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Discussion Forum : News and Current Events : ABC.com to air debate on God online

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KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

Not to mention that at this point they do exactly what the criticize Christians of doing - straying away from the scientific method.



Indeed, which is why I'm not a big fan of arguing with atheists about the existence of God to begin with. When Moses confronted Pharaoh and demanded in the name of God that Pharaoh let the Hebrew people go, Pharaoh's response was, "God who?" Moses didn't then go offer Pharaoh an apologetical explanation about who God was, and why Pharaoh wasn't God. Rather, He simply continued to proclaim God to Pharaoh, and demonstrated who God was.

Sadly, our apologetics these days is sadly lacking.


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Jimmy H

 2007/5/3 22:54Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

I would also add that, as it has been pointed out by many theologians, that the Scriptures never set about to prove the existence of God. Rather, they let God prove His own existence, and assert rather strongly time and time again that He will. For indeed, it is something only God can do.

Such is why I'm not overly excited about such a debate. I love Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron, and have much respect for the ministry the Lord has given them. But, unless this debate in some manner shows forth the power of God, I am not interested in it if it's merely going to set forth some tired old argument with a merely jargon loaded canned gospel presentation.


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Jimmy H

 2007/5/3 23:06Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re: ABC.com to air debate on God online

There is a fair amount of optimism here concerning this upcoming debate...I hope you all are right...reckon, I am a tad bit pessimistic. I have seen recordings of debates between Bob Harrington and Madelyn Murray O'Hare; Faye Wattleton (head of Planned Parenthood) vs. Randell Terry...and was NOT impressed. Mr. Terry was so emotional while Ms. Wattleton was as cool as a cucumber that he looked so ridiculous.

Oh, well...I just hope God will be honored and that their egos will have been crucified before the event..

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2007/5/4 23:31Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

KingJimmy wrote:
I understand and am truly sympathetic with such an approach. However, so far as I understand, they are only going on the air to prove through the scientific method that there is a God in a debate with atheists.



Have you ever heard Ray Comfort "prove through the scientific method that there is a God in a debate with atheists"? The extent of his "scientific method" are to point to a building, and compare a banana with a coke can. He merely sets up a rational explanation of the existence of God, and then all but ignores the comments of his opponent.

Considering that Ray teaches much on the futility of using apologetics in evangelism, I'm surprised at your reaction.

To quote Ray himself:
Quote:

The Bible warns us to avoid foolish questions because they start arguments (2 Timothy 2:23). Most of us have fallen into the trap of jumping at every objection to the gospel. However, these questions can often be arguments in disguise to sidetrack you from the “weightier matters of the Law.” [u]While apologetics (arguments for God’s existence, creation vs. evolution, etc.) are legitimate in evangelism, they should merely be “bait,” with the Law of God being the “hook” that brings the conviction of sin.[/u] Those who witness solely in the realm of apologetical argument may just get an intellectual decision rather than a repentant conversion. [u]The sinner may come to a point of acknowledging that the Bible is the Word of God and Jesus is Lord—but even the devil knows that.[/u] Always pull the sinner back to his responsibility before God on Judgment Day, as Jesus did in Luke 13:1–5.
(Cameron, K., & Comfort, R. (2004). The school of biblical evangelism : 101 lessons : How to share your faith simply, effectively, biblically-- the way Jesus did (236). Gainesville, Fla.: Bridge-Logos Publishers.)



In essence, Ray heard about two guys who started a movement that called for people to post a video on YouTube of themselves blaspheming the Holy Spirit. In return, they would receive a free copy of Hawkins' book "The God Delusion". After much weeping, he thought he'd take advantage of such an opportunity to get on TV to preach the gospel.

The big joke about Ray's atheist debates is that he actually loses the debate, in terms of the way that debates are rated. However, his goal is to knock that one chink in the armour of atheistic reasoning, whilst hammering their conscience with the Law.

For an example, just so you know that I'm not just making this up, check out [url=http://www.wayofthemaster.com/mp3/BCAD.zip]Atheist Debate: BC/AD[/url]. Ask yourself, who do you think won the debate?

If you don't want to download the audio, his [url=http://www.livingwaters.com/downloads/AtheistDebate.pdf]Debate outline can be found here[/url].


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2007/5/4 23:37Profile
SeanHobson
Member



Joined: 2005/12/9
Posts: 150
Cleveland, OH

 Re:

Quote:
[b]Is there any way to "tape" this live recording?[/b]I will be take finals in school when it's aired (2pm eastern) and I really don't want to be stuck with the edited, watered down version thats gonna be rebroadcasted on nightline. Any help?


_________________
Sean Hobson

 2007/5/7 21:03Profile
lovegrace
Member



Joined: 2006/8/12
Posts: 313


 Re:

K_Day, the theory that you heard was called the 'kalam arguement'. It was founded by Muslums I think.

I somewhat agree with KingJimmy about the methodology of Apologentics. I don't think that there are any Scriptural evidences to intelligencially convincing people of Christ.

I think ultimately there is needed revelation but God can use a debate but as far as I've seen, isn't something that He has used to ever start a revival.

I believe Apologentics should be for the believer and help unbelievers rethink their lives. Keep in mind, repentance is all about the thought-life. (Change the way of thinking)

Just my two cents, if it's worth anything.

 2007/5/7 22:23Profile









 Re:

Does anyone know if this is posted online anywhere? Was anyone able to watch it?

-K DAY

 2007/5/8 1:44









 Re:

Is anyone listening to this debate right now?

The entire debate will be streamed Wednesday, May 9, at 1:00 p.m. EDT ( 10:00 a.m. PST) on http://abcnews.go.com/nightline/, then again at 2:00 p.m. EDT (11:00 a.m. PST) on http://abcnews.go.com/abcnewsnow/, and an excerpt will be aired that night on ABC's Nightline.

 2007/5/9 13:24









 Re:

I just watched some clips of the debate. It makes me sick to my stomach. It is sad to see those atheists. They are so amazingly full of pride, especially the girl. She argues so arrogantly, and is constantly making stupid jokes and making fun of Christianity.

I am not really sure what the point of this is. Ray is an evangelist, not an expert at apologetics. It doesn't seem to have an evangelizing effect, but rather the effect of making Christians look stupid. The atheists are incoherent in their arguments as well...

I used to always read transcripts from Christian philosopher William Lane Craig who would debate the philosophy heads at prestigious universities and just make them look silly. Craig would be putting those atheists on their face.

 2007/5/9 15:28
lovegrace
Member



Joined: 2006/8/12
Posts: 313


 Re:

I watched the videos and out of what I saw, Kirk and Ray didn't do that great of a job. Good try on getting the gospel out there though.

I recommend :Ken Ham and Dr. Phil Fernandes

Dr. Phil is philosophical but for good reason. At first I didn't like it, but truly he gets to the root of the issue.

 2007/5/9 17:51Profile





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