felix there was fear but not just a total weeping, it is not always about the anointing of the preacher but also the soil of the heart.

 2007/5/10 2:00Profile
UniqueWebRev
Member



Joined: 2007/2/9
Posts: 640
Southern California

 Re:

From Ray and Kirk's point of view, if they sowed one seed, or watered one sown, if a single soul who's heart had been made ready for God saw them get slammed for the Name of God, and His Reality, I think they would count the time well spent.

What I sorrow over is that the world now jumps at the chance to scoff at even the idea of God.

I know that this 'scoffing' means Jesus is waiting to be let loose by the Father, though both are in equal sorrow as anger at the unbelief in our world. And much as I would like for Jesus to come now, and prove to the unbelievers how foolish was their 'elite viewpoint', I know that the Father and Jesus would also rather that Ray and Kirk sow just one more seed, or water another. But it must have been painful for any Christian who watched.

As if Atheism were something to root for..how unutterably sad for those who did, and may never see God except at Judgment day, and then in agony from hell. How terribly, grossly, and painfully sad.

We need to pray for their eyes to be opened, in hope that God will make them an example of Christianity in triumph.

Blessings,

Forrest


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Forrest Anderson

 2007/5/10 2:00Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re:

Kirk and Ray did an amazing job!

Why do I say that? Because they opened their mouths and spoke the truth about Jesus Christ and God. The results are in God's hands. I am proud of their boldness. May we have more Christians be so bold!

 2007/5/10 11:01Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I think it's pretty clear Ray and Kirk didn't go on TV to win an intellectual debate. Ray saw an oppurtunity to witness the law and utilize his WOTM evangelism weaponry. He pretty much knew the two atheists wouldn't accept his scientific "evidence", and that his opponents would proceed to make Kirk and himself look like two fools in the eyes of the crowd.

I'll bet he's looking at that one person out in crowd - or in TV land - confident that God's Word won't return void. His third line of "evidence" told it all: "The greatest evidence of God's existence comes through personal experience." And then he explains how to "have" this experience.



Amen brother.

 2007/5/10 11:30Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
What the world needs is men full of resurrection power. I admire Ray Comfort much, but, sometimes I am sad that so much of what he does is simply canned stuff.

If any man speaks, let him speak as the oracle of God.



I had a brother come to me this AM stunned that it seemed they struggled like they did in the debate. He seemed a bit dejected by it. I looked at parts myself and concluded something similar to what KingJimmy is saying here. The world needs more than soundbite answers to things. There is more of a dynamic to witnessing than controlling the conversation through loaded questions intended to achieve a desired result. I am trying to be very respectful here as I believe in the work that they are doing and admire them both very much.

I also don't think the objective is to 'win an argument'. But we need to always be ready to give an answer to folks that meets them where they are. This requires unction, wisdom, and much study. there are two ways to learn:

1) Take notes and copy them onto the test
2) Come to understand the subject in such a way that you can defend the topic in public.

If you have a good grasp of the subject you can reason with folk. Sound bite answers do not work in the environment I am referring to. You have to have a good grasp of your subject. You need to know it through and through. You have to answer your own hard questions and in so doing get to know what others might want to know. [u]If[/u] they are interested in truth and you know your subject there is possibility for real and fruitful ministry.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/10 11:58Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re:

I praise the Lord that thousands of atheists have heard the truth of Jesus Christ.

Let us not forget that men are persuaded by the Spirit of God, not by the words of men.

 2007/5/10 12:02Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Quote:
If you have a good grasp of the subject you can reason with folk. Sound bite answers do not work in the environment I am referring to. You have to have a good grasp of your subject. You need to know it through and through. You have to answer your own hard questions and in so doing get to know what others might want to know.



I think this is one of the problems with so many that use "evidential apologetics." They may memorize a few isolated facts and hope that will hush the one they are talking with. It rarely ever does.

People do the same in theology. They think if they can find one isolated verse that shows their view, surely it will silence anyone who disagrees.

To try to defend or give an answer for your faith, you have to have it, and an understanding of it.

Pro 4:7 Wisdom [is] the principal thing; [therefore] get wisdom: [b]and with all thy getting get understanding.[/b]


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Josh Parsley

 2007/5/10 12:14Profile





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