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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Are we born into sin?

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Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re: SIN - A RACE OF REBELS

Romans 6:16 ... you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness

We either serve Satan or God. Slaves to whom, the old man Satan or the new Man Christ. That is why Satan nature must die and Christ Nature must live. Born Again? Crucified with Christ?
If Adam chose Satan in whom he would believe a lie, Adam chose his nature. If we believe in Christ, whom ever believes has chosen a new Nature, and Christ is now our life in whom we serve. Without Christ all die unto death eternal. With Christ all die unto life eternal. Either, death life in Satan or Christ life unto eternal life in Christ. Satan life or God Life. "Choose this day whom you will serve", unto new birth in Christ or death life in Satan.

Paul says it clearly 146 times "in Christ", our life and new nature. Romans 6:16 ... you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness.

This is what leads up to whom we will serve:

Romans 6:1-14 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin. Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Christ in you 2, and In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/4/7 14:03Profile









 No one can repent if we are born sinners.

If we are born sinners how can we possibly repent?

I have never been convicted by the Holy Spirit of any sin that I did not choose. How about you?

I have never been convicted of being born or being human.

If I was born a sinner then how can God hold me personally responsible for sin?

I was born with brown hair and with brown eyes. I had no choice. I can not repent for anything that was not my choice.

If I was born a sinner then I can not be held responsible for it anymore then I could be held responsible for the color of my hair or eyes. I can not repent for being born into sin because it was not my choice.

 2007/4/7 15:02
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: No one can repent if we are born sinners.

Quote:

If we are born sinners how can we possibly repent?



We are born sinners and must be reborn as saints.

Your references to things such as eye color and what not are just silly. For eye color has nothing to do with the inborn fleshly desire to rebel against God. And this is why man must be born again, and is in need of a new heart. And this is why the prophets spoke time and time again of how man needed to have a circumcised heart, to have their polluted garments washed, and to be given a new spirit. For only when the heart was changed could the outward actions be changed.

For a bad tree produces bad fruit and a good tree produces good fruit. So either make the tree good and therefore its fruit good, or make the tree bad and therefore its fruit bad.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2007/4/7 15:39Profile









 Re:

Yes we all do need to be born again but because we have chosen to sin.

Isa 53:6; "All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on Him the iniquity of us all."

James 1:13-15; "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth He any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death."

The idea that we are born in sin is more silly then my references to things such as hair and eye color.

How can I repent of sin, if I have no choice about it?

 2007/4/7 16:41
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

How can I repent of sin, if I have no choice about it?



And it's exactly because one is "born that way" that one must be born again. Because one is born a sinner and loves to sin, it is imperative that one confesses and forsakes. Being born a sinner does not excuse one to freely sin, nor does it excuse one from the guilt of that sin.

You can only repent of your sin through the empowerment of God's word, that generates faith in an individual, that allows them to respond freely to the gift of God for salvation (Romans 10). Apart from the power of God's word that allows you to become a child of God, you are without the ability.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2007/4/7 17:23Profile
beenblake
Member



Joined: 2005/7/26
Posts: 524
Tennessee, USA

 Re: No one can repent if we are born sinners.

Quote:
If we are born sinners how can we possibly repent?



Exactly. We cannot. To repent means that we turn 180 degrees from our sin. We cannot do this. And so, we need Jesus to save us. We need to be baptized (cleansed by the Holy Spirit). Jesus preached, "Repent and be baptized." First, we need a desire to turn from sin. Then, we goto Jesus for salvation who then baptized us into His death and resurrection.

We do not choose sin. We choose Jesus. If we have sin in our life, the question is: will you choose Jesus to save you? Or will you try to save yourself? Will Jesus be your God, or will you try to be your own God?

Quote:
If I was born a sinner then how can God hold me personally responsible for sin?



Do you not see? That is why there is only one way to Hell. Either you believe in Jesus or you don't. It's that simple. You are held responsible for either accepting Jesus as Savior or not. That is all.

God doesn't hold you personally responsible for sin as you are thinking of it. He holds you personally responsible for believing in His Son or not. If you sincerely believe in Jesus, then Jesus will enter into you and deliver you from sin. You will be sinless. However, if you have any amount of sin in your life, this demonstrates a lack of faith in Jesus. You must place all your faith in Jesus that He is able to deliver you from sin right now.

You are convicted for sin because it shows that you are not obeying God's Word that says, "This is my son, listen to Him." Instead, you attempt to conquer sin without Jesus and this is displeasing to God.

I hope this helps,

In love,
Blake


_________________
Blake Kidney

 2007/4/7 18:27Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Blake wrote:

Quote:
Because they do not understand the true nature of what it means to believe in Jesus.



So then by what you have stated,is God at fault?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/4/7 20:05Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3708
Ca.

 Re:

We are either of our father the devil or we are of our Father God, by the work of Christ in us.
We cannot repent unto salvation, that takes God's revelation of Jesus Christ to the believer, then repentance and baptism in water to show what has already been done by God on the inside and the new birthing takes its path and Jesus Christ is the strength and power of that birth. The Holy Spirit is now in the believer, this is the convicting portion of our salvation and the teaching us of who we are in Christ. We are now free and able to repent and to do what God intended us to do before the foundation of the world was ever begun.

