| Poster | Thread |
| | Name dropping... poor way to discuss doctrine | | In discussing Calvinism with my dear brother Jay I noticed that he droppped a list of 15 or 20 theologians, pastors, etc who agreed with his position. While it's his right to do that, and I was NOT offended or upset... it made me wonder... "so what?"
Why do we put so much stock in the teachings and doctrines of men? Even if they are scriptural?
Shouldnt the Bible be our final authority?
I made a statement once that it didnt matter one bit what this one particular teacher thought... and I was called out for that. I offended the person I was discussing with. They got upset that I would just "dismiss" whoever it was they mentioned. Why?? I admire Spurgeon, but if he doesnt agree with scripture on some point, then I go with scripture.
Providing a list of teachers and theologians who agree with whatever position we're taking is a very poor way of trying to win a debate. I dont mean to single Jay out... he's my brother-in-arms... but this came up, and probably most everyone saw it anyway.
My point here is... [b]scripture[/b], not teachers or theologians, is to be our final authority on everything.
Krispy |
|  2007/4/25 15:51 | | iansmith
Member
Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL
| | Re: Name dropping... poor way to discuss doctrine | | Leonard Ravenhill once said... oh wait... nevermind.
_________________
Ian Smith
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| | 2007/4/25 16:00 | Profile |
| | Re: | | LOL... funny guy...
Krispy |
| | 2007/4/25 16:02 | | JaySaved
Member
Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri
| | Re: Name dropping... poor way to discuss doctrine | | Brother, scripture is my final authority. I hope you know that and I hope that is clear in my writings. If it is not then I must correct that. But I hope you know that scripture teaches us to imitate others who have shown an example of Christ. Paul says in:
1 Corinthians 11:1, "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ."
1 Corinthians 4:16, "Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me (Paul)."
Hebrews 6:12, "That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises."
Philippians 3:17, "Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample."
I do not go to men as my final authority, but I do however see their walk with God and I strive to imitate/follow it as they are showing forth the example of Christ.
I 'dropped' their names to show you and others that many Godly men who have an example of Christ-like love have believed in the doctrine of Calvinism. To call Calvinism a 'sect or heresy' is to call these men heretics. |
| | 2007/4/25 16:07 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
I do not go to men as my final authority, but I do however see their walk with God and I strive to imitate/follow it as they are showing forth the example of Christ.
I understand that completely... I know scripture is your final authority. Unfortunately you were the latest person to hand me a list of names, and it prompted this thread. Please understand, this is not meant to beat you up. I just thought this would make an interesting discussion.
Quote:
To call Calvinism a 'sect or heresy' is to call these men heretics
No, I dont think it does. I've been wrong at times, not understanding scripture completely. In fact, I'm confident I still hold beliefs that may not hold up in light of scripture. That doesnt make me a "heretic".
Krispy |
| | 2007/4/25 16:12 | | JaySaved
Member
Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri
| | Re: | | But do you understand the use of the verses I quoted? |
| | 2007/4/25 16:13 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Jay-
Excellent point. We are to imitate those who are strong and mature in the Lord and bringing the name of a man who is known to be Godly to both parties in a disagreement can provide a good reference.
This is a logical and quite useful practice imho.
In Christ - Jim |
| | 2007/4/25 16:14 | |
| | Re: | | Quote:
Excellent point. We are to imitate those who are strong and mature in the Lord and bringing the name of a man who is known to be Godly to both parties in a disagreement can provide a good reference.
I agree with this. My experience has been, however, that at times some folks have latched onto someone they think I admire (particularly Spurgeon) and attempt to show me that even my own "heroes" would disagree with me. Sort of like a "gotch-ya".
This is not an honest way to debate. It's using them as a weapon, and not a reference. It's the intention behind it.
(and this is NOT what Jay did)
Krispy |
| | 2007/4/25 16:16 | |
| | Re: Name dropping... poor way to discuss doctrine | | Quote:
Why do we put so much stock in the teachings and doctrines of men? Even if they are scriptural?
If Scripture is the final authority and it is, it was men who were moved by the holy Ghost to write those scriptures. We have to put some stock in the integrity of the men that wrote it. We have to trust God that He moved upon those men to carry out the task of writing these things. We quote from Paul extensively, yet Paul was a man and he claimed to receive revelation apart from the Apostles. Paul even personalized the gospel, "according to my gospel". He even gives advice on such things that he had not receive commandment from the LORD, yet we believe it to be true. Why? Because Pauls integrity as an Apostle to the gentiles was trustworthy. Even if he didn't receive commandment from the LORD, he was still qualified to do so.
Thats my half pence worth. ;-) |
| | 2007/4/25 16:32 | |
| | Re: | | Compliments said not...
But jimdied2sin did... Quote:
Excellent point. We are to imitate those who are strong and mature in the Lord and bringing the name of a man who is known to be Godly to both parties in a disagreement can provide a good reference.
Are we? I'm under the impression we're to follow Christ's example, not men's - regardless how "godly", "gifted", "pious", or "religious" they "seem".
No matter how well a man can preach, or how moving his message, or how many tears he sheds in public, or how his wife and kids smile around the congrgation, or how much he gives to foreign missions, etc... not one of us knows his home life or his personal relationship with God.
"...to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word... (for)... they (hypocrites) have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations." (ISAIAH 66:2-3)
God, and God alone, knows if you're that man or woman. Christ alone knows if you're "godly". |
| | 2007/4/25 17:10 | |
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