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Who is our yoke of bondage? It is our old father Satan. The old man is under his control and bondage. The new man, birthed by God the Father by the Christ that is in us is, "The liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free".

Free from what? Free from our old husband, who was Satan.

Romans 7:2-3 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.


Our old husband is dead and we are dead to him and sin. We are married to another Man, that is Christ Jesus, in whom we are His Bride, already married to Him, waiting for the great marriage supper of the Lamb.

Romans 8:1-3 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Dead to sin and Satan, alive unto God and in Christ, birthed anew unto a new creature. We are Christ ones, son's of God by the only begotten birthed in us, in the power of the Spirit of Christ and God the Father and the Holy Spirit. Total son's.

This is the old; Jhn 8:44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

This is the new: Jhn 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

Not only with but in: Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

No longer does Satan dwell in us but the Spirit of Christ who has made us children of God, son's.

Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2007/4/7 20:07Profile
rookie
Member



Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4807


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
The won't hear the truth of Christ being born again in them to set them free.



Is God not able to teach them the truth?

In Christ
Jeff



_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/4/7 20:08Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:

rowdy2 wrote:
Children are born into a world of sin, their mothers and fathers sin but they are with out sin. They rely on love.



Quote:
totallyHis wrote:
Another word for flesh is “self,”


Actualy, the Greek words for "flesh" & "self" are two difrent words.
flesh: Sarx or sarks
self: Ego

the Greek word for self is where psycology gets the word "eego" as in "some onr hurt your eego" or "That really bruised my ego"

Quote:
KingJimmy wrote:
Quote:
Sin is not a nature, sin is an act or error.

Romans 6:6, Romans 6:12, Romans 6:16 ...
Here sin is not just represented as mere acts of disobedience, it is represented as a nature. And we as believers can either present ourselves as slaves to our flesh's sinful nature, or we can present ourselves as slaves to God, as one's alive from the dead. Our old carnal "body of sin" has been crucified with Him, so that we could be freed from the chains of our old sin nature. Thus, we as believers are no longer bound to sin as a sinner is. For sinners do what they are: they sin.

[b]Romans 8:3[/b] [color=990000]For the Law being powerless, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and concerning sin, condemned sin in the flesh,[/color]
It is not our naure, but our flesh that is sinful.

[b]Romans 6:6[/b] [color=990000]knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of offence might be nullified, so that we no longer serve sin.[/color]
No where does it say that we crucify our nature, but we are to crucify our flesh.
[b]Galtians 5:24[/b] [color=990000]But the ones belonging to Christ crucified [b]the flesh[/b] with its passions and lusts.[/color]

If sin here is our nature, then verse :7 says that we have been justified from our very own nature, if it is our nature, how could God condenm us for being who we are?
God only condenms us for acts of sin.

Furthermore, all verse :6 says is that it is the "[b]body[/b]" that is offencive, and to serve "sin" would be the abstract term for all the offences that the flesh commits.

[b]Romans 6:12[/b] [color=990000]Then do not let sin reign in your mortal body, to obey it in its lusts.[/color]
All this is saying, is do not let wrong desires rule you so that you won't obey your flesh's wrongful passions.

[b]Romans 6:16[/b] [color=990000]Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey, whether you are slaves to sin[/color][disobedience][color=990000], which leads to death, or to [b]obedience[/b], which leads to righteousness?[/color]

Nothing about our nature, just the word "sin" that is a abstract word for a rwongful act; of wich we can distinguish the word as "disobedience" since we see the contrast to the word "sin as "obedience"

Quote:
KingJimmy wrote:
For eye color has nothing to do with the inborn fleshly desire to rebel against God. And this is why man must be born again, and is in need of a new heart.


Did Adam have an inborn desire to rebel against God?
If not, why do we have one for the reason we sin?

There is a story of scorpion and a frog.
The scorpion asked the frog for a ride on it's back across a river.
The frog asked, 'wont try to kill me"?
the scorpion knew that he would drown along the way if he stung the frog to kill it, so he said, "no, I promise I will not kill you"
So the frog agreed to take the scorpion across the river.
Halfway across the river, the frog suddenly felt a sharp sting in his back and, out of the corner of his eye, saw the scorpion remove his stinger from the frog's back.
"You fool!" croaked the frog, "Now we shall both die! Why on earth did you do that?"

The scorpion replied, "I could not help myself. [b]It is my nature.[/b]"

Man is not like that, our nature is not to sin uncontrolably or unable to help ourselves.
As we can help ourselves from sinning, only if we know Jesus (which is tho have eternal life).

That is why God only condemns man to hell for not choosing to Love His Son (to know Jesus is to love Him).
Condemnation by choise!
[b]Romans 5:19[/b] [color=990000]For as through the one man's disobedience, the many were made sinners[/color],[in like manner of choosing to disobey] [color=990000]so also through the obedience of the One the many shall be made righteous.[/color]],[in like manner of choosing to obedey]


The only reason man sins is because he does not know Jesus, therefore the affection of ones heart effects vidual choices that one makes.

The choice that you make will naturally follow your affection. Consequently, if you love yourself or the world more than God, one cannot consistently obey His Law.
Your decisions are [b]slave[/b] to your effections and inclinations so that you only do what you have favor towards(Romans 6:16).

 2007/4/7 21:56Profile





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